Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis

@randomradio , @Parthu
i have this question for long time... When SAMs and ADs are growing in fast paced in terms of reach and capability to shoot down the fighter jets(even the stealth ones)... What's the need and role of future fighter jets... Does it really needed for future warfare
ADs are not going to bombard enemy bases and engage fighter jets in the enemy airspace which in turn can bombard your own bases and ADs with AGMs
 
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ADs are not going to bombard enemy bases and engage fighter jets in the enemy airspace which in turn can bombard your own bases and ADs with AGMs

But the AD's range could be extended in such a way in all sectors with accuracy that it can harass the PAF on their own territory, just like that AWACS which was taken down 315km inside Pakistan.
 
But the AD's range could be extended in such a way in all sectors with accuracy that it can harass the PAF on their own territory, just like that AWACS which was taken down 315km inside Pakistan.
The report isn't verified yet but you'll still need jets to intercept enemy aircrafts because ADs won't be able intercept let's say 12 enemy aircrafts all at once especially with drones being used to saturate ADs. Of course the same AD that is intercepting jets won't be intercepting drones but still.
 
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The report isn't verified yet but you'll still need jets to intercept enemy aircrafts because ADs won't be able intercept let's say 12 enemy aircrafts all at once especially with drones being used to saturate ADs. Of course the same AD that is intercepting jets won't be intercepting drones but still.

You did not get what I said and yes you need jets but what I said is that, you need to extend the range of accurate interception inside Pakistan airspace because of BVR engagement and stand off weapons which can be launched without even entering Indian airspace.
 
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@randomradio , @Parthu
i have this question for long time... When SAMs and ADs are growing in fast paced in terms of reach and capability to shoot down the fighter jets(even the stealth ones)... What's the need and role of future fighter jets... Does it really needed for future warfare

It has always been the case ever since SAMs were invented. New aircraft are designed and new SAMs to beat new aircraft and the process repeats.

You start wars with a lot of SAMs and aircraft, you win some and you lose some, and the ones who accomplish their core objectives win the battle.
 
Depends if we managed to build true AI & there is nothing so far to say that we can't.... Science totally support it.
AI can never replace NI(natural intelligence), period. There will always be a human in the loop. Can't give machines 100% control. They'll never be 100% reliable. But that is not to deny that AI's role will become ever so important in the future.
 
AI can never replace NI(natural intelligence), period. There will always be a human in the loop. Can't give machines 100% control. They'll never be 100% reliable. But that is not to deny that AI's role will become ever so important in the future.
Humans are not 100% reliable, but we can sue them when they do something stupid! Machines already have 100% control when things happen too quickly for humans to make decisions in time. Take the Rafale's flight controls, for example: a human couldn't control canards.
 
Humans are not 100% reliable, but we can sue them when they do something stupid! Machines already have 100% control when things happen too quickly for humans to make decisions in time. Take the Rafale's flight controls, for example: a human couldn't control canards.
Reducing engines burden on pilot was also why FADEC made. For the foreseeable future the most potent mix will be manned unmanned teaming, using either one exclusively can cause errors or shortcomings.
 
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Humans are not 100% reliable, but we can sue them when they do something stupid! Machines already have 100% control when things happen too quickly for humans to make decisions in time. Take the Rafale's flight controls, for example: a human couldn't control canards.

You need a man-in-the-loop in the decision-making chain so he can be responsible for the decision made. You could think of it as an ethical responsibility rather than a core function to achieve mission objectives.

But yeah, grunt work like canards, processing data and figuring out the chaos will all go to machines, even roles where human limitations can hinder performance, like a 20G-capable dogfighter.
 
Humans are not 100% reliable, but we can sue them when they do something stupid! Machines already have 100% control when things happen too quickly for humans to make decisions in time. Take the Rafale's flight controls, for example: a human couldn't control canards.
The future will be NI aided with AI and not AI taking complete control over organic life. No thanks to Skynet;)
 
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We seem to lay inordinate emphasis on how western commentators see India , its position & actions in various spheres of life . It seems the urge for validation in spite of all that talk about de colonization hasn't gone away.

We could extend this line of thought to Operation Sindoor as well. Hence Tom Cooper & others on one side & CNN , NYT , Reuters etc on the other.

How about we take cognizance of our very own native brand of analysts who've been around & interacted with our armed forces & the security establishment at close quarters reporting on them in the public arena for decades ?!

Here's Sandeep Unnithan in a podcast for India Today interviewed by Dev Goswami on the performance of our IADS & related issues. Lots of reveals here like for instance the genesis of the entire program stems from the massive embarassment to the establishment resulting from the Purulia arms drop in the mid 1990s.

Or the fact that if Fauji Foundation has been probing our red lines since funding the Punjab & later the Kashmiri insurgency with facilitating bomb blasts in Mumbai in 1993 , there was a paradigm shift since 1998 when both India & Paxtan became N powers .

Paxtan began using its new found status as a N power to conduct a sustained campaign of sub conventional warfare constantly probing our red lines.

Things got so bad that in 2008 in the aftermath of the 26/11 when discussions were held in the security establishment on how to respond to it , ACM Fali Major revealed that when he asked for co ordinates for the IAF to target such camps in Paxtan , the MMS government couldn't come up with any for the espionage infrastructure we built in Paxtan was dismantled by another xutiya Gujral & the policy continued by ABV & later by MMS.

Finally it's only since 2014 we've seen movement on this matter with gradual calibrated escalation following every such incident from joint investigation in Pathankot to shallow incursions into PoK vide surgical strikes to air strikes within mainland Paxtan for the first time since 1971 in Balakot & 3 other sites to the present day air strikes in the very heart of Paxtan in Paxtani Punjab .

While Fauji Foundation was busy probing our red lines what went completely overlooked notably by Fauji Foundation itself was this government probing their red lines with calibrated sustained escalation following each terrorist outrage since 2014 which finally climaxed with an attack on Nur Khan & Sargodha Air Base which houses the C&C of the SPD of Fauji Foundation in charge of their N weapons & the attack on their N weapon storage facility in Kirana Hills followed by Modi declaring the next attack would directly invite retaliation on Fauji Foundation itself.

Must watch episode IMO !
 

We seem to lay inordinate emphasis on how western commentators see India , its position & actions in various spheres of life . It seems the urge for validation in spite of all that talk about de colonization hasn't gone away.

We could extend this line of thought to Operation Sindoor as well. Hence Tom Cooper & others on one side & CNN , NYT , Reuters etc on the other.

How about we take cognizance of our very own native brand of analysts who've been around & interacted with our armed forces & the security establishment at close quarters reporting on them in the public arena for decades ?!

Here's Sandeep Unnithan in a podcast for India Today interviewed by Dev Goswami on the performance of our IADS & related issues. Lots of reveals here like for instance the genesis of the entire program stems from the massive embarassment to the establishment resulting from the Purulia arms drop in the mid 1990s.

Or the fact that if Fauji Foundation has been probing our red lines since funding the Punjab & later the Kashmiri insurgency with facilitating bomb blasts in Mumbai in 1993 , there was a paradigm shift since 1998 when both India & Paxtan became N powers .

Paxtan began using its new found status as a N power to conduct a sustained campaign of sub conventional warfare constantly probing our red lines.

Things got so bad that in 2008 in the aftermath of the 26/11 when discussions were held in the security establishment on how to respond to it , ACM Fali Major revealed that when he asked for co ordinates for the IAF to target such camps in Paxtan , the MMS government couldn't come up with any for the espionage infrastructure we built in Paxtan was dismantled by another xutiya Gujral & the policy continued by ABV & later by MMS.

Finally it's only since 2014 we've seen movement on this matter with gradual calibrated escalation following every such incident from joint investigation in Pathankot to shallow incursions into PoK vide surgical strikes to air strikes within mainland Paxtan for the first time since 1971 in Balakot & 3 other sites to the present day air strikes in the very heart of Paxtan in Paxtani Punjab .

While Fauji Foundation was busy probing our red lines what went completely overlooked notably by Fauji Foundation itself was this government probing their red lines with calibrated sustained escalation following each terrorist outrage since 2014 which finally climaxed with an attack on Nur Khan & Sargodha Air Base which houses the C&C of the SPD of Fauji Foundation in charge of their N weapons & the attack on their N weapon storage facility in Kirana Hills followed by Modi declaring the next attack would directly invite retaliation on Fauji Foundation itself.

Must watch episode IMO !
All good and dandy, but clubbing ABV with likes of IK/MMS etc. is very painful to accept. Vajpayee was the best PM India will ever have, IMHO. Yes, he did make some mistakes but his good deeds outdo his mistakes, IMO. Modi ji is doing nothing but to continue the work of ABV after the 10 years of corrupt UPA rule. We should see Modi as an extension of ABV and his policies rather than saying Modi>>ABV in every way, IMO.
 
All good and dandy, but clubbing ABV with likes of IK/MMS etc. is very painful to accept. Vajpayee was the best PM India will ever have, IMHO. Yes, he did make some mistakes but his good deeds outdo his mistakes, IMO. Modi ji is doing nothing but to continue the work of ABV after the 10 years of corrupt UPA rule. We should see Modi as an extension of ABV and his policies rather than saying Modi>>ABV in every way, IMO.
It's not good for leaders to have blind spots. If being a peaceful lover to a fault & simultaneously being antagonistic to Sanatan values was the hallmark of a Nehru , ABV was guilty of the former. That to me is the crux of the issue apart from a dying need for leaving behind a legacy at any cost.

However I'd still give ABV the benefit of doubt in ways I'd never extend Nehru. He wanted peace , he went the extra mile & was stabbed in his back. That should've been reason to kick off the espionage project in Paxtan which Gujral shut down.

If B. Raman is to be believed he & a few others pleaded with Brajesh Mishra who told them he completely agreed with their PoV & that they shouldn't waste their time convincing him but save it for ABV who expressly refused resumption of such activities.

The Kandahar hijacking , fedayeen attack on the J&K assembly followed by the one on Parliament were all a direct result of such foolish experiments.

I've long held Modi did what he did by visiting Sharif at his residence for his grand daughter's wedding or the joint investigation in Pathankot deliberately for he knew his image as a hardcore Hindu nationalist preceded him.

Hence his decision to walk this path in spite of knowing where it'd lead was precisely to counter such talk as would've emerged if he went about what he did now in the aftermath of Pathankot itself. That's called being alive to an issue & not having blind spots.

If after living with the peacefuls since 13 centuries we haven't recognised what they're capable of given an opportunity , then I'm sorry to say the person in charge is an imbecile & needs to be kept as far from power as we keep Pappu now.