The Legacy 600s and older 145LRs are not militarized anyway. They are the same civilian versions with lower thrust engines. Waste of money to invest in new VIP platforms, it's better to buy second-hand 145s and modify those.
Airborne Early Warning Systems - A-50EI Phalcon, DRDO Netra AEW&C, DRDO AWACS
- Thread starter Ashwin
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The Legacy 600s and older 145LRs are not militarized anyway. They are the same civilian versions with lower thrust engines. Waste of money to invest in new VIP platforms, it's better to buy second-hand 145s and modify those.
we have gained & maintained a very good reputation.
Yeah. Time to stop being bakras.
Whatever comes after the Netra and current EW programs should be based on C-295 and MTA. Exception only for wide-body like A330. Or at least a business jet made in India, like Falcon and whatever Adani is planning.
Maybe Adani will build Praetors in India.
IAF is also planning to buy Bombardier Global 6500 for ISTAR
They are used for Global Eye as well
DRDO can consider this platform also and have Netra Mk1a with GaN radars
Falcon 8x can also be considered as its assembled at DRAL , Nagpur
Why this fixation with models that get discontinued and babu India wakes from sleep ( C-17 , ERJ 145 )
They are used for Global Eye as well
DRDO can consider this platform also and have Netra Mk1a with GaN radars
Falcon 8x can also be considered as its assembled at DRAL , Nagpur
Why this fixation with models that get discontinued and babu India wakes from sleep ( C-17 , ERJ 145 )
Because if you want to de-risk a program and keep humongous cost overruns & delays to a minimum, you need a platform that has been used in a AEW role before, there are not many commercial platforms across the world that have been converted into an AEW&C.
The Netra AAAU has never been integrated onto a Global 6000, so there could issues that crop up during integration and delay the program that is being seen as a quick win.
So despite the Global 6000 being used an AEW&C platform globally, it simply makes more sense to acquire ERJ-145 airframes for AEW conversion.
Also, it's public knowledge that Netra Mk1A will be equipped with a S-band GaN AAAU.
To add to what @Aniruddha has posted, UK chose the Global Express for Sentinel, Raytheon is offering the same thing to India, so DRDO has decided to go for the Global 6500, thereby maintaining the supply chain instead of going for a whole new thing while leveraging Bombardier's proven experience in this area.
No. The Brazilian AFs Ereiye is based on a militarized R-99 model derived from the EMB-145. This platform was further modified with additional APU, satcom and cabin config changes for the IAF. So its not the baseline civilian version.
Besides, the IAF already has a tender out for 4-6 new VVIP biz jets. These will likely replace the ageing BBJ and Legacy ac currently in service.
Government to procure business jets for defence dignitaries and chiefs of armed forces
Government seeks new business jets for defense leadership, following a tragic crash, to replace the aging fleet.
Sourcing used 145 airframes from the int'l market would be Embraer's headache. But given the recent supply chain issues affecting the aerospace sector, the cost of conversion could be substantially higher.
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The Legacy 600s and 145s I was referring to are the ones operational in India for VIP duties.
R-99 is a militarized version and not available anyway. There are less than 25 militarized versions available, so we have no choice but to buy and modernize civilian versions.
Besides, the IAF already has a tender out for 4-6 new VVIP biz jets. These will likely replace the ageing BBJ and Legacy ac currently in service.
Government to procure business jets for defence dignitaries and chiefs of armed forces
Government seeks new business jets for defense leadership, following a tragic crash, to replace the aging fleet.www.thehindu.com
Sourcing used 145 airframes from the int'l market would be Embraer's headache. But given the recent supply chain issues affecting the aerospace sector, the cost of conversion could be substantially higher.
This contract replaces the Legacy 600s. These are the smaller ERJ 135s, not suitable for AWACS. Plus over 20 years old already. We need 145 LR/XR models with the engine meant for XR.
All big defence deals from 114 MRFA to Su-57 to additional S-400s to German Subs will go through. Mark it.
So realistically the netra mk1a is unlikely to happen because the chances of getting a militarized EMB-145 are slim and converting a civillian one would take too much time and investment which defeats the purpose. Same with choosing the Praetor 600 or some other platform.
Maybe a side project? Rescale netra mk1a to fit on c-295 a la the erieye on the saab 2000? It's not as glamorous and it'll take longer but will be able to get a lot of aew mass quickly after testing.
We have no other option in current scenario. Because of our abeyance of IWT, war with Pak can't be ruled out along with China's opportunistic back-stab. So we need more Rafales, a 5th gen stop-gap in around 100 numbers(bare minimum); so Su-57 is imperative to counter J-35AE(and J-20). Thanks to last year's skirmish, we now know that Pakistan will target our civilian area with drones and missiles, so we need more S-400s to counter this plus China too. German Submarine deal is also locked and we won't back down.
Even during 2020-23, we continued with our defence moderinsation, which resulted in us whooping our Western neighbour convincingly. We will continue to do so even now during this oil & gas crisis.
Exactly. The IAF is yet to put out an RfP for the Mk1A airframes. So we won't know the exact ac model until the bids are opened.
Afaik, Legacy 600 is the executive jet variant of the ERJ 135 regional airliner, built around the same basic airframe.
In any case, Embraer will essentially be stripping down and remanufacturing the selected airframes to the Netra std including airframe, avionics, engine, mission suite, power supply, etc. Besides Netra Mk1 is certified for IFR which will carry over to the Mk1A airframes as well.
The cost of conversion may be higher though based on the scope of work.
I believe the program was delayed 'cause they were still hunting for airframes and started it after the airframes were found.
Check post 654, @Aniruddha points it out.
Using ERJ 145 saves time versus a new jet that will have to be built, converted, and then configured. The building bit takes 3 years, converting and configuring takes just 1-2 years. So a second-hand jet will become available in just 1-2 years for flight tests. At that point, it's better to just get the more capable Mk2s, has been my point all along.
Even the Legacy 135 model ac would do just fine. It can be retrofitted with larger fuel tanks, winglets and other modifications from larger 145XR/R-99 series birds.
Embraer to offer retrofit XR winglets on baseline models - FlightGlobal
Paul Lewis/WASHINGTON DC Embraer is planning to use developments in the extended range ERJ-145 XR to feed back into the baseline ERJ-145 model and the new Legacy executive jet version of the smaller ERJ-135. While modification of existing 50-seat jets to the full ERJ-145 XR configuration would...
How is the IAF ISTAR compared to RAF Sentinels , why did the IAF wake up after to many years for a need of an ISTAE and IN P-8 have to be used from Sikkim to Gujarat borders.
Even then why a tiny number like 3 aircrafts.
Are they not aware of the sheer size of force needed for Indian borders.
Meanwhile PAF is planning to make their Global 6000 a SOJ based on Turkish Hava SOJ
I see South Korea buying ELW 2085 from IAI mounted in Global 6500
We are anyways buying Global 6500 so this can be a parallel awacs progam and can by networked well into IACCS compared to Wedgetail or Global Eye
Netra mk1a seems to go nowhere and what is the point of commonality when its taking same time as Mk2
Even then why a tiny number like 3 aircrafts.
Are they not aware of the sheer size of force needed for Indian borders.
Meanwhile PAF is planning to make their Global 6000 a SOJ based on Turkish Hava SOJ
I see South Korea buying ELW 2085 from IAI mounted in Global 6500
We are anyways buying Global 6500 so this can be a parallel awacs progam and can by networked well into IACCS compared to Wedgetail or Global Eye
Netra mk1a seems to go nowhere and what is the point of commonality when its taking same time as Mk2
Even the Legacy 135 model ac would do just fine. It can be retrofitted with larger fuel tanks, winglets and other modifications from larger 145XR/R-99 series birds.
Embraer to offer retrofit XR winglets on baseline models - FlightGlobal
Paul Lewis/WASHINGTON DC Embraer is planning to use developments in the extended range ERJ-145 XR to feed back into the baseline ERJ-145 model and the new Legacy executive jet version of the smaller ERJ-135. While modification of existing 50-seat jets to the full ERJ-145 XR configuration would...www.flightglobal.com
Although, standardizing on G6500 makes sense, switching to a new platform now could push the Mk1A program back by many years.
If the Pakistanis were able to source 3 more Saab 2000 turboprops (out of production since 2000) in 2017, it shouldn't be too difficult for Embraer to find used ERJ 145s which stopped production only a few years ago, iirc. Problem is the IAF hasn't signed a contract yet.
The 3 ISTAR we were initially supposed to be getting from Raytheon likely would've been similar to the now retired RAF ASTOR. We could've probably acquired those birds from the Brits for 1/3rd the cost + refit. But the IAF is not known for being a smart buyer. Sadly, the birds have since been sold back to the US.
Good luck getting any foreign AEW system integrated onto IACCS as that requires exposing the software backend for modifications which no OEM will allow, no matter how many billion $$$$ you throw at them.
Buying an AEW platform that isn't integrated onto IACCS is a sub-optimal approach at best and may become a liability during conflict.
The RFP for 2nd hand Embrarer biz jets is already sent out to Embraer and now it's their problem to source 2nd hand airframes for modification, and they are getting paid handsomely for that.
Once the jets are acquired, modification, flight testing and certification isn't going to take any more than 2-4 years because it's an already proven platform that has been in IAF service for over a decade.
Not just the Sentinels, we could've also procured the relatively new C-130J-30 (12 of them, less than 20 yrs old when sold to B'desh) and the Albion class LPD (sold to Brazil). But yeah, Indian forces aren't known for capitalising on such opportunities.
It's not even remotely possible.Even the Legacy 135 model ac would do just fine. It can be retrofitted with larger fuel tanks, winglets and other modifications from larger 145XR/R-99 series birds.
Embraer to offer retrofit XR winglets on baseline models - FlightGlobal
Paul Lewis/WASHINGTON DC Embraer is planning to use developments in the extended range ERJ-145 XR to feed back into the baseline ERJ-145 model and the new Legacy executive jet version of the smaller ERJ-135. While modification of existing 50-seat jets to the full ERJ-145 XR configuration would...
Recertifying on a new platform is extremely time-consuming. It will take 3 to 4 years just for that.
Just go through technical presentations on AWACS development to have some idea. It's an extremely challenging task. The system custom build to fit on a platform which is purposefully modified by the OEM.
