AUKUS : US, UK and Australia forge military alliance to counter China

Ashwin said:
The US, UK and Australia are setting up a trilateral security partnership aimed at confronting China, which will include helping Australia to build nuclear-powered submarines.

The initiative, called Aukus, was announced jointly by President Joe Biden and prime ministers Boris Johnson and Scott Morrison, following US briefings which described the agreement as binding the three English-speaking countries together.

Boris Johnson, the UK prime minister, said they were “natural allies” even though “we may be separated geographically” and said the alliance would create “a new defence partnership and driving jobs and prosperity”.

US, UK and Australia forge military alliance to counter China | Aukus | The Guardian

Aukus partnership will enable Australia to have nuclear-powered submarines for the first time
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
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isnt there some thing called nuclear non-proliferation ? no not when done by the west.
This should also pave way for us for direct TT with russia for nuke subs instead of leases.
 
jetray said:
isnt there some thing called nuclear non-proliferation ? no not when done by the west.
This should also pave way for us for direct TT with russia for nuke subs instead of leases.
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The US will not provide the technology for the reactor or enrichment process.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
The first French Barracuda, which is an SSN, has been delivered to the French Navy, the others will follow, it is still an improvement of the French Navy. If you look at the price of conventional barracudas, It's a significant effort, 6 new generation SSNs.
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The Barracuda is just a replacement for the Rubis, it's the same numbers. And PANG is a replacement for CdG. There's no addition of capability. Even the original numbers of Horizon and FREMM were cut down by half.

Considering the size of the water bodies around France, even the current size of the MN is inadequate. With just 10 ships, if the CdG goes out with a 4-ship escort, MN will be left with only 2-3 ships at best for other missions, which is merely a task force.
 
randomradio said:
The Barracuda is just a replacement for the Rubis, it's the same numbers. And PANG is a replacement for CdG. There's no addition of capability. Even the original numbers of Horizon and FREMM were cut down by half.

Considering the size of the water bodies around France, even the current size of the MN is inadequate. With just 10 ships, if the CdG goes out with a 4-ship escort, MN will be left with only 2-3 ships at best for other missions, which is merely a task force.
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I Agree
But the CDG with a 4 ship escort is our task force.
The 6 SSNs are not a negligible force even if it is the same number as the Rubis, each Barracuda costs the same as an aircraft carrier
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
I Agree
But the CDG with a 4 ship escort is our task force.
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And once the CdG leaves to the Pacific, only 2-3 ships will be left to defend all of France, considering they are not necessary for supplying the CBG. It's more logical to believe, during wartime, France will keep the CdG in the Atlantic. It's just a one-ocean navy.

Picdelamirand-oil said:
The 6 SSNs are not a negligible force even if it is the same number as the Rubis, each Barracuda costs the same as an aircraft carrier
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I am not saying France is being cheap or anything. SSNs are naturally expensive. I'm saying there is no addition of numbers, when there's a whole new massive navy being born as we speak.

France is only replacing, not expanding.
 
randomradio said:
Germany is not wallowing in their guilt, it's just an excuse, they just don't wanna spend on the military since it takes away money from healthcare and other stuff. Japan has decided to change their mind quickly though.

As for the EU, I don't really care about them militarily speaking. Only France is a real military power, the others are nothing. But France is currently doing nothing in terms of expanding its navy, which shows there's no intent to challenge China.
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TBH I agree, Germany doesn't even maintain what equipment it has properly.

Macron has really thrown the teddy out of the pram though.

www.yahoo.com

France canceled an event celebrating US-French relations amid outrage over a scrapped submarine deal

A French official told The New York Times that under the circumstances, it would be "ridiculous" to go forward with the event.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

Perhaps we should send him a slice of cake.
 
Ashwin said:
So they are going for 8 SSNs to be build in South Australia.

On long term this is a threat to IN's primacy in the Indian Ocean Region. Our only clear advantage is gone.

Their SSNs will be more advanced from day one to whatever we build.

Global hawk, P8I, MH-60R, LRASM, Tomahawk, Sea Guardian, hypersonic missile. They got everything cutting edge.
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Well we are not the prime player in the IOR.
The biggest player in IOR is the combined forces 1.)US 7th fleet and 5th fleet.
2.)Indian Navy.
3.)PLAN if they ever want to power project into the IOR and they will soon surpass us when they have 4 AC's online and basically "out-fleet" everyone in the SCS.
4.)JMSDF.
We can very well buy the global hawks since we have all of the things you have mentioned.
What is wierd is how will this benefit the U.K because it looks like a way for the U.K wriggle inside quad. And the RN is a much more advanced navy in terms of power projection than both the IN and JMSDF even though smaller..
 
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Ashwin said:
So they are going for 8 SSNs to be build in South Australia.

On long term this is a threat to IN's primacy in the Indian Ocean Region. Our only clear advantage is gone.

Their SSNs will be more advanced from day one to whatever we build.

Global hawk, P8I, MH-60R, LRASM, Tomahawk, Sea Guardian, hypersonic missile. They got everything cutting edge.
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But with no SLBM or nukes they will always be defensive force unlike us.
 
Lolwa said:
Well we are not the prime player in the IOR.
The biggest player in IOR is the combined forces 1.)US 7th fleet and 5th fleet.
2.)Indian Navy.
3.)PLAN if they ever want to power project into the IOR and they will soon surpass us when they have 4 AC's online and basically "out-fleet" everyone in the SCS.
4.)JMSDF.
We can very well buy the global hawks since we have all of the things you have mentioned.
What is wierd is how will this benefit the U.K because it looks like a way for the U.K wriggle inside quad. And the RN is a much more advanced navy in terms of power projection than both the IN and JMSDF even though smaller..
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My comment was about the future. This procurement is in the future. It will take 15 years to acquire these submarines in some numbers for Australia. They are upgrading the collins class for the time being.

Geographically far power has its limitations which Australia does not. With a capable navy and multiple deep IO bases, we will become the net security provider for the region (infact, US india Pacific policy envisions this). Its not only about how much force you can bring in an area but you also need economic/ commercial influence. With the proximity, we obviously have more skin in the game here. We are have started distributing softloans and getting involved in infra projects. By that timeline, we should be reaching 4-5x per capita wealth economically.
sid4587 said:
But with no SLBM or nukes they will always be defensive force unlike us.
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That changed with the introduction of "Attack" submarines.
 
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1438998751918444547

E_ghmygXoAowYmW


:ROFLMAO:
 
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Gautam said:
Wait ! 4000 nmi in 0 days for SSK but 73 days for SSN ?

Its not time to reach the choke points. But how much time the sub can patrol at these points.
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Oh ya. sustained patrol on these points = total endurance - time to reach.
 
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BMD said:
TBH I agree, Germany doesn't even maintain what equipment it has properly.
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The German MO is simple. Buy stuff for jobs. Then buy only enough spares to keep those jobs going.

BMD said:
Macron has really thrown the teddy out of the pram though.

www.yahoo.com

France canceled an event celebrating US-French relations amid outrage over a scrapped submarine deal

A French official told The New York Times that under the circumstances, it would be "ridiculous" to go forward with the event.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

Perhaps we should send him a slice of cake.
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I wonder why France did not offer an SSN.
Gautam said:
Well this is escalating.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438951735280689156

The 4 nations involved are Western nations, long time treaty bound allies, similar cultures etc. This could've been better managed from all sides.
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The business deal was worth 10% of France's GDP after all.
 
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