Corvettes of Indian Navy : News and Discussions

[Ashwin]

The Indian Navy’s (IN) Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft (ASWSWC) project of 16 hulls will be split evenly between two shipbuilders, Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL) and Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE).

Each shipyard will build its own variant of a 700t waterjet-powered ASW corvette working to common IN-issued specifications. The ASWSWC is intended for coastal ASW missions, minelaying and maritime security operations within 200nm of the coastline.

While CSL revealed broad specifications of its variant earlier this year, details of GRSE’s ship emerged recently as it seeks vendors to perform basic design work and specialised engineering studies on the proposed design. Given their association with GRSE’s existing projects, Kockums/Saab, Naval Group and Fincantieri are likely contenders.

GRSE’s design has an overall length of 77m, beam of 10.5m and displaces about 750t. It has elements of the X-shaped hull form used in the Kamorta-class corvette.

CSL’s design is slightly shorter at 74m, and it has a beam of 10.5m and somewhat different topside arrangement with slab sides. Otherwise, performance figures and overall propulsion system configuration is similar to GRSE’s. Both have three diesel-driven waterjet units, a top speed of 25kt and range of 1,800nm at 14kt. They will be the biggest waterjet-powered vessels in the IN.

Combat systems include one ASW rocket launcher, two sets of torpedo tubes, small-calibre cannon, mine-laying rails, hull-mounted sonar and towed low-frequency variable-depth sonar. Given its ASW focus, signature management (particularly acoustic silencing) is expected to be a key feature.

An industry source familiar with the project noted that, while the IN would have preferred a common design, GRSE with its large in-house design team is ‘reluctant’ to do so and is pushing ahead with its own variant.

Earlier expectations from GRSE’s management for a contract signing by October did not materialise, but pre-production work is progressing.

Contractually, each shipbuilder is required to build and deliver eight hulls within 84 months. Delivery of the first hull is to be ‘within 42 months’ of contract signing, and subsequent hulls at six-monthly intervals.

Details of GRSE’s small anti-submarine corvette emerge - NWI - Naval Warfare - Shephard Media

 

[Ashwin]

GRSE Design:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1062472825951399936

 

[Milspec]

We have a 3300 Ton P28 Platform which is currently configured for ASW role and was pitched as a Light frigate and missile corvette. Do you think P28 can serve as a common platform for other roles in the Indian Navy? Given Bramhaputra class is close to being long in the tooth, and Godavari class on verge of decommissioning, do you guys think P28 platform can be configured as a light Frigate to replace both of these class. Are there any other potential application for the platform?
@randomradio @_Anonymous_ @Parthu @Ashwin

 

[randomradio]

We have a 3300 Ton P28 Platform which is currently configured for ASW role and was pitched as a Light frigate and missile corvette. Do you think P28 can serve as a common platform for other roles in the Indian Navy? Given Bramhaputra class is close to being long in the tooth, and Godavari class on verge of decommissioning, do you guys think P28 platform can be configured as a light Frigate to replace both of these class. Are there any other potential application for the platform?
@randomradio @_Anonymous_ @Parthu @Ashwin

More Kamorta class ships are likely to be built for the purpose of ASW. It's a 110m class ship, so it cannot take up the role of a frigate. It's going to stay a corvette. There is no space for long range air defence, it will only have short range air defence that's under development.

And we don't have the need for a light frigate. Rather the 2500T NGMV will take up that role.

It's too big for anything else.

 

[Milspec]

More Kamorta class ships are likely to be built for the purpose of ASW. It's a 110m class ship, so it cannot take up the role of a frigate. It's going to stay a corvette. There is no space for long range air defence, it will only have short range air defence that's under development.

And we don't have the need for a light frigate. Rather the 2500T NGMV will take up that role.

It's too big for anything else.

How big is the NGMV?

 

[randomradio]

How big is the NGMV?

I'm assuming it's 90-100m.

 

[Milspec]

I'm assuming it's 90-100m.

I didn't get that, a bigger ship would be unsuitable but a smaller NGMV would be more effective,
P28 in a guided missile frigate config will be pretty close to a La Fayette/formidable class system.

Also given P28 is already developed, the newer light frigates development time would be quicker.

Also whats replacing the tarantul class?

 

[Ashwin]

We have a 3300 Ton P28 Platform which is currently configured for ASW role and was pitched as a Light frigate and missile corvette. Do you think P28 can serve as a common platform for other roles in the Indian Navy? Given Bramhaputra class is close to being long in the tooth, and Godavari class on verge of decommissioning, do you guys think P28 platform can be configured as a light Frigate to replace both of these class. Are there any other potential application for the platform?
@randomradio @_Anonymous_ @Parthu @Ashwin

P28 was designed as 2800ton but they failed to meet it and now its overweight. Looks like IN has given up on the design. For all the three corvette requirement they choose different designs (NGMV is imported!).

 

[randomradio]

I didn't get that, a bigger ship would be unsuitable but a smaller NGMV would be more effective,
P28 in a guided missile frigate config will be pretty close to a La Fayette/formidable class system.

Also given P28 is already developed, the newer light frigates development time would be quicker.

The P28 is too big as a missile vessel. The smaller NGMV will be much more faster (35 knots) and manoeuvrable. The air defence will be the same.

Also whats replacing the tarantul class?

There's nothing else as of now. Instead we are going all in on 16 new shallow water ASW corvettes.

5-6 Tarantuls are expected to survive well into the next decade.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

We have a 3300 Ton P28 Platform which is currently configured for ASW role and was pitched as a Light frigate and missile corvette. Do you think P28 can serve as a common platform for other roles in the Indian Navy? Given Bramhaputra class is close to being long in the tooth, and Godavari class on verge of decommissioning, do you guys think P28 platform can be configured as a light Frigate to replace both of these class. Are there any other potential application for the platform?
@randomradio @_Anonymous_ @Parthu @Ashwin

Additional Talwars will surely be replacing the Godavari class. As for Brahmaputra, additional P28A surely will be a good enough replacement in ASW and AAW. While missile Corvettes planned could take up the AShW duties.

Lots of naval projects are planned like this, but all stuck due to one or another such reason.

 

[Parthu]

Additional Talwars will surely be replacing the Godavari class. As for Brahmaputra, additional P28A surely will be a good enough replacement in ASW and AAW. While missile Corvettes planned could take up the AShW duties.

Lots of naval projects are planned like this, but all stuck due to one or another such reason.

As far as I know, the P28A is pure conjecture. There is no such class in plans or in pipeline. There is no planned follow-on to the Kamortas, yet. Either way, the P28 is not really a competent AAW vessel. When it does receive its compliment of 16 SAM rounds they will only be sufficient for self-defence. It doesn't really have a great search radar either.

Right now the Navy has 11 new frigates and 29 new corvettes in the pipeline and all existing old frigates & corvettes/missile boats will be replaced by them in one way or another. Some changes in terms of roles performed by each class is to be expected.

16 brown water and 4 ocean-going ASW vessels are pretty sufficient. All 11 upcoming frigates as well as 13 upcoming corvettes will be capable of surface warfare, and at least 7 (ideally all 11 if the Shtil VLS SAMs are as good as advertised) frigates will be capable of AAW for fleet-defence i.e. they can work as escorts for carriers/task forces.

 

[R!cK]

We have a 3300 Ton P28 Platform which is currently configured for ASW role and was pitched as a Light frigate and missile corvette. Do you think P28 can serve as a common platform for other roles in the Indian Navy? Given Bramhaputra class is close to being long in the tooth, and Godavari class on verge of decommissioning, do you guys think P28 platform can be configured as a light Frigate to replace both of these class. Are there any other potential application for the platform?
@randomradio @_Anonymous_ @Parthu @Ashwin

It depends on how you define a Light Frigate. Present IN frigate configurations are listed below:

Heavy Frigates - Shivalik/P17A - Short/Medium/Long range air defense cover. Displacement over 6000 Tons. (Length = 140+)
Medium Frigates - Advanced/Talwar Class - Medium range air defense cover. Displacement over 4000 Tons (Length = 120+)
Light Frigates - Godavari/Brahmaputra Class - Short range air defense cover. Displacement over 3000 Tons (Effectively a corvette with Anti-Ship capability) Length = 120+

Compared to:

Type 54A of PLAN - Medium range air defense cover. Displacement over 4000 Tons (Length = 130+)
La Fayette Class - Medium range air defense (in future). Displacement over 3000 Tons (Length = 120+) - Currently very weak Anti Air Defense
Freedom Class - Short range air defense. Displacement over 3000 Tons (Length = 110+) - Currently very weak Anti Air Defense

So the concept of Light frigates is not very relevant considering the specs don't seem very different from a corvette apart from the anti ship capability. This is possibly why IN seems to focus only on Medium/Heavy class frigate configurations. A light frigate with short range SAM and limited Anti-Ship capabilities doesnt't bring much to the table, unless we design a longer version of P28 with SRSAM and inclined launchers for ASMs. Considering the fact we just bought the ToT for Advanced Talwar Class, It is expected we will only have Medium/Heavy class frigates inducted from now on. P28 and the NG Corvette class of 7 ships will primarily be geared towards short range air defense and ASW warfare with little to no Anti-ship capability.

@Milspec To be on point with your question, P28 is not long enough to include ASMs even in inclined launchers. At best they will be fitted with the new SRSAM listed for procurement. As @randomradio partially replied, we will need a 120-130m long ship to be an effective Frigate, and considering the pace at which our procurement/production happens, it makes more sense to arm it as a Medium class frigate like the Talwar class.

Some additional info: The designs for P28 were compromised and 2 staff from GRSE were caught few years back. The last 2 ships in the class had to undergo design changes during fabrication. IN had ever since decided not to continue with more P28 class corvettes and will focus on procurement of an entirely new design for the NG Corvette class. 7 ships of the class will be ordered.

Good Day!

 

[Milspec]

It depends on how you define a Light Frigate. Present IN frigate configurations are listed below:

Heavy Frigates - Shivalik/P17A - Short/Medium/Long range air defense cover. Displacement over 6000 Tons. (Length = 140+)
Medium Frigates - Advanced/Talwar Class - Medium range air defense cover. Displacement over 4000 Tons (Length = 120+)
Light Frigates - Godavari/Brahmaputra Class - Short range air defense cover. Displacement over 3000 Tons (Effectively a corvette with Anti-Ship capability) Length = 120+

Compared to:

Type 54A of PLAN - Medium range air defense cover. Displacement over 4000 Tons (Length = 130+)
La Fayette Class - Medium range air defense (in future). Displacement over 3000 Tons (Length = 120+) - Currently very weak Anti Air Defense
Freedom Class - Short range air defense. Displacement over 3000 Tons (Length = 110+) - Currently very weak Anti Air Defense

So the concept of Light frigates is not very relevant considering the specs don't seem very different from a corvette apart from the anti ship capability. This is possibly why IN seems to focus only on Medium/Heavy class frigate configurations. A light frigate with short range SAM and limited Anti-Ship capabilities doesnt't bring much to the table, unless we design a longer version of P28 with SRSAM and inclined launchers for ASMs. Considering the fact we just bought the ToT for Advanced Talwar Class, It is expected we will only have Medium/Heavy class frigates inducted from now on. P28 and the NG Corvette class of 7 ships will primarily be geared towards short range air defense and ASW warfare with little to no Anti-ship capability.

@Milspec To be on point with your question, P28 is not long enough to include ASMs even in inclined launchers. At best they will be fitted with the new SRSAM listed for procurement. As @randomradio partially replied, we will need a 120-130m long ship to be an effective Frigate, and considering the pace at which our procurement/production happens, it makes more sense to arm it as a Medium class frigate like the Talwar class.

Some additional info: The designs for P28 were compromised and 2 staff from GRSE were caught few years back. The last 2 ships in the class had to undergo design changes during fabrication. IN had ever since decided not to continue with more P28 class corvettes and will focus on procurement of an entirely new design for the NG Corvette class. 7 ships of the class will be ordered.

Good Day!

So pretty much P28 will be a no go. It looked like a nice platform so I was curious. ASW corvettes coming next seems to shallow water corvettes and much smaller, so looks like kamorta class ends with 4 ships.

 

[R!cK]

So pretty much P28 will be a no go. It looked like a nice platform so I was curious. ASW corvettes coming next seems to shallow water corvettes and much smaller, so looks like kamorta class ends with 4 ships.

P28A class with 7 intial units are in the pipeline for procurement. The SASW vessels will not be part of the blue water force. The blue water requirement will be fulfilled by the future next generation corvettes - P28A. These will be an entirely new design with hardly any similarity to the Karmota Class.

Interesting bits from the RFI:

‘Next Generation Corvettes’ capable of Offensive SSM Attack, Anti Submarine Warfare Operations, Local Naval Defence, MIO and VBSS Operations. The ships should have Low Radar, Acoustic, Magnetic, Visual and Infra Red Signatures and adequate NCO and communication capabilities.

The ship should have a complement of 21 officers and approx. 137 sailors.

Length -≤ 120m.

4000 NM at sustained economical speed, 1200 Nm at 25 Kn and sustain at sea for not less than 14 days (with 25% reserve fuel) without OTR at economical speed.

The ship should be fully capable to carry, stow and operate ALH/NUH and alternately a rotary UAV.

(a) Passive Detection System. An Infra Red Search and Track (IRST) system should be fitted onboard. The system should be integrated with all gun mounting and should have the facility for interfacing with CMS.
(b) Radars. The ship should be fitted with combination of one surface and air surveillance radar each for early warning and FCRs for target indication or one Multi-Function Surveillance and Threat Alert Radar for early warning and target indication.

(a) SSM Complex. The ship should carry a minimum of 08 SSMs.
(b) SAM System. The ship should be fitted with a SAM for providing credible near 360 degree AMD coverage to the ship. It should be able to engage the sea skimming missiles, flying 3-5 m
(c) MR Gun System. A gun with a stealth feature having range not less than 15 km and capability to carry out SU, AA and AMD engagements should be fitted. It should have the facility to be remotely operated using FCRs as well as EO (Electrical-Optical) sight.
(d) CIWS. The CIWS should both radar and EO (Electro-Optically) guided to double up as LIMO weapons. The placement of CIWS should be such that it provides near 360 degree AMD protection without requirement of course alteration.
(g) ASW Weapons/ Sensors. The following should be fitted onboard:- (i) Active Towed Array Sonar. (ii) Underwater Telephone. (iii) 2 X Light Weight Torpedo Launcher (03 Tubes per launcher) with FCS. (iv) Torpedo Decoy with FCS. (v) Torpedo for Helo. The shall be capable for storing light weight torpedoes for fitment on Helicopter.

Good Day!

 

[Parthu]

P28A class with 7 intial units are in the pipeline for procurement. The SASW vessels will not be part of the blue water force. The blue water requirement will be fulfilled by the future next generation corvettes - P28A. These will be an entirely new design with hardly any similarity to the Karmota Class.

If it's completely different to Kamorta class, then it won't be called P28A.

That's why I think its premature and misleading to call them P28A, its best to refer to them as simply NGC until the Navy gives it a Project number or a class-name. Even then I don't think they will be called P28A...the Project 28 was aimed at meeting a requirement for ocean-going ASW vessels. The NGCs are not dedicated ASW ships so they don't share any similarity in terms of role/purpose either. So no reason for them to be called P28 Alpha.

 

[randomradio]

So pretty much P28 will be a no go.

More follow-on ships after the Kamorta will be built. The IN is interested in a total of 12 ocean going corvettes for ASW eventually.

 

[Milspec]

I tnink it's time for us to explore common platforms for multiple applications, this system of building one off 3-5 ships needs to be done away with, we did the same with Shivalik, kamorta will be produced in limited numbers. Would it be possible to have common chasis for ASW corvettes and Medium frigates in 3000 ton class.

@randomradio can one of the OPV platforms be utilized as a replacement for Tarantul class Fast Attack missile boats.

 

[randomradio]

I tnink it's time for us to explore common platforms for multiple applications, this system of building one off 3-5 ships needs to be done away with, we did the same with Shivalik, kamorta will be produced in limited numbers. Would it be possible to have common chasis for ASW corvettes and Medium frigates in 3000 ton class.

We are actually building the same ship in multiple batches. For example, P-15, P-15A and P-15B share the same hull and propulsion system. That's 10 ships among them. Same with P-17 and P-17A, 11 ships there. Only the superstructure, sensors and weapons are different.

@randomradio can one of the OPV platforms be utilized as a replacement for Tarantul class Fast Attack missile boats.

I'm not sure if the IN plans to get ships of that size anymore.

If we are going for such ships, I'd like to see us designing something like the Skjold class, with a catamaran hull meant for high speed and with internal bays for SSMs. But I don't expect the IN to go for ships that do not have a proper two tier air defence shield.

 

[Ashwin]

P28A class with 7 intial units are in the pipeline for procurement. The SASW vessels will not be part of the blue water force. The blue water requirement will be fulfilled by the future next generation corvettes - P28A. These will be an entirely new design with hardly any similarity to the Karmota Class.

Interesting bits from the RFI:

‘Next Generation Corvettes’ capable of Offensive SSM Attack, Anti Submarine Warfare Operations, Local Naval Defence, MIO and VBSS Operations. The ships should have Low Radar, Acoustic, Magnetic, Visual and Infra Red Signatures and adequate NCO and communication capabilities.

The ship should have a complement of 21 officers and approx. 137 sailors.

Length -≤ 120m.

4000 NM at sustained economical speed, 1200 Nm at 25 Kn and sustain at sea for not less than 14 days (with 25% reserve fuel) without OTR at economical speed.

The ship should be fully capable to carry, stow and operate ALH/NUH and alternately a rotary UAV.

(a) Passive Detection System. An Infra Red Search and Track (IRST) system should be fitted onboard. The system should be integrated with all gun mounting and should have the facility for interfacing with CMS.
(b) Radars. The ship should be fitted with combination of one surface and air surveillance radar each for early warning and FCRs for target indication or one Multi-Function Surveillance and Threat Alert Radar for early warning and target indication.

(a) SSM Complex. The ship should carry a minimum of 08 SSMs.
(b) SAM System. The ship should be fitted with a SAM for providing credible near 360 degree AMD coverage to the ship. It should be able to engage the sea skimming missiles, flying 3-5 m
(c) MR Gun System. A gun with a stealth feature having range not less than 15 km and capability to carry out SU, AA and AMD engagements should be fitted. It should have the facility to be remotely operated using FCRs as well as EO (Electrical-Optical) sight.
(d) CIWS. The CIWS should both radar and EO (Electro-Optically) guided to double up as LIMO weapons. The placement of CIWS should be such that it provides near 360 degree AMD protection without requirement of course alteration.
(g) ASW Weapons/ Sensors. The following should be fitted onboard:- (i) Active Towed Array Sonar. (ii) Underwater Telephone. (iii) 2 X Light Weight Torpedo Launcher (03 Tubes per launcher) with FCS. (iv) Torpedo Decoy with FCS. (v) Torpedo for Helo. The shall be capable for storing light weight torpedoes for fitment on Helicopter.

Good Day!

This has nothing to do with P28.

Some additional info: The designs for P28 were compromised and 2 staff from GRSE were caught few years back. The last 2 ships in the class had to undergo design changes during fabrication. IN had ever since decided not to continue with more P28 class corvettes and will focus on procurement of an entirely new design for the NG Corvette class. 7 ships of the class will be ordered.

Don't agree. There is nothing can be compromised to abandon future development on a corvette. Last ship design modified because it was overweight and the ship was not able to fulfil requirements like speed, endurance etc.

 

[Gautam]

INS Kora(P61) decides to go full submarine. The hull has almost completely disappeared.

Did some reading on the INS Kora. They are often considered "pocket Destroyers" of the IN. The Kora class corvettes carry 16 Kh-35 AShM. Even most of the frigates around the world are carrying 8 AShMs.

Granted, the K-35s are not exactly state of the art, but still, 16 missiles. That's ludicrous.

On a side note, can't these launchers be replaced by Brahmos inclined launchers from L&T much like how the Delhi class are getting their launchers replaced ?