NGMVs is designed to continue the tradition of Operation Trident to set ablaze Karachi. Considering the size of the ship, I was expecting it to be armed with NASM-MR. It would be great if they could fit Brahmos-ER.
Corvettes of Indian Navy : News and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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What would a NGMV would even achieve a 8 Su-30 armed with Brahmos or Land Based Brahmos don't? Its not like as if Pakistan is half way across the globe? I don't understand the logic of this based on some archaic decades old back where we achieved some success, it would work now? If this thing had some 32 Brahmos then it would make sense since it would be a massive firepower. It would be like NAMICA, where some actually smart people in army found out that after firing all Missiles it would be a sitting duck and useless. They better build more P-17 frigates even 1 per 2 of these in the budget allocated.
It seems Navy is still struck in archaic narrow thinking of replacing each older class without thinking broader picture of what each class fits in broader battlefield. It literally doesn't make any sense to haul puny 8 Brahmos on such costly vessel thinking that 8 could do some shit. What Navy needs to do is sit down and without consideration of what classes they have and about their future replacements, they need to think what kind of classes they actually require in broader battle picture.
Navy still has a long way to go on to shed its deficiencies even though we may praise it. I actually defend Navy when it comes to decision of Aircraft Carriers despite all the "Aircraft Carrier Obsolete by Hypersonics" because it is actually the best way to conduct ASuW. But this entire NGMV including the NGC feels like extreme inefficient usage of money.
I agree with you but IN is not really modernizing itself keeping just Pakistan in mind. China is also on their minds. A vessel like NGMV is an outright offensive weapon that can be sort like a secret weapon. A few of these in the ANC (Andaman command) will be a great booster to us. Considering Chinese vessels will try to keep a blockade of the Malacca Straits free, these NGMVs can hit and return without being caught.
Here's the thing, before Chinese navy attacks, it saturates the area with chinese fishing trawlers which are capable of being armed. You either deter them with your own armed fishing trawler or you look for a cheap weapon which can attack such a fishing trawler fleet. Brahmos is not the answer. it's too expensive and cumbersome. we need a small missile boat that can hit these targets (the fishing trawlers) and deter them from coming closer.
Can the above mentioned 1400 ton something design cater to the requirements which were mentioned in rfi/RFP?
Personally I feel if the ships are capable and cheap, we can churn out much more. 6 for East and 6 for West atleast.
I know the Mission, its sounds logical and its a must. There is definitely a need for a Armed Asset to fire against Chinese ships inside Strait of Malacca and such asset need to have the Impulse- able to fire and move fast. But I just have one question- Are these NGMV and NGC truly the best bang for buck. Are we not able to think beyond these class based replacements into thinking what other kind of assets are able to achieve the goal with less resources?
If the goal is Hit&Run, then Rapid Dragon type Cargo Aircraft whether Boeing GlobeMaster or upcoming MTA armed with 4 Brahmos in a container that can be dropped of is "Faster" in terms of retaliation. I know a Brahmos Coastal Batteries lack range. Coastal Batteries from Mainland can't reach beyond 2000Km range at Malacca or Andaman but Andaman Based Batteries can reach the required range but it is always best to field Multiple ways of delivering the payload against the target. A Andaman based Batteries are not alone enough and has the least survival capability as they at at maximum risk of being bombarded before or after. So, to negate that lack of movement of Coastal Batteries, we want a fast movable asset. Now the question is would this NGMV give us the capability necessary to do the task or more fundamentally is it worth the returns?
Iam yet to be convinced by any other member not only in this forum but also on others, all they sprout is some vague reasoning that doesn't sound logical.
If you want your payload to be delivered fast, then Su-30 and Transport based Rapid Dragon like System are very fast. The logic of Aircraft being less survivable is nonsense. If our enemy has capability to neutralize a flying asset in Indian Ocean, then sure he has more than enough capability to neutralize a sitting duck on Ocean. A Aircraft/Transport Plane is more survivable than a NGMV. They can get 10 Su-30s for entire NGMV program.
If one want your payload to be delivered while you disappear aka Stealth then get a S4 modified into SSGN, afterall S4 has 8 VLS tubes and if each can be armed with 3x K-15 then a lesser diameter brahmos can be armed in 3 to 4x per tube giving us 24 to 32 which is equal to 6 NGMV's total payload add on to that the Submarine can vanish later. They can get another 1 or even 2 if we go by wikipedia figures of Arihant Price.
The Survivability of Hit&Run is in the order of Submarine Launched > Air Launched > Ship Launched, and in each case, assets the enemy need to identify-neutralize prematurely and in case retaliate postmaturely is larger and more resource intensive in former than latter. Its like we are choosing the worst choice.
And finally after all the rant, if we choose a ship, then atleast spend it on like more Nilgiris armed with 16x Brahmos individually and we can get 2 Nilgiris for 6 NGMVs. They are more survivable, only 3 knots slower than required NGMV 35 knots speed which itself is fast enough, has better radar and Self-Defense, can actually be more usable than NGMVs for all of the time.
ASuW is platform agnostic unlike where we need Specialized Ships for ASW or AAW. I don't know why for a aspiring Navy to even splurge on NGMVs with archaic thinking. Still even for Ship based platforms, they need to know where the enemy is which again requires lot of assets to field and find the area they need to fire, its not like the NGMV would find itself firing on PLAN assets within horizon.
You have littoral combat ships (the US LCS is overkill) and you have ocean-going ships. NGMV and NCG are needed to strike targets of opportunity and defend the coast while allowing the bigger DDG/FFG to go on the offensive.
It's a light-medium-heavy spectrum, just like LCA, Rafale and MKI in the IAF.
If anything, we should consider developing a modular/containerized radar+ weapons fit for the upcoming NOPV and Saryu classes too or we'll have to jugaad land-based SAMs onto their heli-decks like the Russians have been forced to do with their Karkurt class corvettes.
It's a light-medium-heavy spectrum, just like LCA, Rafale and MKI in the IAF.
If anything, we should consider developing a modular/containerized radar+ weapons fit for the upcoming NOPV and Saryu classes too or we'll have to jugaad land-based SAMs onto their heli-decks like the Russians have been forced to do with their Karkurt class corvettes.
NGOPV serve special purpose. They can visit those places where warships with heavy weaponry are not allowed.
My only doubt with this design is the missiles in the middle of the deck don't seem to be Brahmos. Won't they be too big to place in middle? Either it is NASM-MR or GlideFire but even if it comes out to Brahmos then also no issue.
I think I get your point. Let me say what I think.
The NGMV will be a secret weapon when there is an option to launch a sneak attack and come back. The chances of survival of the NGMV is moderately high because it doesn't show up as a flotilla on the radar of the enemy. If you use a Su-30 with 1 single brahmos, it will attract the air defence of the enemy AND it can carry a single missile only. The NGMV has the option of firing multiple missiles. The NGMV can scoot ahead, release it's missiles and quickly come back to safe waters defended by a larger flotilla.
Same with the submarines. It will have to be diverted from it's original duty. We don't have many submarines. Not really a great idea.
The real argument is of costs. Take a Su-30 with a single brahmos, a submarine that has to leave its underwater job to go attack, and a NGMV with 8 brahmos'. which one is less costly to operate ? which one can fit it the existing battle plans. I think we do have space for NGMV in our battleplans.
What will be the best option ? Autonomous or uncrewed missile vessels. It literally will be a great option for attacking and getting back. But that is something for the future. I can bet that China is working on something like that.
If sailing solo, a lightly-armed OPV can be an easy target for the Houthis of the world. The Saryu class has CIWS+76mm but has no air surviellance radar.
Multi-mission modules are trending these days among navies around the world. If we could come up with a roll-on, roll-off containerized module for air defence and anti-ship weapons (a standard ISO container with sliding roof for an extendable radar mast and 2X4 launchers would do just fine), our OPVs could do more than just communications relay or policing roles in times of war.
Too early to say. The NGMV could be armed with the new-gen Brahmos-NG, NASM-MR (or a longer range missile from the STAR/LFRJ program).
Though this would be the first time an IN ship would sport amidships missile launchers, both Brahmos and NG are likely to weigh around 1.5t each, which is suitable for small ships. They are clearly learning from global best practices.
It was pretty evident from the BEL Q1 call that MFR X was for NGMV (6). The contract was expected to be in signed this financial year.
From 13:45 onwards https://bel-india.in/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/ELA0520240729154702.mp3
This is in addition to the 2,118cr contract signed in September last year.
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If this radar is meant to provide fire control for the VL-SRSAM, we could see it replacing the Revathi radar on the Project-28 corvettes in future.
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Contract is already signed.
GE made a press release thats all.
GE Aerospace’s LM2500 to Power Indian Navy’s Next Generation Missile Vessel | GE Aerospace News
Evendale, Ohio; October 17, 2024: GE Aerospace’s LM2500, engineered for reliability and performance, has been chosen to power the Indian Navy’s Next Generation Missile Vessels (NGMV) built by Cochin Shipyard Limited located in Kochi, India. Six LM2500 marine gas turbine engine kits will be...