Delhi Class & Rajput Class Destroyers : Discussions

[GuardianRED]

Excellent view of the Brahmos VLS on INS Ranvijay

#CycloneFani There goes the bird from #INSRanvijay to render relief & support to the affected brethren. Nation First Always and Ever pic.twitter.com/FoF6IFjPTA

— SpokespersonNavy (@indiannavy) May 4, 2019

 

[Ashwin]

INS Ranjit Sails into Sunset Culminating 36 years of Glorious Era

INS Ranjit, a Rajput class destroyer was decommissioned at a solemn yet grand ceremony at Naval Dockyard, Visakhapatnam culminating a glorious era on 06 May 19. The decommissioning ceremony was attended by officers and sailors of the commissioning crew as well as other who have been part of Ranjit’s voyage over the last 36 years. The Chief Guest for the Decommissioning ceremony was His Excellency Admiral Devendra Kumar Joshi PVSM AVSM YSM NM VSM ADC (Retd) Hon’ble Lieutenant Governor, Andaman & Nicobar Islands who was also a part of the commissioning crew. The Commissioning Ceremony was graced by 16 officers and 10 sailors from the commissioning crew and 23 erstwhile Commanding Officers.

The ship commissioned on 15 September 1983 by Captain Vishnu Bhagwat in erstwhile USSR has rendered yeoman service to the nation for 36 years. The ship has been helmed by 27 commanding officers and the last commanding officer, Captain Vikram C Mehra has been in command since 06 Jun 17. The ship since her commissioning has sailed for 2190 days covering a distance of over 7,43,000 nautical miles which is equivalent to navigating around the world 35 times and 3.5 times the distance from earth to moon.

The ship has been at the forefront of major naval operations and has the distinction of serving on both Eastern and Western seaboards. Apart from various naval operations like Op Talwar and various multinational exercises, the ship has also been a flag bearer of the Indian Navy`s benign role by participating in relief operations post Tsunami in 2004 and Hud-hud on 2014. In recognition of the service rendered by the ship to the nation, the ship was awarded Unit Citations by the Chief of Naval Staff in 2003-04 and in 2009-10.

At the sunset on 06 May 19, the National Flag, Naval Ensign and Commissioning Pennant were lowered for one last time onboard, glorious era in the history of the Indian Navy came to a nostalgic end. Whilst the Ranjit era has come to an end in the Indian Navy, the spirit of Ranjit will continue to live in the hearts of every officer and sailor who has served onboard and her motto of Sada Rane Jayat or Ever Victorious in Battle will continue to inspire generations of Sea Warriors today and in the future.

 

[Ashwin]

D54

 

[Ashwin]

Yoga day on board INS Ranvir

 

[Gautam]

 

[Gautam]

USS Anchorage visited Visakhapatnam in January 2019. During that visit a PASSEX was organised between the Anchorage and INS Ranvijay.


On the SATCOM mast of the Ranvijay you can see the Kavach naval chaff rocket launcher.


Here is INS Chennai launching a Kavach rocket

 

[Gautam]

Inclined Brahmos launcher on the INS Rajput. 4 on each side, a total of 8 missiles. Not to mention the one Dhanush ballistic missile she carries. For a ship that went into service nearly 40 years ago, she still carries a fearsome weapon load.



This is from Malabar exercise 2012. INS Rana leads the way followed by an US destroyer which is further followed by INS Ranvir. How comw these two don't have Brahmos here ? Was the upgrades done after 2012 ? or was the upgrades limited to INS Rajput ?

 

[Ashwin]

Inclined Brahmos launcher on the INS Rajput. 4 on each side, a total of 8 missiles. Not to mention the one Dhanush ballistic missile she carries. For a ship that went into service nearly 40 years ago, she still carries a fearsome weapon load.

View attachment 8284

This is from Malabar exercise 2012. INS Rana leads the way followed by an US destroyer which is further followed by INS Ranvir. How comw these two don't have Brahmos here ? Was the upgrades done after 2012 ? or was the upgrades limited to INS Rajput ?
View attachment 8286

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[Austerlitz]

Anyone knows about current status of delhi class upgrade? INS delhi was pictured having begun upgrade in mid 2018 at mazagaon dock mumbai.Whats current status?
Also wonder if they are installing shtil vls or barak 8 along with brahmos upgrade.

 

[Gautam]

Onset of Operation Safe Homecoming in 2011. INS Mysore en route to Libya to bring home the Indians stuck in conflict.

 

[Austerlitz]

Delhi class MLU is shaping up to be truly impressive.
8 brahmos in quad launcher ala rajput.
48 shtil1 vls from arm launcher.Not sure if 16 barak 1s stay or replaced by barak 8.
New data processing units,esm system,asw suite,kavack,mareech decoys,new ew suite.New SDR radios.
Humsa ng active/passive hull mounted sonar.
Atlas elektronik active tower array sonar.
Big improvement is the state of the art us-spanish LTR-25 AESA with 450 km range and capable of tracking ballistic missiles as well as other airborne targets.This radar is operational with several NATO members. This is the replacement of thales radar.
It will also equip 4 vishakapatnam and 7 p17a if pks is to be belived.(skepticism to be retained).

 

[Gautam]

8 brahmos in quad launcher ala rajput.

Inclined launcher or VLS ? For an old but still a top of the line destroyer, 8 AShM loadout feels a bit too less. Wish it could carry at least a couple more. What other offensive weapons will it be carrying ?

48 shtil1 vls from arm launcher.Not sure if 16 barak 1s stay or replaced by barak 8.

I thought they were getting rid of the arm launcher. Also, doesn't Barak 8 out perform the Shtil-1 missile ? Why not just use the usual Barak-1/8 combo ?

New data processing units,esm system,asw suite,kavack,mareech decoys,new ew suite.New SDR radios.
Humsa ng active/passive hull mounted sonar.
Atlas elektronik active tower array sonar.

Sounds great. I wonder if the Delhi class will be able to use co-operative engagement after the extensive upgrade.

Big improvement is the state of the art us-spanish LTR-25 AESA with 450 km range and capable of tracking ballistic missiles as well as other airborne targets.This radar is operational with several NATO members. This is the replacement of thales radar.
It will also equip 4 vishakapatnam and 7 p17a if pks is to be belived.(skepticism to be retained).

Not enough has been discussed about that LTR-25 AESA. I'll try to read up on it and post it if something interesting pops up. How many of those did we order ?

What is the primary radar of the Delhi class today ? Will it be upgraded in the MLU program ?

 

[Austerlitz]

Inclined launcher or VLS ? For an old but still a top of the line destroyer, 8 AShM loadout feels a bit too less. Wish it could carry at least a couple more. What other offensive weapons will it be carrying ?

I thought they were getting rid of the arm launcher. Also, doesn't Barak 8 out perform the Shtil-1 missile ? Why not just use the usual Barak-1/8 combo ?

Sounds great. I wonder if the Delhi class will be able to use co-operative engagement after the extensive upgrade.

Not enough has been discussed about that LTR-25 AESA. I'll try to read up on it and post it if something interesting pops up. How many of those did we order ?

What is the primary radar of the Delhi class today ? Will it be upgraded in the MLU program ?

8 inclined brahmos.
48 vls shtil-1 upgrade,currently 48 shtil on arm launcher.
Barak 8 probably requires the elta radar which is costly for a ship with half its life gone.
3+4+7=14 LTR
Might later be retrofitted onto kolkatas during mlu as well.

Main radars were fregat(air and surface search) which was older version of the ones fitted on talwars,along with thales radar.(air earch)Pretty sure its going to be upgraded to latest modelfregat m2m model,though with the ltr aesa it will now play 2nd fiddle.

 

[Austerlitz]

Correction: It seems instead of shtil barak 8 is prefered choice for mlu of delhi class by navy.Navy intends to standardize barak 8 accross all its capital ships that can work together with CEC capability.So barak 8 will go on board both carriers(already on vicky),plus all kolkata,vizag,p17a shops.Shivalik and delhi class also to get it, subject to problems with integration and cost.22 ships in total planned.
Talwars will remain with shtil and are meant for workhorse duty and affordable number increment to the fleet.Expected indian navy fleet by 2030-
2 carriers
10 destroyers(3 Delhi upg..3 kolkata..4 vizag..with next gen destroyer finishing construction)
23 Frigates(10 talwars,3 brahmaputra upg,3 shivalik, 7 p17a)
20 ASW corvettes(4 kamorta..16 shallow water asw craft)
7 multi role corvete(ngc)
10 missile corvettes( 6 ngmv + 4 kora)
Plus OPV, amphibious ships, support vessels.
We can expect 4-6 SSBN s however.2 akula ssn with indian model beginning construction.
However number of ssks to dip badly even with 6 scorpenes,maybe half a dozen upgraded kilos will be operational, shishumar 209 class retired.Maybe 3-4 of the p75I would be operational.Cant see more than 15-16 ssk which is a danger for us.
Which is why we should add 3 scorpenes or make an off the shelf purchase of upgraded 636 kilos which are cheap and effective.

 

[Bali78]

Correction: It seems instead of shtil barak 8 is prefered choice for mlu of delhi class by navy.Navy intends to standardize barak 8 accross all its capital ships that can work together with CEC capability.So barak 8 will go on board both carriers(already on vicky),plus all kolkata,vizag,p17a shops.Shivalik and delhi class also to get it, subject to problems with integration and cost.22 ships in total planned.
Talwars will remain with shtil and are meant for workhorse duty and affordable number increment to the fleet.Expected indian navy fleet by 2030-
2 carriers
10 destroyers(3 Delhi upg..3 kolkata..4 vizag..with next gen destroyer finishing construction)
23 Frigates(10 talwars,3 brahmaputra upg,3 shivalik, 7 p17a)
20 ASW corvettes(4 kamorta..16 shallow water asw craft)
7 multi role corvete(ngc)
10 missile corvettes( 6 ngmv + 4 kora)
Plus OPV, amphibious ships, support vessels.
We can expect 4-6 SSBN s however.2 akula ssn with indian model beginning construction.
However number of ssks to dip badly even with 6 scorpenes,maybe half a dozen upgraded kilos will be operational, shishumar 209 class retired.Maybe 3-4 of the p75I would be operational.Cant see more than 15-16 ssk which is a danger for us.
Which is why we should add 3 scorpenes or make an off the shelf purchase of upgraded 636 kilos which are cheap and effective.

I don't understand Navy's push for a third carrier when submarines number is dwindling with no serious plan in place for replacement.

 

[Austerlitz]

I don't understand Navy's push for a third carrier when submarines number is dwindling with no serious plan in place for replacement.

This is my concern too , ssbn wont fight themselves, 2 SSN will be busy in carrier battlegroups.15 odd ssks are not going to do sea denial.Navys strategy us fundamentally flawed.It cant carry out or plan for sea dominance against PLAN which is projected at 15 ssn, 50 ssk, 4 carriers, 25 cruisers and 40 heavy destroyers, plus large number of type54 frigates.Navy has to switch to sea denial in its doctrine against china, for which submarines are most important.If PN gets all 8 yuans our situation would be problematic.Consider this, a talwar class costs the same as a scorpene but has a crew 6 times larger, far more personnel costs.The best thing about subs is crew us less than 50 men,operating costs are thus low for ssk.Buildung and maintaining capital ships are hugely costly.Look at PLAN ...people with 5 years experience are becoming destroyer captains in type 52d..its a joke.
We need 24 ssks at all times minimum.Carrier is totally unsustainable atm.But navy wants its shiny prestige weapon rather than the actual affordable and lethal sub.It needs a mentality change to accept sea denial rather than show the flag dominance that its used to against pak.Remember the day the chinese feel they can secure their trade routes and oil in IOR is the day they will feel emboldened in LAC.They have a trump card- they can place hundreds of srbms on the tibet plateau if they want and target indian heartland, we cant reciprocate as their heartland is far away and can only be targeted by much costlier icbm.But our trump card is the ability to wreck their trade and collapse their economy with our navy.
We must retain the ability.Subs also happen to be the best weapon for shipping interdiction along with aircraft.

 

[Ashwin]

Correction: It seems instead of shtil barak 8 is prefered choice for mlu of delhi class by navy.Navy intends to standardize barak 8 accross all its capital ships that can work together with CEC capability.So barak 8 will go on board both carriers(already on vicky),plus all kolkata,vizag,p17a shops.Shivalik and delhi class also to get it, subject to problems with integration and cost.22 ships in total planned.
Talwars will remain with shtil and are meant for workhorse duty and affordable number increment to the fleet.Expected indian navy fleet by 2030-
2 carriers
10 destroyers(3 Delhi upg..3 kolkata..4 vizag..with next gen destroyer finishing construction)
23 Frigates(10 talwars,3 brahmaputra upg,3 shivalik, 7 p17a)
20 ASW corvettes(4 kamorta..16 shallow water asw craft)
7 multi role corvete(ngc)
10 missile corvettes( 6 ngmv + 4 kora)
Plus OPV, amphibious ships, support vessels.
We can expect 4-6 SSBN s however.2 akula ssn with indian model beginning construction.
However number of ssks to dip badly even with 6 scorpenes,maybe half a dozen upgraded kilos will be operational, shishumar 209 class retired.Maybe 3-4 of the p75I would be operational.Cant see more than 15-16 ssk which is a danger for us.
Which is why we should add 3 scorpenes or make an off the shelf purchase of upgraded 636 kilos which are cheap and effective.

Not correct. Delhi class will not get Barak 8.

 

[randomradio]

Not sure if 16 barak 1s stay or replaced by barak 8.

I doubt there's gonna be any Barak 8s. It requires the addition of the MF-STAR, which is not possible.

I don't understand Navy's push for a third carrier when submarines number is dwindling with no serious plan in place for replacement.

There is a good submarine plan in place. And it has been further bolstered by the order for 6 SSNs. The only problem is it will take time to implement.

 

[Bali78]

There is a good submarine plan in place. And it has been further bolstered by the order for 6 SSNs. The only problem is it will take time to implement.

What plan ?? I have been hearing about the plan since last 7-8 years without any progress whatsoever. It took us almost 20 years to get just 6 scorpene !! If this rate of acquisition does not bother Navy and MoD, then they must be smoking some top quality shit.

 

[randomradio]

What plan ?? I have been hearing about the plan since last 7-8 years without any progress whatsoever. It took us almost 20 years to get just 6 scorpene !! If this rate of acquisition does not bother Navy and MoD, then they must be smoking some top quality shit.

P-75I will start this year. It will be a program for 6+6 submarines.

Then there's the SSN. 6 now and 6 later.

And we will likely go for 3 more Scorpenes.

So long term we are talking about 27 new attack submarines, apart from the 6 Scorpenes, and whatever will be left of the Kilo and 209 fleets by then. The construction schedule is expected to be a whole lot faster than the Scorpenes.

Along with all the above, there's a plan to build 12 subs of indigenous design.