We had had these coastal batteries even before I became an officer in The Indian Navy way back in 1986. The trucks which carry them have turbine propulsion and really massive. I got first glimpse of these during Op Brasstacks.
I've not heard of any offer or "heat check" regarding NSM coastal launchers and India. I suspect it's just forum chatter.
Yeah, look unless India or the US is interested it's not likely to progress beyond this:
NSM can fit on the MH-60, but there's no plan to due so due to a lack of Norwegian requirement and unlike JSM, NSM is a solely Norwegian venture (it is jointly marketed through Raytheon though). Once the US production gets underway they may evolve the platform to phase out their aging Penguins:
NSM isn't the only helicopter capable missile in Europe either. The Matre ER provides comparable performance and is a French weapon system, so India can leverage its relations with France to get favorable terms.
There's not much of a difference in terms of capability between Brahmos and Brahmos-M. Both will carry the same warhead to a similar distance. The only difference is the Brahmos-M will be slightly faster while being smaller and lighter. It's basically the air and submarine compatible version. The Brahmos will be upgraded to mach 5 in a few years.
Could we replace these with a shore launched brahmos it has the range, it could be based on the air launched version as it is lighter
The Air launched version is 2.5T vs the 3T for surface version, still significantly heavier than the Klub variants that can go from 1.3T to 2.3T, while NSM clocks in at 410Kg and Harpoon at 690kg. The difference is quite stark.
Brahmos M clocking in at 1.5 ton can surely go up against Klub variants, but for a BDL/BEL system to go up against Harpoon/Exocet/NSM, India needs a 150Kg warhead; 200-250 km range high subsonic missile would be quite useful.
So almost looks like we need high tier missiles like Brahmos/Nirbhay while on the low end we need a high subsonic 200km range strike missiles like Harpoon/Exocet in development. What is in development? Something based off a KH59 would work wonders for this tier imo.
Yes, looks like it exists only as rumours right now.
Yeah, look unless India or the US is interested it's not likely to progress beyond this:
NSM can fit on the MH-60, but there's no plan to due so due to a lack of Norwegian requirement and unlike JSM, NSM is a solely Norwegian venture (it is jointly marketed through Raytheon though). Once the US production gets underway they may evolve the platform to phase out their aging Penguins:
Is the JSM also an option for helicopters?
I think the Marte is Italian. Anyway, the US will push for their own wares on India over European. And the MH-60 will likely win the tender for 123 helicopters anyway. So whatever the USN operates, India will operate when it comes to the MH-60.
Brahmos is an overkill for the role also expensive for the requirement.
Last RFI seeks a subsonic missile with around 150km range. Under development DRDO missile would be the answer.
Brahmos-NG/mIni is still a concept, yet to start development.
Yep.
1. There's the Brahmos family obviously, with supersonic and hypersonic speeds.
2. Then we need high subsonic missiles with long range like the 1000Km LRASM with stealth and an IR seeker.
3. And we need active seeker missiles based on Tomahawk or Nirbhay.
4. Then there's high subsonic short and medium range missiles which are surface and air launched. So active seeker like Marte, Exocet, KH-59 etc.
5. And passive seeker like NSM/JSM.
6. And finally we need anti-ship ballistic missiles with 1500Km range or more.
So we are currently working on 1, 3, 4 and 6. When it comes to missiles like the LRASM and NSM, we haven't prioritised it yet. NSM is available anyway. LRASM will be denied to us, as will the Tomahawk. And an active seeker version of Nirbhay is also many years away. So no long range subsonic missile in the foreseeable future, but we can have everything else.
The air launched version cannot be surface launched because the booster is too weak to carry the missile to more than mach 2 from the initial state of rest before the ramjet kicks in. When air launched, the initial speed is mach 0.8, so they reduced the booster size and that gave it 500Kg of weight savings.
Although a coastal defence Brahmos is a good idea, we do not really need it because it's an expensive proposition. But it partly already exists as the army's land based version.
It's planned, as is a VLS and submarine launched variety, but unlike NSM, JSM is still in the process of being refined and has yet to reach a service stage. F-35 and P-8A integration are the priorities right now since both of those are seeing widespread proliferation among likely or current F-35 users (and there's a push to limit the Turkish SOM-J's spread among NATO partners), and that Norway itself is buying both types. Following that are going to be subsurface variants to arm Norwegian submarines, and possibly those of Germany, Poland, the US, Japan and Australia, all of whom have purchased or intend to purchase JSM (and are themselves NSM users). Only after, unless Raytheon decides to expedite the process, will work an a helicopter launched JSM commence.
It's currently a low priority.
Matre's design is Italian, but the missiles IP is owned by MBDA, which is French (not a consortium, but a collaboration between several transnational contractors). Developmental work on the Matre ER is being done primarily by Italy for use on their Typhoon and NH90s though.
As for the US, their helicopters aren't used for anti-shipping generally, but for small boat interdiction or assault. They carry Penguin which is capable of sinking ships, but is generally considered rated for frigate sized boats unless using multiple missiles, and Hellfire, which is targeted as a solution against swarm boats or fast attack craft. Apart from those two Maverick is the only other helicopter capable anti-ship missile in the US inventory and can be, but isn't operationally, carried by the AH-64 and AH-1. Operationally Maverick is only used in a maritime role by American P-3s.
So India's options if they're intent on using (or are forced to) American helicopter launched anti-ship weapons are limited to Penguin, being phased out, Hellfire, likely already on India's order list, Maverick, by only for naval attack helicopters and MPAs or hoping the US either allows India to integrate another weapon or hope they move forward with a helicopter launched JSM/NSM rather quickly.
At present the US doesn't have plans to go forward with any armament outside of Hellfire since in its experience helicopter engagements against ships take place at extremely limited range which puts the necessity of a Penguin or JSM outside of their necessity versus a Royal Navy or Italian Navy who's lack of alternative maritime strike elements necessitates the use of supplementary weapons like Matre ER, Exocet or Sea Venom.
So you're saying it's going to remain vapourware for many years. That's too bad. Looks like we have to settle for DRDO's NASM.
We have a lot of small navies around in the IOR. In 10 years, you can say pretty much every country around us will have a frigate or two in our backyard, so a helicopter-borne AShM will be a force multiplier.
Not many pics around of the Mk.IV Landing Craft Utility (LCU) are they...
Sanction for increased maritime surveillance assets - 12 do Aircraft
Govt of India has sanctioned this week, three new Naval Air Squadrons to be setup in Gujarat and Tamil Nadu. Besides this, the Central Government has also sanctioned manpower towards manning additional aircraft in existing Dornier Surveillance Squadrons in Kerala and Andaman Islands. It is pertinent to mention that the contract for procurement of 12 Dornier aircraft was signed with HAL (Kanpur) on 29 Dec 16 with delivery commencing in Jan 19. This is a substantial contract for the indigenous HAL built Maritime Surveillance version of the Dornier 228 aircraft.
The new Dornier 228 aircraft being delivered under this contract are fitted with improved ‘state of the art’ sensors and equipment which includes glass cockpit, Advanced Surveillance Radar, ELINT, Optical sensors and networking features. The aircraft would enhance Maritime Domain Awareness of Indian Navy through round the clock sensor based surveillance and provide targeting data in areas of operation to ward off terror and other threats from sea. This addition would further strengthen Indian Navy’s efforts at Coastal Security of India’s vast coastline of over seven thousand km.
___________________________________________________________________________
DKS/AC 04/19
(Release ID :187592)
Govt of India has sanctioned this week, three new Naval Air Squadrons to be setup in Gujarat and Tamil Nadu. Besides this, the Central Government has also sanctioned manpower towards manning additional aircraft in existing Dornier Surveillance Squadrons in Kerala and Andaman Islands. It is pertinent to mention that the contract for procurement of 12 Dornier aircraft was signed with HAL (Kanpur) on 29 Dec 16 with delivery commencing in Jan 19. This is a substantial contract for the indigenous HAL built Maritime Surveillance version of the Dornier 228 aircraft.
The new Dornier 228 aircraft being delivered under this contract are fitted with improved ‘state of the art’ sensors and equipment which includes glass cockpit, Advanced Surveillance Radar, ELINT, Optical sensors and networking features. The aircraft would enhance Maritime Domain Awareness of Indian Navy through round the clock sensor based surveillance and provide targeting data in areas of operation to ward off terror and other threats from sea. This addition would further strengthen Indian Navy’s efforts at Coastal Security of India’s vast coastline of over seven thousand km.
___________________________________________________________________________
DKS/AC 04/19
(Release ID :187592)
