How else will they make case for N-IMRH.
Such small numbers its better to license produce MH-60R/S.
Such small numbers its better to license produce MH-60R/S.
The navy is latching on to the work being done for the IA and IAF. So the engine and transmission's gonna be the same, saves a lot of money there, in fact most of the R&D money is there.
Not true, they want same engine as Romeo as oppose to land version which will have French.
Everything this different. It's practically a different helicopter.
Just my 2 cents (quoting you just for context, trying to address everyone)
123 NMRH along with 111 NUH was the original call few years back. While upcoming large number of OPVs, NGMVs, NGCs, Aux vessels , we could say that 111 NUH will be required.
And for LHDs, Destroyers, Frigates, etc 123 NMRH was required.
Now NUH was a replacement of Alouette III class chopper and NMRH a replacement of SeaKing class of helicopters.
Coming first to the NUH , it was supposed to be a replacement of 2 ton light helo with a light helo with 2 engines to be able to operate in sea conditions. Search and Rescue, transport, recce , etc as primary missions along with able to play a supporting role in Anti Surface warfare and if possible Anti Submarine warfare. That meant a helo of say 3.5-4.5 tons. But as things turned out , inplace of NUH we will likely be investing in ALH variant in class of 5.5 ton. Still that should work. But with a bigger and heavier helo, cost will increase and the numbers will come down.
Coming to NMRH , the requirements were a replacement of 12+ ton class helo in two configs. First the AShW/ASW capability for replacing the MK42B and Ka28PL and second Troop transport as primary role and surface warfare as secondary to replace the MK42C/UH3 helicopters. Now as things turned out, nations didn't exactly replace the SeaKing with a 12 ton ASW capability helo. They went for two types. Generally a lighter 9-10 ton class ASW multirole chopper(like MH60/NH90) and a second 12+ ton chopper to operate from say Amphibious ships (like EC725, AW101,S92).
So it was ultimately inevitable that our 123 requirement would have been broken down into 2 different kinds of helicopters.
Some time back too while discussing in the WhatsApp/telegram group we thought that approx 50+ choppers of MH60R and a similar number of choppers in 12+ ton were ultimately going to be procured.
Now with the N-IMRH program giving a number like 60, it seems that the procurement will be just enough to get 2 squadrons of dedicated Special Ops variant of the helo to operate from shores and another 41 to maybe Operate from the LHDs. Given that Mistrals can carry a mix of upto 20 helos (8 heavier and 12 medium weight helos), 41 seems fine.
And with around 30 or so ships in frigate/destroyer class till 2030 , a minimum of say 3 dozen MH60R along with Naval Dhruvs which we may procure should be enough.
But again, just my 2 cents.
HAL is developing the helicopter with 2 engines as option in order to control the cost of the engine. The other option is the one on Romeo. But all the helicopters will have a common engine in the end, which could be either. Russia is also offering an engine.
But yeah, the naval helicopter will be a different design. But that's fine, the airframe doesn't increase costs much. It's barely anything compared to the cost of the entire helicopter.
Expression of Interest (EoI) for selection of Partner/s for Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH) and Deck Based Multi-Role Helicopter (DBMRH) PROJECTS on Public-Private Partnership (PPP) Model Through Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) route.
Document attached
Document attached
"The new aero-engine company in India will be dedicated to the development, production, sales and support of helicopter engines, and one of its main objectives will be to meet the requirements of HAL and defence ministry’s future helicopters, including the 13-tonne IMRH (Indian multi-role helicopter),” HAL said.
www.google.com
Mr. R. Madhavan said: “Safran Helicopter Engines has been our valued partner for several decades. We now look forward to utilize this opportunity to leverage HAL’s experience in manufacturing of more than 15 types of aircraft and helicopter engines to jointly co-develop and manufacture engine with immediate focus on IMRH and its naval variant the Deck Based Multi Role Helicopter (DBMRH). This partnership will involve and utilize the Indian Defence manufacturing ecosystem within India”.
www.safran-group.com
HAL, Safran to develop helicopter engines in joint venture
It was signed by HAL Chairman R Madhavan and Safran Helicopter Engines CEO Franck Saudo in the presence of Safran Group CEO Olivier Andriès
Mr. R. Madhavan said: “Safran Helicopter Engines has been our valued partner for several decades. We now look forward to utilize this opportunity to leverage HAL’s experience in manufacturing of more than 15 types of aircraft and helicopter engines to jointly co-develop and manufacture engine with immediate focus on IMRH and its naval variant the Deck Based Multi Role Helicopter (DBMRH). This partnership will involve and utilize the Indian Defence manufacturing ecosystem within India”.
Safran and HAL to develop new helicopter engines in joint venture
I believe GE CT7 engines will be used to create the IMRH prototype by HAL. The Indigenous Engine, which we are currently planning to create, will be used later. The IMRH Development Plan will be in jeopardy if we choose to wait for the indigenous engine.
You cannot call engine as indigenous one, its basically customized license produced one. We clubbed with france on shakti engine some 15-20 years ago, if it was indigenous we could have design an uprated engine based on shakti to power up IMRH.
This JV is most likely for customizing Aneto-1K engine for our requirement just like the shakti engine for ALH. Shakti is a variant of Ardiden engine.
GE and Safran compete to power AW149 for UK NMH requirement
Leonardo is expected to choose between the General Electric (GE) CT7-2E1 and the Safran Aneto-1K to power the AW149 in its bid for the UK New Medium Helicopter (NMH)...
www.janes.com
We could end up using GE engine for DBMRH and Safran for IMRH.
The Shakti engine, in my opinion, is more than a licenced product. AL31 is a licenced product, but Shakti engine seems to have Indian components, and India can increase the percentage of indigenous components.
We are fine if we have a plan to use Aneto-1k for the prototype... otherwise, delays like LCA may occur. Since the engine is the heart of the entire system, we must give the engineers a comfortable place to start.
"The new aero-engine company in India will be dedicated to the development, production, sales and support of helicopter engines, and one of its main objectives will be to meet the requirements of HAL and defence ministry’s future helicopters, including the 13-tonne IMRH (Indian multi-role helicopter),” HAL said.
HAL, Safran to develop helicopter engines in joint venture
It was signed by HAL Chairman R Madhavan and Safran Helicopter Engines CEO Franck Saudo in the presence of Safran Group CEO Olivier Andriès
Mr. R. Madhavan said: “Safran Helicopter Engines has been our valued partner for several decades. We now look forward to utilize this opportunity to leverage HAL’s experience in manufacturing of more than 15 types of aircraft and helicopter engines to jointly co-develop and manufacture engine with immediate focus on IMRH and its naval variant the Deck Based Multi Role Helicopter (DBMRH). This partnership will involve and utilize the Indian Defence manufacturing ecosystem within India”.
Safran and HAL to develop new helicopter engines in joint venture
Not correct, We locally produce all critical parts of the AL31 from minerals, including SCB. Shakti is just a custom version of Ardiden. A separate subsidiary of 50:50 Safran does local production.
There is no real plan to develop 3,000+ shp engine from scratch now. Production versions will have french/US engines.
Long term. For now, it's better to use a proven engine.
Defence ministry to allow private companies to develop military helicopters
The Defence Ministry has decided to amend the DAP rules to allow private defence companies to collaborate with Indian Defence PSUs with a majority stake and produce required weapon systems.
It is understood that Indian private sector companies have already shown their eagerness to participate in the project with the Defence Ministry telling them to start manufacturing in the next seven years. The French Safran has already signed an MoU with Indian HAL on July 8, 2022, to form a new joint venture company to develop, produce and support the IMRH engine including the naval variant.
India to make diesel engines for ships
In an important announcement on military technology, the Ministry of Defence will manufacture diesel-powered marine engines used in ships and also design and develop a heavy-lift helicopter for the three services. Both projects will have participation of the private sector.
Heavy-lift helicopters to be made in India
Super Frelon is termed as a heavy lift Helicopter, that's around 13 ton MTOW. So maybe they are just referring to IMRH.
Super Frelon is termed as a heavy lift Helicopter, that's around 13 ton MTOW. So maybe they are just referring to IMRH.
2031 estimated induction timeframe. Coincides with OSD of Mi17 in 2032. Estimated Design and Development to take 8 years. A little aggressive, but doable imo.