Indian Hypersonic Propulsion Developments
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
The new hypersonic propulsion will be ready in two years.
Only thing it has is speed nothing more... In all likelihood it's Zircon build in India. Characteristics will be similar to Zircon with top speed of Mach 9 if Russians sources are to be believed ( highly unlikely ) & terminal speed of Mach 5 to 6. It's thermal signature will be off the charts.... Easily detectable but hard to intercept for now. What we really need to invest heavily is in VLO based subsonic cruise missile like SCALP & AGM 158C.....Stealth will triumph speed in future wars against all type of AD weapons.
Speed matters bro! That's why BrahMos is so deadly. In fact, it's far more deadly and harder to intercept than the stealthy Scalp-EG. Hypersonic Cruise Missiles, flying nap of the earth profile are going to be nightmares for IADS to stop.
Even the French are developing RJ10 Supersonic Cruise missile for future SEAD/Anti-Ship role. It's going to be complemented by TP-15 aka Scalp-EG replacement.
Not like that actually, most likely HCM in the initial version will be a mach 7 scramjet mode and mach 2 terminal impact speed article.
About the detection part, wait for a nice surprise.
Nature of warfare is such dynamic that there is nothing foolproof weapon system. Igla has great record against subsonic cm.
By the times, they come in west, we shall be operating Hypersonic Brahmos with Mach 9 speed with burn time of 1050 second+. We can hit China main land from sea or from borders of India.
Sirjee none of the next gen hypersonic missions will have scramjet operation of such duration. It is done just to prove that the tech is valid and the combustor is robust enough that it can handle long duration burn like such under ground level test conditions (70 bar pressure at sea level). This is similar to load testing where to prove the load carrying capacity of a certain rating the company has to show 1.5 times safe load handling which satisfies the factor of safety of that load carrying product, usually 1.5-2 times. This does not mean for a 1 ton rated lifting belt you should lift more , it can tear anytime.
Actual scramjet operation would be somewhere between 200-300sec initially. The missile would comfortably be quick reaction and cover roughly 600km+ ground level distance and hit a target. When Prahaar was tested it covered 150km in under 250sec in a complete ballistic flight profile, without much engagement of control surfaces and trajectory optimisation. It was conceived as longer range arty mainly So you can easily understand how much further a mach 6-7 article in 30-40km altitude would go.
Range is not the concern, only cowards try to throw stuff from afar. If you are in aggressive pose, you would like to hit from as close as possible.
In this particular interview, he is talking about DRDO development. It will be a fully Indian missile. Why would we rebrand it as part of the Russian-owned BrahMos Aerospace? If there is a Brahmos 2 it will be Zircon. If its DRDO project it will not be given to Brahmos.
Your example is inappropriate because you intend to lift that load again and again. It has repeated use while missile is fired once only. Does ISRO rockets which burns for say 110 second in ground are actually burnt for 30 seconds in actual flight? No, what is their burn time in test is actual time in flight.
In case of missiles ie the final product there will be various burn times according to the spec selected by a committee , for instance the solid rocket motor booster stage will lift the article to a desired altitude of operation. But this solid motor burn time is not calculated with the scramjet burn time for the hypersonic cruise mission. The hypersonic phase where the scramjet is ignited has its own burn duration suitable for the range envelope the missile is intended for. Like if you need to cover 500-600km , a mach 6 to 6.5 operation for a duration of 200-240 sec is ok. The total mission duration ie total time of flight will be different to the scramjet operation part. This is easy to understand. If the velocity is almost 2km per second horizontally , then unless you do a steep dive from high up at a high angle of attack (80deg) there is good chance the accuracy will be poor because only a velocity trimming mechanism can provide the necessity homing in with accuracy towards a fixed target.
The longer burn duration is to prove the core scramjet technology, that the combustor part is capable of operation upto or more than 1000 sec duration. This will be proven and certified. Based on this tech demo, the final product ie missile variants can be created according to various range of target.
The missiles will not be different for different distance target. Did we use different Brahmos for different distance targets? Missile to be used shall be same. If distance is less, missile will hit target with spare fuel. If the target is far away, missile will hit target with less amount of fuel left. It is simple. No need to make it complicated.
US has a hypersonic Quick strike program which aims to hit distance beyond 2500 k.m. Why would you reduce the range when your engine is capable to burn for 1050 second. If atall any effort is made, it will be to enhance the range not to reduce it.
Currently there is only 1 or 2 versions available (old MTCR 290km and Brahmos ER 400+km onwards) and if we go by block basis then there are Block III Brahmos with steep dive capability. Hence Sir it is true that there are different Brahmos for different range targets , hence also the old versions are software upgraded to remove the 300km restriction. In future we will have Brahmos NG and Brahmos LR available.
The difference is the different phase of operations. You did not mention the spent solid fuel booster part Sir. That part is always spent as it is used to gain the required kinetic thrust to start the ramjet. The scramjet operation will also be similar technically. Without this solid fuel based booster the ramjet will not start. Similarly the scramjet will also not start if not attain certain kinetic thrust.
As for the fuel, the amount of fuel filled in the missile is mission specific and center of gravity, mass etc testing is done to find the equilibrium for op. The amount of fuel is unlikely to be for 1000sec + operation because here the fuel itself also acts as the coolant inside the combustion chamber. Hence a large amount of fuel is needed and not all of it is to be burned for flight.
This program is completely different to a scramjet powered cruise mission. This quick strike program is akin to a BGRV/HGV with a common hypersonic glide body. In a way this is akin to the LRAShM program but in our case we made the kill vehicle part customised for anti ship mission.
There are 2 types of hypersonic propulsion, one is powered propulsion via scramjet that will operate at a much lower altitude. The other is the unpowered glide where you send the glide body up to a high altitude at a very high speed so the initial kinematic thrust is so high, the glide body uses its own special aerodynamic shape & lift generating surfaces to generate enough aerodynamic lift to cover a long distance by gliding in the atmosphere.
I do not know why you complicates the matter. Looking to your last paragraph, in which you states that fuel is used as a cooler. That is the case with Cryogenic engine, and I do not know about Brahmos II. In Brahmos 1, solid fuel slurry cast is used as fuel which cannot be used as a coolant. Coolant used as cooler in cryogenic engine, and it performs same burning time in space for which it burns in testing. I have no idea of any engine which burns 1/3rd of time (Like what you claim of 300 second of burning against 1050 second burning in test) in actual operation than what it burns actual testing. All ISRO engines burns same time in actual operation what they are tested at Mahendragiri. I am unable to agree with you.
Bro. I know that and almost all member know that. I am talking and discussing about Scramjet powerd Brahmos II and not about HGV.
This particular subject ie scramjet engine based propulsion, here it is done by using hydrocarbon fuel as propellant, that is liquid fuel based scramjet. In case of a ramjet , the combustion is done by diffusing the intake air into subsonic speed before combustion.
The same operation for a scramjet is done at a supersonic level, mach number 1.8 to 2.5 best for operation. Hence you can understand the combustion happens at a very high air speed, and the igniter/flame holder will have to provide continuous ignition inside the combustion chamber where the air that comes via the intake is at a speed of mach 1.8-2.5 in between. So obviously inside the combustion chamber the temperature will be huge, almost 2000deg C. Hence you also need to use some cooling.
This cooling is done by using the same fuel vapour of the liquid fuel propellant instead of providing another coolant stored in different tank and feed lines. The liquid fuel is able to absorb the heat generated inside the combustion chamber , hence it is called endothermic fuel and the whole scramjet missile powered mission is termed as ET-LDHCM , Endothermic Long Distance Hypersonic Cruise Mission. This is to prove that technology exists and proven for hypersonic travel at certain mach no (6.5) in a certain altitude (32km).
This is different from cryogenic engine due to operation in lower altitude within the atmosphere. The lower we can make a projectile fly horizontal to ground/earth curvature at higher speed, the more chance enemy will not be able to intercept or counter it.
Which is why I explained Sir that the US program can not be similar to our HCM program.
What you says has no relevance or infcat support your argument that the scramjet which runs for 1050 second in lab will actually have the flight duration of 250 to 300 second. The conditions in which scramjet run for 1050 were like real conditions. All what you stated happened in actual condition. Now wait and watch for actual test.
Think it in the way we developed Uttam radar Sirjee. Uttam radar as a tech demo validated quad TR modules operation on a test configuration radar with a certain amount of TR modules nos, 712 or something. This was fitted on a flying platform and done testing on air which validated the performance, range detection, power consumption etc. But in fighter jet specific radar, we are not going to use this 712 element TD Uttam radar. We are going to use the same TR modules and scale up to 900+ TRM element radar for LCA, 2500 element for Su30 etc.
Scramjet operation is similar. By ground testing the combustor for a 1000sec plus operation, DRDL proved that it is possible the combustor can work for such duration under specific condition that is 70 bar pressure at sea level. But the missile configuration will not operate in sea level condition at 70 bar pressure. It will operate at much higher combustor pressure in ambient condition, at a higher altitude and also has to pull very high G maneuvers. Hence the scramjet operation duration will be less than what is proven/max rated for.
This part is completely wrong idea that exact same ambient condition will be for ground level static test and actual test flight. The vehicle will disintegrate within a short time after launch if it were tried that way. Engines tested under actual flight condition go thru far more severe aerodynamic load. Hence so much sensors bonding are done so enough data can be gathered and repeated ground firing/static firing is done before actual test flight mission is planned.
This is also suitable for practical purpose. A missile works best on a core proven tech and with a certain degree of unpredictability in its flight operation. Otherwise it would be very easy to develop a counter for it. For Rudram 3, 2022 Defence expo showed time of flight at 400sec, but recently it showed 300sec. We can see why the latter would be beneficial, the missile will be able to strike at max distance within 5 minutes from launch , compared to previous 6 min 40 sec giving enemy less time to react. If you have a similar 200sec scramjet operation , it gives you a range of over 400km from that alone, plus kinetic impulse so high it can go 30-40km more by gliding. hence with a 200sec weapon config you can get a small missile that will work 500km+. That is no mean feat. Then you scale it up with a 400-500sec scramjet operation for longer range. The missile will be a little bit bigger and have a greater RCS.
That is what I say. In actual condition, efforts are made to improve performance. It will never happen that engine burnt for 1050 second in lab but in actual, it will burn for 300 second only.
Rest, I am tired of explain you. wait for actual test.
basically the weapon configuration is chosen by the user and they give broad spec like target coverage in ER zone and LR zone etc and time to hit should not exceed x min for a given range, length & weight should not exceed x and y value etc. Now up to the developer to build the product based on tech available under these defined boundary conditions.
Rudram 3 does 550km with a dual pulse propulsion that cover Rudram 2 range too and Rudram 2 is single solid motor. So why not prolong Rudram 2 rocket motor longer to get to 550km by a longer burn duration of a solid motor ? that would not satisfy other issues like length of article, RCS and carriage option etc.
In actual flight test they will also have to prove for 1000sec+ duration should they wish to do so. Original plan was to prove scramjet operation for 600 sec in live flight test condition, full 10 mins of combustion. But this is mainly for more data gathering and fine tuning. The bonded sensors often fail, most time if you mount 50+ accelerometers , temp and pressure sensors gauges on both sides internally, only 2-5 would gather part data rest all fail completely. Telemetry and on board data acquisition + relay that over secure channel is very hard in the flight tests.
The current HCM project which is post HSTDV TD phase, as per DRDO is still not the final missile. This HCM project is to prove the hypersonic flight related technologies. There are various sub technologies as we can easily understand. HSTDV proved hypersonic mission for 20 sec, then 100sec of flight. HCM mission is to prove flight trial demo for x duration of time and all associated technologies for a hypersonic mission. Based on its success the actual missiles will be curved out.
very similar to how NGARM is a TD and Rudram 2 R3 etc are final missiles.