Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

K4 has been tested several times before, including from Arihant. I suspect this test was carried out by the new and improved S4 Aridaman as part of her sea trials.

K4 is our 1st gen full-size SLBM that entered development in the 1990s when our missile tech was still evolving. So nose ejection is par for the course.

The new K5 will be the one to watch- all composite stages, Trident/m51 style aerospike, MIRV and likely gas ejection.
 
K4 has been tested several times before, including from Arihant. I suspect this test was carried out by the new and improved S4 Aridaman as part of her sea trials.

K4 is our 1st gen full-size SLBM that entered development in the 1990s when our missile tech was still evolving. So nose ejection is par for the course.

The new K5 will be the one to watch- all composite stages, Trident/m51 style aerospike, MIRV and likely gas ejection.

The only thing I found to be bit weird/interesting was the business end of the notam. It was quite wide. I also believe it was tested from Aridaman but could also include an improved re-entry vehicle (MaRV/MIRV). Totally speculative from my side though. Will be interesting to compare against past Notams declared for similar tests.
 
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K4 has been tested several times before, including from Arihant. I suspect this test was carried out by the new and improved S4 Aridaman as part of her sea trials.
Just like every single new jet needs to complete weapon integration trials (else won't be inducted into service) and old jets need to have new weapons integrated and fired as proof test , same goes for the nuke subs. This was most likely a repeat trial from one in service platform or a test firing from the new sub. Some weeks ago the k15 firing also happened albeit it is hard to tell about which sub does what. It usually takes some time for full fitment of the weapon system complex before doing this capital trial.
 
The only thing I found to be bit weird/interesting was the business end of the notam. It was quite wide. I also believe it was tested from Aridaman but could also include an improved re-entry vehicle (MaRV/MIRV). Totally speculative from my side though. Will be interesting to compare against past Notams declared for similar tests.
random payload is not attached without being proven via pontoon firing first, neither do there are clearance for such deployment. Actual weapons are much paperwork intensive for QAP reason. What is being part of development trial today, will be proven in 7-8 years, then another 5 years to hit production, then final induction another 6-7 years later. So we can assume what is in development will only go thru to service in 15 years+ time. Yes it takes that long.
 
The only thing I found to be bit weird/interesting was the business end of the notam. It was quite wide. I also believe it was tested from Aridaman but could also include an improved re-entry vehicle (MaRV/MIRV). Totally speculative from my side though. Will be interesting to compare against past Notams declared for similar tests

Likely done to throw the Chinese spy ships off the trail. The last several notams were reportedly cancelled because they cheekily parked themselves at the exact splash point.


 
Likely done to throw the Chinese spy ships off the trail. The last several notams were reportedly cancelled because they cheekily parked themselves at the exact splash point.



I have no idea how effective this will be against space based ISR. Their tracking ships will anyway get a pretty decent view of the whole thing along with the launch platform(s)
 
random payload is not attached without being proven via pontoon firing first, neither do there are clearance for such deployment. Actual weapons are much paperwork intensive for QAP reason. What is being part of development trial today, will be proven in 7-8 years, then another 5 years to hit production, then final induction another 6-7 years later. So we can assume what is in development will only go thru to service in 15 years+ time. Yes it takes that long.


Hmm.. Do we even know if today’s test was from an actual sub or a pontoon? In case of scenario-2, it could very well have been a test from a pontoon!
 
I have no idea how effective this will be against space based ISR. Their tracking ships will anyway get a pretty decent view of the whole thing along with the launch platform(s)
The large radars onboard these ships collect vital telemetry data to complement satellite tracking. Sat sensors have limitations in terms of revisit times, fov, etc. Athough the latest gen Chinese sat constellations like Jilin-1 are changing that.
 
Hmm.. Do we even know if today’s test was from an actual sub or a pontoon? In case of scenario-2, it could very well have been a test from a pontoon!
No we don't, but since k4 has already been tested from fully established submarine installed weapon complex it is likely to be from one of the sub. Pontoon tests are for development stage trials.
 
The large radars onboard these ships collect vital telemetry data to complement satellite tracking. Sat sensors have limitations in terms of revisit times, fov, etc. Athough the latest gen Chinese sat constellations like Jilin-1 are changing that.

Yeah, that’s the point. Those ships need not be parked at the splash point to get read on that telemetry, right? The notam was not wide enough to create uncertainty for the tracking ships. I can bet they got a pretty good read of this test as well.
 
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Yeah, that’s the point. Those ships need not be parked at the splash point to get read on that telemetry, right? The notam was not wide enough to create uncertainty for the tracking ships. I can bet they got a pretty good read of this test as well.
Not necessarily. But the Notam zone was changed several times (downrange length) precisely to make it harder for PLAN ships to pre-position themselves at a vantage point. In any case, the IN deploys its own platforms near the splash point (as stated in many post-launch MoD press releases till date) for assessing test parameters. So the Chinese probably loiter at a distance but still close enough to glean trajectory/accuracy data.

Given the lengths MoD has gone to prevent positioning by Chinese ships, I'm guessing this K4 test must have involved some new tech.
 
The only thing I found to be bit weird/interesting was the business end of the notam. It was quite wide. I also believe it was tested from Aridaman but could also include an improved re-entry vehicle (MaRV/MIRV). Totally speculative from my side though. Will be interesting to compare against past Notams declared for similar tests.
@marich01 K4 can carry MIRV? If warheads are only 15-20 kilotons maybe.
 
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We do not know yet, it is a smaller dia missile comparatively so the mirv pbcv needs to be miniaturised/smaller than the A5 2m or greater dia class that was on display.
It reportedly has a 2t payload. So it should be MIRV capable, imo. If the pbv can carry decoys, it can carry MIRV too.

Another reason why MIRV is likely for K4 is because Arihant and Arighat are both baby boomers with just 4 tubes each. The IN would look to use the ltd space on the boats to the max.
 
All the delivery systems need to have space for a dacs rcs , chaffs/flares , penetration aid and some countermeasures besides the payload.
I'd say SLBMs are MIRV capable by default. K4 would be no exception, esp in our strategic scenario. This missile will form the core of our 2nd strike N capability for the next 7-10 years. S5 is still a long way off.
 
I'd say SLBMs are MIRV capable by default. K4 would be no exception, esp in our strategic scenario. This missile will form the core of our 2nd strike N capability for the next 7-10 years. S5 is still a long way off.

Can you elaborate on this? What do you mean by “by default” ? Won’t it depend on the size of the warhead complex and the overall diameter? Given the diameter of K4 and the restrictive size of the warhead(s) , what do you estimate the yield/warhead I.e. the size of each warhead will have to be smaller, right?
 
Can you elaborate on this? What do you mean by “by default” ? Won’t it depend on the size of the warhead complex and the overall diameter? Given the diameter of K4 and the restrictive size of the warhead(s) , what do you estimate the yield/warhead I.e. the size of each warhead will have to be smaller, right?
SLBMs are prime mirv candidates for any country that has the tech. After all, the goal is to maximize the deterrent effect.

Barring the earliest versions of the Polaris, I can't think of any SLBM with a single whd. Mirv also provides redundancy in case one whd fails to deploy from the pbv in the terminal phase.

To answer your second point, it really depends on the throw weight or total payload capacity of K4 (reported to be 2t > A5's ~1.5t.)

India has achieved a high degree of miniaturization in payload/bus configuration. For comparison, the much smaller Agni Prime has a comparable throw weight and is reportedly MIRV capable too. And there is significant cross-pollination between the Agni and K-series missiles.
 
SLBMs are prime mirv candidates for any country that has the tech. After all, the goal is to maximize the deterrent effect.

Barring the earliest versions of the Polaris, I can't think of any SLBM with a single whd. Mirv also provides redundancy in case one whd fails to deploy from the pbv in the terminal phase.

To answer your second point, it really depends on the throw weight or total payload capacity of K4 (reported to be 2t > A5's ~1.5t.)

India has achieved a high degree of miniaturization in payload/bus configuration. For comparison, the much smaller Agni Prime has a comparable throw weight and is reportedly MIRV capable too. And there is significant cross-pollination between the Agni and K-series missiles.

Probably not the right place for this question (mods - please move it to appropriate section as appropriate) —

What do you guys believe to be our single warhead yields to be?
Do we (hypothetically) have a “dial a yield” design ?

Given the long conversation around the performance of our “Thermonuclear device” during Pokhran test - do we have a missile deliverable 1 MT+ warhead — True Fission-Fusion-Fission (Teller-Ulam design) or do we have boosted fission (layered-cake) kind of stuff?

Having 1MT+ (heck even 200 to 400 KT, when Hiroshima was ~15KT, Nagasaki was ~22 KT for reference) warheads on a MIRV (with proper and guaranteed second strike capability) is a nightmare for any adversary.