Indian Navy LHD/LPD Amphibious Ships : Updates & Discussions

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Indian Navy battles defense ministry over future of $3 billion contract

2XF2WN5OO5DW5IKNANUQ4MWOIM.jpg
Hindustan Shipyard, which has a shipyard at Visakhapatnam, India, was nominated by the Indian Ministry of Defence to build two of the ships that would be able to carry an army battalion, including tanks and armoured carriers. (Adityamadhav83/Wikimedia Commons)

NEW DELHI – A war of nerves has brewed between senior Indian Navy officials and the Ministry of Defence over the possible cancellation of a program to replace top priority landing dock platforms.

Despite requests made by several naval planners not to cancel the procurement of four landing platform docks from domestic shipyards, costing around $3 billion, MoD is threatening to withdraw the tender said a top Indian Navy official. MoD wants to cancel the tender, because one of the last two bidders faces severe financial crunch. Considering another was eliminated in 2015 due to bankruptcy, that leaves only one player in the fray.

After the original 2012 call for bids was cancelled, the MoD refloated the tender in 2017. After receiving both commercial and technical bids, and revalidating the bids five times, MoD is now threatening to cancel the project again amid RNEL’s significant debt and the rejection of a debt resolution plan by the consortium of bankers.

Despite requests, MoD officials declined to comment.

L&T Ltd has teamed with Navatia of Spain, while RNEL has forged partnership with Naval Group of France to construct the LPDs. The ships would be roughly 30,000 ton helicopter landing platforms with the ability to carry an army battalion, including tanks and armored carriers.

“If MoD cancels the much needed LPD program, it will be signalling that MoD does not want to pursue and promote ‘Make in India’ initiatives," said a senior representative of the industry chamber Confederation of Indian Industries.

If the program is withdrawn, it will be the second time an LPD tender will be cancelled by MoD within the last 15 years.

Indian Navy battles defense ministry over future of $3 billion contract
 
Gautam said:
Indian Navy battles defense ministry over future of $3 billion contract

2XF2WN5OO5DW5IKNANUQ4MWOIM.jpg
Hindustan Shipyard, which has a shipyard at Visakhapatnam, India, was nominated by the Indian Ministry of Defence to build two of the ships that would be able to carry an army battalion, including tanks and armoured carriers. (Adityamadhav83/Wikimedia Commons)

NEW DELHI – A war of nerves has brewed between senior Indian Navy officials and the Ministry of Defence over the possible cancellation of a program to replace top priority landing dock platforms.

Despite requests made by several naval planners not to cancel the procurement of four landing platform docks from domestic shipyards, costing around $3 billion, MoD is threatening to withdraw the tender said a top Indian Navy official. MoD wants to cancel the tender, because one of the last two bidders faces severe financial crunch. Considering another was eliminated in 2015 due to bankruptcy, that leaves only one player in the fray.

After the original 2012 call for bids was cancelled, the MoD refloated the tender in 2017. After receiving both commercial and technical bids, and revalidating the bids five times, MoD is now threatening to cancel the project again amid RNEL’s significant debt and the rejection of a debt resolution plan by the consortium of bankers.

Despite requests, MoD officials declined to comment.

L&T Ltd has teamed with Navatia of Spain, while RNEL has forged partnership with Naval Group of France to construct the LPDs. The ships would be roughly 30,000 ton helicopter landing platforms with the ability to carry an army battalion, including tanks and armored carriers.

“If MoD cancels the much needed LPD program, it will be signalling that MoD does not want to pursue and promote ‘Make in India’ initiatives," said a senior representative of the industry chamber Confederation of Indian Industries.

If the program is withdrawn, it will be the second time an LPD tender will be cancelled by MoD within the last 15 years.

Indian Navy battles defense ministry over future of $3 billion contract
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Expected. But they should continue the process and then sign up for the ships using the same bid amount with Navantia and L&T. The IN needs these ships.

With RNEL's exit, any future tender will also be single vendor anyway, since only L&T has an active private shipyard now.
 
NEW DELHI – A war of nerves has brewed between senior Indian Navy officials and the Ministry of Defence over the possible cancellation of a program to replace top priority landing dock platforms.


Despite requests made by several naval planners not to cancel the procurement of four landing platform docks from domestic shipyards, costing around $3 billion, MoD is threatening to withdraw the tender said a top Indian Navy official. MoD wants to cancel the tender, because one of the last two bidders faces severe financial crunch. Considering another was eliminated in 2015 due to bankruptcy, that leaves only one player in the fray.


After the original 2012 call for bids was cancelled, the MoD refloated the tender in 2017. After receiving both commercial and technical bids, and revalidating the bids five times, MoD is now threatening to cancel the project again amid RNEL’s significant debt and the rejection of a debt resolution plan by the consortium of bankers.


Despite requests, MoD officials declined to comment.


L&T Ltd has teamed with Navatia of Spain, while RNEL has forged partnership with Naval Group of France to construct the LPDs. The ships would be roughly 30,000 ton helicopter landing platforms with the ability to carry an army battalion, including tanks and armored carriers.


“If MoD cancels the much needed LPD program, it will be signalling that MoD does not want to pursue and promote ‘Make in India’ initiatives," said a senior representative of the industry chamber Confederation of Indian Industries.


If the program is withdrawn, it will be the second time an LPD tender will be cancelled by MoD within the last 15 years.

Indian Navy battles defense ministry over future of $3 billion contract
 
Its not that hard of a choice to make. Disqualify everyone else and select L&T as the single bidder. If IAF can go ahead with single bidder situation on the Avro replacement which selected TATA-Airbus, why not IN?
 
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Here we go......again.:rolleyes:

Indian Navy seeks cancellation of $2.8 B amphibious warfare ship (LPD) tender

L&T-Navantia, Reliance-Naval Group commercial bids left unopened; re-tendering with revised service requirements likely for building India's second-largest warships

September 18, 2019 By Vishal Thapar Photo(s): By Navantia, Naval Group
1572758074850.png

Navantia's Juan Carlos I LHD even has a STOVL capability to launch deck-based fighter aircraft

The Indian Navy has sought the approval of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to cancel a $2.8 Billion (Rs 20,000 Crore) tender for building 4 Landing Platform Docks (LPDs) or amphibious warfare ships which was meant to be the largest shipbuilding contract for a private sector Indian shipyard.

The Navy wants to move this procurement case afresh and re-tender with revised terms and quality requirements.

"We've moved the case to the MoD to let us withdraw the LPD tender and re-visit our requirements. We're awaiting a response," Vice-Chief of Naval Staff Vice-Admiral G Ashok Kumar told this reporter.

The Indian Navy did not open the price bids, pushing the project into a limbo. While no official statement was made to explain the reluctance to open the price bids for determining an 'L1' winner, the Navy is reported to have had grave reservations over the ability of one of the bidders to deliver on the contract

Larsen & Toubro and Reliance Naval and Engineering Limited were competing for this Buy and Make (India) tender in partnership with Spain's Navantia and France's Naval Group respectively. The two had submitted bids for constructing LPDs based on the design of the Juan Carlos I and Mistral respectively at the Katupalli and Pipavav shipyards.

After a go-ahead to the project by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) chaired by the then Defence Minister Arun Jaitley in May 2017, the two contenders had submitted revised commercial bids to build all four ships. The initial proposal in the December 2013 tender envisaged construction of two LPDs by a private sector shipyard and the remaining two at the Ministry of Defence-owned Hindustan Shipyard Limited.

1572758006021.png

Naval Group's Mistral was a strong contender for the Indian Navy's LPD tender, which presented the biggest shipbuilding opportunity to private Indian yards

But the Indian Navy did not open the price bids, pushing the project into a limbo. While no official statement was made to explain the reluctance to open the price bids for determining an 'L1' winner, the Navy is reported to have had grave reservations over the ability of one of the bidders to deliver on the contract.

The Navy has now finally moved to end the impasse, and sought cancellation of the contract on grounds of the inordinate delay creating the need to revise quality requirements which were determined over a decade ago. "The service requirements were frozen in 2008. Withdrawal of this tender will give us an opportunity to revisit the requirements. We've requested the MoD for approval," the Vice-Chief of Naval Staff told SP's Naval Forces.

With the programme now up for re-tendering, it is likely that the public sector too could be allowed to bid, sources indicated, to avoid a single-vendor situation and make the competition more broad based. It could also give an opportunity to other OEMs including BAE Systems (Ocean class LHD), Raytheon (San Antonio class LPD), ThyssenKrupp (MHD-150), Hanjin Heavy Industries (Dokdo class assault landing ship) and Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (Enforcer LPD) to enter the fray as technology providers

This tender presented the biggest opportunity so far to private Indian shipyards. Also, it involved building the largest warships in India after the under-construction aircraft carrier Vikrant.

The Indian Navy moved the case for building 20-30,000-ton class LPDs after the experience of operating the INS Jalashwa, the erstwhile USS Trenton which was acquired from the US Navy in 2007. These vessels are meant to scale up India's out of area amphibious warfare, island protection and disaster response capabilities. The requirements specified a capability to carry 10 heavy helicopters on the deck - making it a virtual helicopter carrier - besides over 900 amphibious troops, 20 infantry combat vehicles and 40 heavy trucks in its belly for a beach landing. The Juan Carlos I, which has also been built for the Australian and Turkish navies, also has a short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) capability for deck-borne fighters like the F-35.

Specified on board weapons including point missile defence and anti-torpedo systems, along with an endurance of 45 days at sea were among the features meant to give this ship the capability of becoming a naval command post. These LPDs were also meant to be India's first electric propulsion warships.

The RFP was issued in December 2013 also to ABG Shipyard, besides Pipavav (later acquired by Reliance) and L&T. ABG, which had partnered the US' Alion, was later disqualified reportedly because of poor financial condition.

With the programme now up for re-tendering, it is likely that the public sector too could be allowed to bid, sources indicated, to avoid a single-vendor situation and make the competition more broad based. It could also give an opportunity to other OEMs including BAE Systems (Ocean class LHD), Raytheon (San Antonio class LPD), ThyssenKrupp (MHD-150), Hanjin Heavy Industries (Dokdo class assault landing ship) and Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (Enforcer LPD) to enter the fray as technology providers.

Indian Navy seeks cancellation of $2.8B amphibious warfare ship (LPD) tender
 
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Gautam said:
Here we go......again.:rolleyes:

Indian Navy seeks cancellation of $2.8 B amphibious warfare ship (LPD) tender

L&T-Navantia, Reliance-Naval Group commercial bids left unopened; re-tendering with revised service requirements likely for building India's second-largest warships

September 18, 2019 By Vishal Thapar Photo(s): By Navantia, Naval Group
View attachment 11143
Navantia's Juan Carlos I LHD even has a STOVL capability to launch deck-based fighter aircraft

The Indian Navy has sought the approval of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to cancel a $2.8 Billion (Rs 20,000 Crore) tender for building 4 Landing Platform Docks (LPDs) or amphibious warfare ships which was meant to be the largest shipbuilding contract for a private sector Indian shipyard.

The Navy wants to move this procurement case afresh and re-tender with revised terms and quality requirements.

"We've moved the case to the MoD to let us withdraw the LPD tender and re-visit our requirements. We're awaiting a response," Vice-Chief of Naval Staff Vice-Admiral G Ashok Kumar told this reporter.

The Indian Navy did not open the price bids, pushing the project into a limbo. While no official statement was made to explain the reluctance to open the price bids for determining an 'L1' winner, the Navy is reported to have had grave reservations over the ability of one of the bidders to deliver on the contract

Larsen & Toubro and Reliance Naval and Engineering Limited were competing for this Buy and Make (India) tender in partnership with Spain's Navantia and France's Naval Group respectively. The two had submitted bids for constructing LPDs based on the design of the Juan Carlos I and Mistral respectively at the Katupalli and Pipavav shipyards.

After a go-ahead to the project by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) chaired by the then Defence Minister Arun Jaitley in May 2017, the two contenders had submitted revised commercial bids to build all four ships. The initial proposal in the December 2013 tender envisaged construction of two LPDs by a private sector shipyard and the remaining two at the Ministry of Defence-owned Hindustan Shipyard Limited.

View attachment 11142
Naval Group's Mistral was a strong contender for the Indian Navy's LPD tender, which presented the biggest shipbuilding opportunity to private Indian yards

But the Indian Navy did not open the price bids, pushing the project into a limbo. While no official statement was made to explain the reluctance to open the price bids for determining an 'L1' winner, the Navy is reported to have had grave reservations over the ability of one of the bidders to deliver on the contract.

The Navy has now finally moved to end the impasse, and sought cancellation of the contract on grounds of the inordinate delay creating the need to revise quality requirements which were determined over a decade ago. "The service requirements were frozen in 2008. Withdrawal of this tender will give us an opportunity to revisit the requirements. We've requested the MoD for approval," the Vice-Chief of Naval Staff told SP's Naval Forces.

With the programme now up for re-tendering, it is likely that the public sector too could be allowed to bid, sources indicated, to avoid a single-vendor situation and make the competition more broad based. It could also give an opportunity to other OEMs including BAE Systems (Ocean class LHD), Raytheon (San Antonio class LPD), ThyssenKrupp (MHD-150), Hanjin Heavy Industries (Dokdo class assault landing ship) and Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (Enforcer LPD) to enter the fray as technology providers

This tender presented the biggest opportunity so far to private Indian shipyards. Also, it involved building the largest warships in India after the under-construction aircraft carrier Vikrant.

The Indian Navy moved the case for building 20-30,000-ton class LPDs after the experience of operating the INS Jalashwa, the erstwhile USS Trenton which was acquired from the US Navy in 2007. These vessels are meant to scale up India's out of area amphibious warfare, island protection and disaster response capabilities. The requirements specified a capability to carry 10 heavy helicopters on the deck - making it a virtual helicopter carrier - besides over 900 amphibious troops, 20 infantry combat vehicles and 40 heavy trucks in its belly for a beach landing. The Juan Carlos I, which has also been built for the Australian and Turkish navies, also has a short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) capability for deck-borne fighters like the F-35.

Specified on board weapons including point missile defence and anti-torpedo systems, along with an endurance of 45 days at sea were among the features meant to give this ship the capability of becoming a naval command post. These LPDs were also meant to be India's first electric propulsion warships.

The RFP was issued in December 2013 also to ABG Shipyard, besides Pipavav (later acquired by Reliance) and L&T. ABG, which had partnered the US' Alion, was later disqualified reportedly because of poor financial condition.

With the programme now up for re-tendering, it is likely that the public sector too could be allowed to bid, sources indicated, to avoid a single-vendor situation and make the competition more broad based. It could also give an opportunity to other OEMs including BAE Systems (Ocean class LHD), Raytheon (San Antonio class LPD), ThyssenKrupp (MHD-150), Hanjin Heavy Industries (Dokdo class assault landing ship) and Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (Enforcer LPD) to enter the fray as technology providers.

Indian Navy seeks cancellation of $2.8B amphibious warfare ship (LPD) tender
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Bravo , how many years were wasted and how many more will be wasted🤐🤐
 
Gautam said:
Sandeep Unnithan writes about the LPD program :

View attachment 11404
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I am not a supporter of LHD project for now, but the 2015-16 document for projected future projects for Navy did mention requirement of 5 Multipurpose Amphibious Assault Support Vessels, not 4. Thought it aint approved yet. But MoD and Navy did acknowledge the need for 5 such vessels.

Similarly they acknowledged need for half dozen modern Tank Landing Ships capable of bringing fight ready assault units on beach, maybe a replacement of Magar and alike classes. Not approved yet too.

Plus 1 Amphibious Assault Training Vessel too, not approved, just acknowledged.

I am unable to find that file, MoD has removed it from its website too it seems.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Training only primarily. 12-18 pieces maybe for INS Vicky and IAC 1 for now. Coz we all know Mig29K ..... and the BAE Hawks are all shore based(I wish we chose the carrier capable versions for Hawk like USN did) . Deck based training would be good... Help us refine and update our standards.

And if it can take off with 4 AAMs and a 8222 , should be handy as a ADF unit.

Availability, Reliability and Take Off capability of Mig29K ain't hidden. If it betters them, maybe use it for advanced training.
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Most likely LPD tender will be refloated with LHD designs to make them small carriers capable of operating fighters as well. The Canberra class can be very easily converted to such a design with angled deck and arresting system.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
I am not a supporter of LHD project for now, but the 2015-16 document for projected future projects for Navy did mention requirement of 5 Multipurpose Amphibious Assault Support Vessels, not 4. Thought it aint approved yet. But MoD and Navy did acknowledge the need for 5 such vessels.
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That is the same India-SK later India-Turkey support ship project.

Seven global players had initially responded to the Request for Proposal including the German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), Italy based Fincantieri, Navantia from Spain, Rosboronexports (ROE) from Russia and Turkey’s Anadolu Shipyard for the construction of five ships under the FSS project at the estimated cost of $ 2.3 billion. Out of these only three including TKMS, ROE and Turkey’s Anadolu Shipyard were shortlisted.
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The idea is something like JSS.

Joint Support Ship - Wikipedia
 
vstol Jockey said:
Most likely LPD tender will be refloated with LHD designs to make them small carriers capable of operating fighters as well. The Canberra class can be very easily converted to such a design with angled deck and arresting system.
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Personally speaking we should put a hold on those for 5 years. Untill we have enough SSNs and Air Defence units active, won't make sense to invest hugely on these things.

We should put all our efforts on building more SSNs and SSBNs meanwhile filling gaps in capabilities like Minesweepers, Submarine Support/Recuse Ships, Replenishment vessels, Intelligence and Communication ships and helicopters along with P8I and Sea Guardian Combo.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
Most likely LPD tender will be refloated with LHD designs to make them small carriers capable of operating fighters as well. The Canberra class can be very easily converted to such a design with angled deck and arresting system.
Click to expand...

Canberra class is basically a derivative of Spain's Juan Carlos.

Also, I think the navy is interested in only operating helicopters from it. The problem with making it carry fighter jets is, the air complement will be so small that it will only be an air defence ship rather than a carrier. Even the bigger America class ships are no more than air defence ships. Not to mention, IAC-2 will eventually give birth to IAC-3 and IAC-4 and so on. The only major benefit to this is it can perform power projection during peacetime.
 
randomradio said:
Canberra class is basically a derivative of Spain's Juan Carlos.

Also, I think the navy is interested in only operating helicopters from it. The problem with making it carry fighter jets is, the air complement will be so small that it will only be an air defence ship rather than a carrier. Even the bigger America class ships are no more than air defence ships. Not to mention, IAC-2 will eventually give birth to IAC-3 and IAC-4 and so on. The only major benefit to this is it can perform power projection during peacetime.
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More than 120 countries in the world do not have an airforce. India is looking to dominate IOR. These ships with limited fixed wing fleet can operate independently in IOR without the need for major fixed wing support from legacy carriers.
In case of hostilities with a stronger adversary, these ships can operate as pure helicopter carriers while the air defence is provided by legacy carriers.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
More than 120 countries in the world do not have an airforce. India is looking to dominate IOR. These ships with limited fixed wing fleet can operate independently in IOR without the need for major fixed wing support from legacy carriers.
In case of hostilities with a stronger adversary, these ships can operate as pure helicopter carriers while the air defence is provided by legacy carriers.
Click to expand...

The problem is the LHD's interal cargo space is reduced drastically, to the point that even a large ship like the America class does not have a well deck at all. They removed the well deck only so they can operate 20 fighter jets.

The Turkish Juan Carlos was modified to carry just 12 F-35Bs at best.

So if we are to use fighter jets without modifications to its capability as a helicopter carrier, then at best we can only carry 4-6 fighter jets at a time. So if the fighter jet is not STOVL or VTOL, that can use existing helicopter infrastructure, then it will become pointless.

If CTOL fighters are to be used, then these 4 LHDs should remain LHDs, and we should buy 2 more LHDs that are dedicated air defence ships without well decks so that they can be used optimally. Or else you will neither be here nor there.
 
vstol Jockey said:
It was designed to carry 12xHarriers besides its normal compliment of infantry and assault grp. I am talking of a hybrid LHD capable of operating as a carrier also should there be any need.
Click to expand...

STOVL and VTOL should be fine. But CTOL is going to be extremely difficult.
 
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