From where do people bring such gossips? Nuclear boat going at 28 knots while remaining silent???
Indian Nuclear Attack Submarine (Project 77) - Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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Why can't they ?.... Silent here means marginal increase in dB levels. Virginia SSN are quieter at flank speeds than Los Angele parked at docks.
I don't believe it's a coincidence and SSN construction started post Arihant SSBN class submarines construction completion as now 4th submarine is also launched which indicates production/assembly facility should be idle and can be used for SSN?
Both SSN and S-5 are to be built simultaneously, so expanded facilities are necessary.
These submarines are being built at two different places with only the final assembly taking place in Vizag.
Hazira will still build the large modular blocks so its a matter of assembling and associated work at 2 places. Already almost the double work for a new class. Which they handled well of course.
It looks like L&T even though isn't getting any conventional submarine contracts. Its facilities are now fully booked for S5, upcoming SSN.
If each SSK is going to cost $1 billion, why not invest in SSNs instead? All Western nations capable of building SSNs have opted for them. I still haven’t been convinced that there’s any mission where an SSK can be more efficient or cost-effective than other assets.
1. **SSK with VLS loaded missiles like BrahMos or other anti-ship missiles** – An SSK would still require a command-sensor network since it can’t detect targets 1,000 km away on its own. If such a network exists, wouldn’t ships be a cheaper platform to launch these missiles? Or even fighter jets or drones? When it comes to an anti-ship role using VLS-loaded missiles, a submarine seems highly inefficient compared to fighter jets with AShMs, coastal batteries, something like Rapid Dragon cargo planes, MPAs, or drones.
2. **SSK armed with torpedoes against enemy ships** – This seems like a suicide mission because, as mentioned in point 1, there are cheaper and more effective ways to neutralize enemy ships. If you're relying on torpedoes, you're likely facing not a single ship, but a group of them. In that case, the chances of surviving after firing are very low.
3. **SSK vs. SSN** – There’s no need for much explanation here. If the first strike isn’t a guaranteed kill, the SSK becomes a sitting duck. In this ambush role, wouldn’t something like an XLUUV (about 500 tons) be a better option? I’m still not convinced why a human is needed in this scenario. After all, a human is only reacting to what the sensors detect, and this could easily be programmed into the system.
My opinion is that the Indian Navy should focus solely on SSNs. Right now, with an SSK costing $1 billion, SSNs make more sense. Cost-effectiveness and PSU shipyards don’t go hand in hand, and whatever roles like coastal defense, ambushes, and ISR an SSK might perform could be handled more efficiently by unmanned submarines.
Feel free to refute or discuss.
1. **SSK with VLS loaded missiles like BrahMos or other anti-ship missiles** – An SSK would still require a command-sensor network since it can’t detect targets 1,000 km away on its own. If such a network exists, wouldn’t ships be a cheaper platform to launch these missiles? Or even fighter jets or drones? When it comes to an anti-ship role using VLS-loaded missiles, a submarine seems highly inefficient compared to fighter jets with AShMs, coastal batteries, something like Rapid Dragon cargo planes, MPAs, or drones.
2. **SSK armed with torpedoes against enemy ships** – This seems like a suicide mission because, as mentioned in point 1, there are cheaper and more effective ways to neutralize enemy ships. If you're relying on torpedoes, you're likely facing not a single ship, but a group of them. In that case, the chances of surviving after firing are very low.
3. **SSK vs. SSN** – There’s no need for much explanation here. If the first strike isn’t a guaranteed kill, the SSK becomes a sitting duck. In this ambush role, wouldn’t something like an XLUUV (about 500 tons) be a better option? I’m still not convinced why a human is needed in this scenario. After all, a human is only reacting to what the sensors detect, and this could easily be programmed into the system.
My opinion is that the Indian Navy should focus solely on SSNs. Right now, with an SSK costing $1 billion, SSNs make more sense. Cost-effectiveness and PSU shipyards don’t go hand in hand, and whatever roles like coastal defense, ambushes, and ISR an SSK might perform could be handled more efficiently by unmanned submarines.
Feel free to refute or discuss.
SSK = 10k crore INR
SSN = 20k crore INR
Both figures are adjusted for inflation.
SSN still costs a lot more than a conventional submarine.
Iam not sure even if an SSK costs half, it brings even half of the SSN capability.
SSN advantages outweigh SSK by a factor of stone age to modern age..... SSK has basically no practicality in modern warfare other than at choke points with suicide mission in mind against a formidable surface fleet.
Regarding the choke point mission, its essentially a suicide mission hoping that first volley hits enemy otherwise its game over. This can be done easily with a XLUUV loaded to brim with torpedoes. Well IN and MoD should had scrapped that P75I and P76 and spend that money on SSNs only. Its like getting 1/10th of capability with 2/3rd or half cost of an SSN. Those 9 Kalvari class are enough for coastal needs and training.
Where is the report about submarine?
If we have developed, then why do we need France? At least be consistent with the argument.
Shakti torpedo is a failed/closed project.
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Then you need more ships. So it's better to increase VLS count with existing assets, like submarines.
The same with aircraft, especially places where aircraft cannot go to without significant supporting assets.
Subs are used for this role. And subs have a lot of torpedoes, not just 1. Getting first shot is the main goal.
SSKs also have the ability to hide and run away. Batteries provide sufficient endurance and speed when submerged.
We can buy 3 SSKs for the price of 1 SSN, hence there's a cost component involved. Plus we have a littoral requirement where SSKs can do a much better job.
If we got for SSN-only fleet, then someone else has to provide SSKs, like the case with NATO. American, British and French SSNs are complemented by European and Japanese SSKs.
I doubt AI's reached the point where the entire kill chain is fully autonomous. Hunting and killing still requires human minds.
DRDO themselves announced a 35 MW motor with pumpjet propulsion.
And what makes you think anybody is going to give us everything we want? Kaveri is Indian, but we still need both Russian and French assistance.
And who said Shakti is dead?
what means "very quiet" ?
Maybe quiet for a russian sub....
In the west it is aknoledge that 20knots more or less is the maximum stealthy speed, and probably more in the 15 knots region.
Rushing at 25+ knots is only good to try to escape a torpedo or to rush to a station in an urgency but non stealthy mode.
Can submarine in future go more quite if say they use liquid metal cooled reactors ?........ You can have high thermal efficiency + no need for mechanical pumps.....Since liquid metal can be pumped using magnets making submarine very very quite even at higher speeds.