Indian Space Program: News & Discussions
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India's Mars orbiter craft completes eight years in orbit
The Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) -- a technology demonstration venture -- is the maiden interplanetary mission of the national space agency, the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO). Launched on November 5, 2013, the probe was successfully inserted into Martian orbit on September 24, 2014 in...
Mangalyaan quietly bids goodbye: India's maiden Mars mission runs out of fuel
India's maiden mars mission has, reportedly, completed its journey as Mangalyaan ran out of fuel. Isro is yet to officially announce.
www.indiatoday.in
Mangalyaan quietly bids goodbye: India's maiden Mars mission runs out of fuel
India's maiden mars mission has, reportedly, completed its journey as Mangalyaan ran out of fuel. Isro is yet to officially announce.
21st October 2022 will be a big day for ISRO & the GSLV Mk-3/LMV-3. The 1st fully commercial mission of the Mk-3. ISRO signed a deal with OneWeb in October last year to launch their satellites. One year later we will see the launch taking place form the 2nd launch pad of the SDSC at 18:42 IST. This will be the only Mk-3 launch this year.
The mission named "LVM3 M2/OneWeb India-1 Mission" will see the Mk-3 carry 36 OneWeb satellites to 450km polar orbit. The satellites have arrived in India sometime back. The satellite integration with the Mk-3's payload fairing is complete.
As for the rocket ISRO says: "The 2 solid strap-on boosters and the liquid core stage of LVM3 have been fully integrated at the second launch pad at Sriharikota. In the coming days, the integration of the cryogenic upper stage of the launch vehicle and the integration of payload fairing with 36 satellites will take place"
The combined payload of this mission is a whooping 5.4 metric tons! Significantly heavier that the MK-3 previous mission Chandrayaan-2 which was only 3.85 tons. On paper the max payload capacity of the Mk-3 is 4 tons. ISRO wanted to improve the payload to 6 tons. The payload capacity of 6-8 tons will be addressed by the upcoming HLV family.
Some slides from old ISRO presentation where they talked about Mk-3's payload growth:
ISRO wanted to improve Mk-3's payload capacity by doing the following incrementally:
1. Weight Optimization by using more composites, employing topological/aerodynamic optimization where needed, using iso-grid structures on the inter-stages etc. would take the payload to 4.4 tons.
2. Replacing the current Vikas engine powered L-110 hypergolic stage with a S-200 powered SC-120 semi-cryogenic stage. This would take payload to 5 tons.
3. Increasing the propellant loading of the cryogenic upper stage from the current 25 tons to 32 tons. This would take payload capacity to 6 tons.
So, has ISRO completed all those upgrades? Probably not. They have completed some, but not all of that. We know that in 2019 IPRC, Mahendragiri called for a tender for supply of trailers to transport the new C-32 & SC-120 stages. The trailers will be pulled by an AMW 4018 truck. The trailers will be used to move tanks to various places within the Mahendragiri facility & then to move the completed stages to the assembly buildings.
By 2020, HAL had already started producing & supplying the new tanks for the C32 stage:
HAL recently opened a new integrated semi-cryogenic engine manufacturing facility. This facility will supply the SCE-200 engine & other auxiliary components needed to operate the engine:
I had speculated in the past that HAL had supplied ISRO with the fuel tank for the SC-120 stage. The large tank on the right side of the slide below is probably the fuel tank of the SC-120 stage:
While upgrading from C-25 to a C-32 stage is relatively easy given both stages use the same engine, upgrading from the L-110 to SC-120 is hardly that simple. For starters we don't know if a fully assembled SCE-200 engine was hot tested yet. We know the individual components have been cold/wet/hot tested then the full engine was cold/wet tested in India. For hot testing the engine was sent to Ukraine, we haven't heard anything since. The engine was sent at least a year before the war broke out. If we haven't tested it before the war stated, I doubt we can test it now. ISRO's own test stand is still a few months from being ready & the OneWeb mission launch is coming up in 2 weeks.
I don't think we will see the new SC-120 stage on the LMV-3 in the upcoming launch. However, we can witness the debut of the new C32 stage. NOIT just deployed a tracking ship for the upcoming launch:
Sea based tracking can generate more accurate telemetry data for upper stages. Tracking ships weren't used for the last GSLV-Mk3 mission. Maybe we will see the C-32 in this launch, or maybe it's a pre-cautionary measure.
If we can achieve 5.4 ton payload with just launch vehicle optimization & the C-32 stage, I imagine we can achieve 6.5-7 tons when the C-120 stage becomes operational. Maybe someday ISRO can launch their I-6K bus communication satellites with their own launchers instead of depending on Arianespace.
The mission named "LVM3 M2/OneWeb India-1 Mission" will see the Mk-3 carry 36 OneWeb satellites to 450km polar orbit. The satellites have arrived in India sometime back. The satellite integration with the Mk-3's payload fairing is complete.
As for the rocket ISRO says: "The 2 solid strap-on boosters and the liquid core stage of LVM3 have been fully integrated at the second launch pad at Sriharikota. In the coming days, the integration of the cryogenic upper stage of the launch vehicle and the integration of payload fairing with 36 satellites will take place"
The combined payload of this mission is a whooping 5.4 metric tons! Significantly heavier that the MK-3 previous mission Chandrayaan-2 which was only 3.85 tons. On paper the max payload capacity of the Mk-3 is 4 tons. ISRO wanted to improve the payload to 6 tons. The payload capacity of 6-8 tons will be addressed by the upcoming HLV family.
Some slides from old ISRO presentation where they talked about Mk-3's payload growth:
ISRO wanted to improve Mk-3's payload capacity by doing the following incrementally:
1. Weight Optimization by using more composites, employing topological/aerodynamic optimization where needed, using iso-grid structures on the inter-stages etc. would take the payload to 4.4 tons.
2. Replacing the current Vikas engine powered L-110 hypergolic stage with a S-200 powered SC-120 semi-cryogenic stage. This would take payload to 5 tons.
3. Increasing the propellant loading of the cryogenic upper stage from the current 25 tons to 32 tons. This would take payload capacity to 6 tons.
So, has ISRO completed all those upgrades? Probably not. They have completed some, but not all of that. We know that in 2019 IPRC, Mahendragiri called for a tender for supply of trailers to transport the new C-32 & SC-120 stages. The trailers will be pulled by an AMW 4018 truck. The trailers will be used to move tanks to various places within the Mahendragiri facility & then to move the completed stages to the assembly buildings.
By 2020, HAL had already started producing & supplying the new tanks for the C32 stage:
HAL recently opened a new integrated semi-cryogenic engine manufacturing facility. This facility will supply the SCE-200 engine & other auxiliary components needed to operate the engine:
I had speculated in the past that HAL had supplied ISRO with the fuel tank for the SC-120 stage. The large tank on the right side of the slide below is probably the fuel tank of the SC-120 stage:
While upgrading from C-25 to a C-32 stage is relatively easy given both stages use the same engine, upgrading from the L-110 to SC-120 is hardly that simple. For starters we don't know if a fully assembled SCE-200 engine was hot tested yet. We know the individual components have been cold/wet/hot tested then the full engine was cold/wet tested in India. For hot testing the engine was sent to Ukraine, we haven't heard anything since. The engine was sent at least a year before the war broke out. If we haven't tested it before the war stated, I doubt we can test it now. ISRO's own test stand is still a few months from being ready & the OneWeb mission launch is coming up in 2 weeks.
I don't think we will see the new SC-120 stage on the LMV-3 in the upcoming launch. However, we can witness the debut of the new C32 stage. NOIT just deployed a tracking ship for the upcoming launch:
Sea based tracking can generate more accurate telemetry data for upper stages. Tracking ships weren't used for the last GSLV-Mk3 mission. Maybe we will see the C-32 in this launch, or maybe it's a pre-cautionary measure.
If we can achieve 5.4 ton payload with just launch vehicle optimization & the C-32 stage, I imagine we can achieve 6.5-7 tons when the C-120 stage becomes operational. Maybe someday ISRO can launch their I-6K bus communication satellites with their own launchers instead of depending on Arianespace.
The NISAR project is going well it seems. Got some new photos here:
Multimedia | Resources – NASA-ISRO SAR Mission (NISAR)
Multimedia | Resources – NASA-ISRO SAR Mission (NISAR)
Found a good render of the upcoming SC-120 stage with SCE-200 engine:
Here are some slides from a recent presentation:
The Next Gen LV (NGLV) shown here was previously called HLV-R. R as in reusable.
You can see the configuration of the rocket below:
It seems they have started hot testing components for the Methalox upper stage engine:
ISRO has 2 new Methalox upper stage engines under development. One of them is a derivative of the CE-20 Hydrolox engine. The CE-20 is a Gas Generator cycle type engine. ISRO has a lot of experience with GG cycle. The Vikas, CE-7.5 & the CE-20 are all GG cycle engines. This CE-20 engine derivative will also produce 200-220 KN thrust, similar to the original.
The 2nd Methalox engine might take a while. ISRO is planning to employ either a Fuel Rich Staged Combustion Cycle or an Expander-Bleeder cycle. They don't have a lot of experience with either of those two cycles.
When developed both of these engines might be clustered replace cryogenic engines in the upper stage of ISRO's rockets.
There was some talk about the satellite market & how small satellite launches will grow in the space sectors for decades to come:
India has quite a few small satellite launchers that are coming up:
Here are some slides from a recent presentation:
The Next Gen LV (NGLV) shown here was previously called HLV-R. R as in reusable.
You can see the configuration of the rocket below:
It seems they have started hot testing components for the Methalox upper stage engine:
ISRO has 2 new Methalox upper stage engines under development. One of them is a derivative of the CE-20 Hydrolox engine. The CE-20 is a Gas Generator cycle type engine. ISRO has a lot of experience with GG cycle. The Vikas, CE-7.5 & the CE-20 are all GG cycle engines. This CE-20 engine derivative will also produce 200-220 KN thrust, similar to the original.
The 2nd Methalox engine might take a while. ISRO is planning to employ either a Fuel Rich Staged Combustion Cycle or an Expander-Bleeder cycle. They don't have a lot of experience with either of those two cycles.
When developed both of these engines might be clustered replace cryogenic engines in the upper stage of ISRO's rockets.
There was some talk about the satellite market & how small satellite launches will grow in the space sectors for decades to come:
India has quite a few small satellite launchers that are coming up:
Thank you! Gautam! I appreciate all the work you put into gathering the data and posting it on the forum.
Some pictures of the OneWeb satellite launch mission:
continued....
continued....
Hopefully should succed.Last time, I made the kids to see the live launch.. Which went almost normal until before the last celebration..
And got big disappointment.
For us, it's acceptable for DRDO to have failures. But ISRO, we expect perfection from them with very high regards , with history legends coming from there.
Yep, ISRO's had some bad luck recently. I think this launch will be at mid-night. So, I won't be able to follow it live.
Last time, I made the kids to see the live launch.. Which went almost normal until before the last celebration..
And got big disappointment.
This is the right expectation to have given DRDO launches/tests new systems all the time while most of ISRO's missions are routine launches of proven reliable rockets.
But on the occasions when ISRO does a technically challenging mission, like sending a rover to the moon or the 1st flight of a completely new launcher, we should understand that things can go wrong. ISRO's has built a reputation that any mistake is scorned upon.
I wonder how the Indian public will react to say the Gaganyaan mission. I mean if things go as planned there will be adulations all around. But, God forbid, if things go wrong.......
As we as a nation take on more challenging missions, be it space or otherwise, we need to grow a more tolerant to failures/mishaps.
Some new info about the NGLV from a recent conference:
So, they are planning a LOX/Methane stage for all 3 stages of the rocket. The stages mentioned here are:
1. SC400: LOX/Kerosene reusable stage powered by multiple SCE-200 engines. Been under development for a while.
2. SC120: LOX/Kerosene stage powered by a single SCE-200 engine. In prototype manufacturing stage. Likely to be used on GSLV-Mk3/LMV3 rocket.
3. LM40: LOX/Methane stage powered by one or more of the CE-20 derived gas generator cycle methalox engine. The engine components have been hot tested.
4. LM120: LOX/Methane stage likely powered by multiple methalox engines. We don't know if this stage will use the CE-20 derived engine as there is another Methalox engine under development.
5. LM400: LOX/Methane reusable stage powered by multiple methalox engines. Probably the same engine used on the LM120 stage.
I hope the lower stage Methalox engine isn't a gas generator cycle engine. I hope they can convert the SCE-200 into a LOX/Methane engine. That would be ideal. Stage-combustion cycle engines, like the SCE-200, are generally more efficient than a GG cycle engine. Converting the SCE-200 would allow them to streamline manufacturing & recover the R&D cost of that engine.
So, they are planning a LOX/Methane stage for all 3 stages of the rocket. The stages mentioned here are:
1. SC400: LOX/Kerosene reusable stage powered by multiple SCE-200 engines. Been under development for a while.
2. SC120: LOX/Kerosene stage powered by a single SCE-200 engine. In prototype manufacturing stage. Likely to be used on GSLV-Mk3/LMV3 rocket.
3. LM40: LOX/Methane stage powered by one or more of the CE-20 derived gas generator cycle methalox engine. The engine components have been hot tested.
4. LM120: LOX/Methane stage likely powered by multiple methalox engines. We don't know if this stage will use the CE-20 derived engine as there is another Methalox engine under development.
5. LM400: LOX/Methane reusable stage powered by multiple methalox engines. Probably the same engine used on the LM120 stage.
I hope the lower stage Methalox engine isn't a gas generator cycle engine. I hope they can convert the SCE-200 into a LOX/Methane engine. That would be ideal. Stage-combustion cycle engines, like the SCE-200, are generally more efficient than a GG cycle engine. Converting the SCE-200 would allow them to streamline manufacturing & recover the R&D cost of that engine.
On paper, ISRO engines exist. We'll evaluate once we acquire the necessary technology.
Comparable, sure. We don't know if ISRO will convert the SCE-200 to a LOX/Methane engine or if they will start the engine development from scratch. For the sake of argument let's say they are converting the SC-200 & the converted engine will achieve the same specs as the SCE-200.
The Raptor would still be a superior engine. The Raptor would have a better engine cycle, more chamber pressure, less dry weight & a higher specific impulse. In 2 of those criteria (dry weight & chamber pressure) we will require better metallurgy & manufacturing processes to catch up to the Raptor. ISRO will get there relatively quickly.
But in the other 2 criteria any SCE-200 derivative cannot match the Raptor. SCE-200's Oxygen Rich Staged Combustion (ORSC) cycle cannot match the Raptor's Full Flow Staged Combustion (FFSC) cycle in efficiency even if the SCE-200 derivative is scaled up to produce more thrust than the Raptor.
I wrote about India's current status of rocket engines here (post #877): Indian Space Program: News & Discussions
Good news to start the day. Some tweets/photos/vids from the launch:
Integration video:
Tracking ship:
Just like the Chandrayaan-2 mission, LMV-3's upper stage over-performed again:
Update from OneWeb:
Some photos of the launch:
https://twitter.com/YashTwts/status/1583922533153181696
I think opening the launch gallery is one of the best PR ideas ISRO has had in a while. DD's coverage has been underwhelming.
Integration video:
Tracking ship:
Just like the Chandrayaan-2 mission, LMV-3's upper stage over-performed again:
Update from OneWeb:
Some photos of the launch:
https://twitter.com/YashTwts/status/1583922533153181696
I think opening the launch gallery is one of the best PR ideas ISRO has had in a while. DD's coverage has been underwhelming.
Interesting:
OneWeb to pay about Rs 2,000 crore to India for launching 72 satellites, says chairman Mittal - ET Telecom | Satcom.
So OneWeb & NSIL signed a contract worth Rs. 2000 crore or ~$242 million.
Cost of a LMV3 rocket is ~$46 million. 36 satellites per launcher, so 2 launchers in total. ~$196 million of total profit for 2 launches or ~$98 million profit per launch. Not bad, not bad at all.
It is good deal for OneWeb too. The recently cancelled contract for 72 satellites with Russia was worth ~$300 million. Now they are getting to get 72 satellites launched for ~$48 million less.
LMV3 has had just 5 launches so far, all of which were successful. But it still has a way to go to build a solid reputation in the commercial market. Once you have that reputation you can negotiate and get better deals. Also, ISRO is trying to increase the production rate from the current 2 rockets/year to 5 rockets/year. That is still too low.
OneWeb to pay about Rs 2,000 crore to India for launching 72 satellites, says chairman Mittal - ET Telecom | Satcom.
So OneWeb & NSIL signed a contract worth Rs. 2000 crore or ~$242 million.
Cost of a LMV3 rocket is ~$46 million. 36 satellites per launcher, so 2 launchers in total. ~$196 million of total profit for 2 launches or ~$98 million profit per launch. Not bad, not bad at all.
It is good deal for OneWeb too. The recently cancelled contract for 72 satellites with Russia was worth ~$300 million. Now they are getting to get 72 satellites launched for ~$48 million less.
LMV3 has had just 5 launches so far, all of which were successful. But it still has a way to go to build a solid reputation in the commercial market. Once you have that reputation you can negotiate and get better deals. Also, ISRO is trying to increase the production rate from the current 2 rockets/year to 5 rockets/year. That is still too low.