Indian UAV Procurement Programs : General Discussions

Hilarious, Nirbhay didnt even finish user trials. But somehow it was "fielded". Basic logic failed.


It failed to meet ASQR. How hard is it to understand ?

Google is free

Limited Nirbhay were inducted during Galwan

And ASQR of Tapas is impossible to meet with piston engine

How is it hard to understand?
 
ADE has failed to deliver any products to the armed forces in the last three decades, even though they had a head start in UAV development since the days of Nishant in 1990. The only success they had is target drone Lakshya. Nirbhay failed to meet the project requirements and was subsequently closed.

Developing a system is not an achievement, but delivering a product to the user is.
You also need to support the products, rather than doing whatever the military does

Supporting your hardware creates an ecosystem

Army in last 40-50 years has not managed a single program well. They had cancelled Tapas after placing impossible ASQR and in emergency procurement bought Hermes 900 which is even worse

1) Rifles-> Failed to replace INSAS in sweet 2026, and ran their atrocious multi barrel program in the 2010s

2) Snipers-> has failed to replace Dragunov despite looking for replacement since 2000s, beside buying some limited Sako

3) IFV-> Failed to induct any BMP 2 replacement

4) APC-> sent Whap down the rabbit hole and in 2026 only managed to induct 5-10 APCs

5) MBT> FRCV's QR was extremely difficult and they have still failed to start replacing the T72. Arjun saga, we're all aware of

6) ATGM-> NAG and derivatives have been running since 1980s with 108 units on order. And now they're licensing Javelin

7) Light tanks-> suddently want STANAG 6, one year before induction was to happen

8) Field rationalisation was to be completed next year but we're barely done 10% that includes orders

And so on
 
You also need to support the products, rather than doing whatever the military does

Supporting your hardware creates an ecosystem

Army in last 40-50 years has not managed a single program well. They had cancelled Tapas after placing impossible ASQR and in emergency procurement bought Hermes 900 which is even worse

1) Rifles-> Failed to replace INSAS in sweet 2026, and ran their atrocious multi barrel program in the 2010s

2) Snipers-> has failed to replace Dragunov despite looking for replacement since 2000s, beside buying some limited Sako

3) IFV-> Failed to induct any BMP 2 replacement

4) APC-> sent Whap down the rabbit hole and in 2026 only managed to induct 5-10 APCs

5) MBT> FRCV's QR was extremely difficult and they have still failed to start replacing the T72. Arjun saga, we're all aware of

6) ATGM-> NAG and derivatives have been running since 1980s with 108 units on order. And now they're licensing Javelin

7) Light tanks-> suddently want STANAG 6, one year before induction was to happen

8) Field rationalisation was to be completed next year but we're barely done 10% that includes orders

And so on
There is no impossible ASQR. It is negotiated with the DRDO team during project definition. When DRDO feels they can't achieve with their current technological availability, they start a TD (Technology Development) project. Recent example is ITCM. Its not a project to deliver but to mature and prove technologies towards next program which is LRLACM.

In military product development, failures are common. It's part of the process. The US has far more failures than successes.

In India, the biggest impediment is the procurement process itself. They are currently trying to reform in the right direction. The forces also still look at each procurement as a buyer, not as a collaborator. The DRDO's attitude of overpromising and underdelivering is also part of the issue. You can't put it on one side and generalize.


Google is free

Limited Nirbhay were inducted during Galwan

And ASQR of Tapas is impossible to meet with piston engine

How is it hard to understand?

You cant induct any system without finishing development. Made up talking point generated during conflict from south block.
 

Google is free

Limited Nirbhay were inducted during Galwan

And ASQR of Tapas is impossible to meet with piston engine

How is it hard to understand?
Do you understand what the term "inducted" means? which regiment was it inducted? Why would this so called "non supportive" army induct a failed DRDO product?

If ASQR is impossible then why would DRDO agreed to it? Why did they waste hundreds of crores of taxpayer money and what 15 years chasing this impossible UAV. Are you saying DRDO is utterly incompetent?

It seems to me that you will believe anything some certain defense tabloid posts against our forces.
 
The total requirement is around 150, so the purpose of this tender is to have half of them produced under license. There is no IDDM solution today. This is not a developmental contract but to acquire systems as fast as possible. Options are Heron, Hermes 900 and MQ-1C.
Yet neither the Hermes 900 nor the Heron Mk2 which are powered by the same Rotax series of piston engines come anywhere close to fulfilling the IAF's requirement for MALE UAV that can stay up in the air for 24 hours at an altitude of 30,000ft.

On the flipside, the Tapas Bh-201 did get pretty close to these figures by achieving a flight altitude of 28,000ft and endurance of 18 hours during flight trials.
 
Do you understand what the term "inducted" means? which regiment was it inducted? Why would this so called "non supportive" army induct a failed DRDO product?


.
If military stations some hardware with active units along with LAC with intent to potentially use it, it's induction

And I specificied limited induction over and over

>If ASQR is impossible then why would DRDO agreed to it? Why did they waste hundreds of crores of taxpayer money and what 15 years chasing this impossible UAV. Are you saying DRDO is utterly incompetent?

Blame game once again

Did army not realise they were asking the impossible?


DRDO usually agrees to this stuff unless they want to put the development in the gutter. Absolutely not uncommon with OEM

And why did army buy Hermes 900 even though it was pretty clear that this drone was even worse?

>It seems to me that you will believe anything some certain defense tabloid posts against our force


For sure

Not my fault army can't manage any procurement program at all

Navy and Air force are leagues better

Navy inducted 3×SSBN before army managed their sniper, assault rifle, MALE drone, APC, IFV, or any other program, despite army's program starting simultaneously
 
Strong countries can prioritize many things at the same time. IAF's mandate is to protect the skies. Getting the capability to do so by encouraging and building local industry is how strong nations do it. If IAF doesn't accept this role, it will forever remain mediocre.

Fortunately -- they've established their own aero design institute so I do have hopes for them.


In my sight, we have an extremely critical void to fill. There is a tender that can solve it. And all I want is that this tender closes as soon as it's possible.

Do i personally hope that a 100 Tapas was flying, yes. But do I wish that this tender is topped 5 times for 6 months so that Archer NG can prove a certain capability, no.

A fair competition should be there and we should close this as soon as possible.

What exactly was wrong with Tapas?

They wanted it to perform 30k feet with 24 hour endurance while carrying few hundred kg in a piston engine, and then in emergency procurement bought Hermes 900 which was even worse and half the fleet bought crashed almost immediately


ISR being ignored for decades despite procurement of Heron Mk1/2, Hermes 900 and 3.1 billion MQ9 deal, while closing down development of Tapas and then making case for licensing again

That's your average development cycle

Nothing's wrong with Tapas. I have previously said that if Armed forces can buy Hermes 900 without testing it, Tapas deserves an order too and let it out in the real world.

Navy could benefit greatly with a squadron in A&N (some time back we found proof of chinese SF operators in one of our islands coming from Burma)

But do I wish that this tender is stopped? No.
 
If Archer NG meets even 80% of the desired capabilities, it should be picked. Much better choice in the long run. With white labels, maybe they get all the capability now, but they'll run to OEM for each and every upgrade who will have all the leverage for price gouging
But do I wish that this tender is topped 5 times for 6 months so that Archer NG can prove a certain capability, no.
 
If Archer NG meets even 80% of the desired capabilities, it should be picked. Much better choice in the long run. With white labels, maybe they get all the capability now, but they'll run to OEM for each and every upgrade who will have all the leverage for price gouging
I think they intentionally covered up the progress of Archer-NG so that this procurement will go through without any issue.

It must be under the assumption that Archer-NG order is assured for the remaining 68 of the total 155 requirement.
 
By restricting private industry and separating functions of the military was a conscious choice. Its changing now slowly.

The next thing that must change is the default assumption that Indian private industry won't make the cut. mPhibir and others who have spent their own money on R&D will only be encouraged to do more of it if they see a return.

To that end, the MoD/ArmedForces must conduct a quick, fair and transparent evaluation to all that respond to the baseline requirement -- and assuming it is met, favor the domestic option.

Since Indians love the French so much - learn from them. There was no geopolitical jizzya, no L1 nonsense, etc-- pure AtmanirbharFrance when it came to Pinakas.
 
I think they intentionally covered up the progress of Archer-NG so that this procurement will go through without any issue.

It must be under the assumption that Archer-NG order is assured for the remaining 68 of the total 155 requirement.
I've been seeing a drone that looks like a Heron/Archer NG fly over a city in circles for hours and hours. Were there supposed to be user trials for this " competition"?
OR Did I see developmental flights of Archer NG or was it a Heron running a passive electronic ORBAT (Chinese) sensing mission?
Looks like this -
PSX_20260617_185055.jpg
 
The next thing that must change is the default assumption that Indian private industry won't make the cut. mPhibir and others who have spent their own money on R&D will only be encouraged to do more of it if they see a return.

To that end, the MoD/ArmedForces must conduct a quick, fair and transparent evaluation to all that respond to the baseline requirement -- and assuming it is met, favor the domestic option.

Since Indians love the French so much - learn from them. There was no geopolitical jizzya, no L1 nonsense, etc-- pure AtmanirbharFrance when it came to Pinakas.
The government is pushing defence exports for a reason. Realistically, not every product made by every Indian company is going to be inducted by the Indian armed forces, whether we like it or not. The military only has a limited number of operational requirements, budgets, logistics chains, and standardisation goals to fulfill.

A system being indigenous does not automatically guarantee procurement. The forces evaluate whether they actually need that category of equipment, whether it offers a meaningful advantage over existing systems, and whether introducing it would complicate training, maintenance, ammunition supply, or overall logistics.

Take assault rifles as an example. Even if companies like SSS Defence develop multiple new AR platforms, the Indian Army won't induct those right now because the AK-203 program already exists as the primary standardisation path. Once a military commits to a platform at scale, switching again becomes expensive and operationally inefficient unless the newer system offers a major leap in capability in one area or another.

That’s exactly why exports matter. Exports allow companies to survive, scale production, recover R&D costs, improve products through real-world feedback, and build manufacturing ecosystems even when domestic orders are limited. Many successful global defence companies became export-oriented long before their home militaries adopted large numbers of their systems.

A healthy defence industry cannot depend only on one customer even if that customer is its own military. Exports create volume, competition, technological maturity, and financial sustainability. In many cases, export success can eventually strengthen a product’s chances of future domestic induction as well when new requirements emerges.
 
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Many successful global defence companies became export-oriented long before their home militaries adopted large numbers of their systems.
Did they happen to sell it to worlds #1 importer to get their start?

Even if companies like SSS Defence develop multiple new AR platforms, the Indian Army won't induct those
AK-203 is exactly the type of fiasco that shouldn't happen. Why did it bypass local competition- these are not complex jets or subs? And look at the tinelines -- from the AK203 JV announced in Feb 2019, it took SSS just 8 months to make their P-72. Not saying SSS would have won the contract, but there should have been trials and price discovery.

And will anybody be surprised to find out that AK203 does not in fact have 100% ToT as claimed?

Once a military commits to a platform at scale, switching again...
Are we talking about the Indian Army? They have a complete menagerie of guns and ammo types. In fact, I am curious what they dont operate at this point.
 
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Did they happen to sell it to worlds #1 importer to get their start?


AK-203 is exactly the type of fiasco that shouldn't happen. Why did it bypass local competition- these are not complex jets or subs? And look at the tinelines -- from the AK203 JV announced in Feb 2019, it took SSS just 8 months to make their P-72. Not saying SSS would have won the contract, but there should have been trials and price discovery.

And will anybody be surprised to find out that AK203 does not in fact have 100% ToT as claimed?


Are we talking about the Indian Army? They have a complete menagerie of guns and ammo types. In fact, I am curious what they dont operate at this point.
Bro, SSS defence didn't even existed when the negotiation process started for ak203. There wasn't any viable local option. Anything close to Ak203 made by SSS came much later when the deal was in its final stages. Try to inform yourself before commenting..
 
Babur meanwhile is based off Tomahawk and far less capable in comparison, and Pakistan is now switching off to Fateh IV
Babur units were apparently nuke only and under the control of Pak's SFC. This was why they couldn't be used during Op Sindoor. They've now developed a spin-off Fatah 4 for conventional strike.
 
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