Kalvari Class Submarines - Updates & Discussions

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Bon Plan said:
And what about the make in India?
If you want to produce Kilo (a good product) in India, it will takes time. Some years...
On the other hand Scorpene is there, efficient, modern, with a mature production line. The choice seems easy.

But in India things never happen in a full logic mode :eek:
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It is a mystery why India has not ordered
A Follow on Order of 3 Scorpenes

It was reported earlier that an additional 3 Scorpene Submarines will be constructed

Maybe too many problems during TOT

Russians have been very helpful in providing and upgrading The KILO class
And also the Nuclear submarines

We can also ask them for KALIBR missiles
 
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Bon Plan said:
And what about the make in India?
If you want to produce Kilo (a good product) in India, it will takes time. Some years...
On the other hand Scorpene is there, efficient, modern, with a mature production line. The choice seems easy.

But in India things never happen in a full logic mode :eek:
Click to expand...
The only way we actually save make in India is by supporting the lone SSK production line present right now.

UK couldn't do it, France couldn't, and nor could we. We are financially, technically, etc not capable of supporting or having more than 1 SSK production line in the country. We simply don't have the requirements and resources to support it.

If Kilo is now brought (even the 636.3M which will be a generation behind Scorpene) , we will need duplication of everything.

And within 10 years, that new line will run out of orders and so had the MDL.

Means skilled manpower and technical capabilities lost, and we will be back to square 1 for importing submarines.

The best option is to buy 6 more scopenes with French weapons package including F21, MdCN and Exocets.

Cancel P75I

And then straight away focus on building indigenous ssks
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
The only way we actually save make in India is by supporting the lone SSK production line present right now.

UK couldn't do it, France couldn't, and nor could we. We are financially, technically, etc not capable of supporting or having more than 1 SSK production line in the country. We simply don't have the requirements and resources to support it.

If Kilo is now brought (even the 636.3M which will be a generation behind Scorpene) , we will need duplication of everything.

And within 10 years, that new line will run out of orders and so had the MDL.

Means skilled manpower and technical capabilities lost, and we will be back to square 1 for importing submarines.

The best option is to buy 6 more scopenes with French weapons package including F21, MdCN and Exocets.

Cancel P75I

And then straight away focus on building indigenous ssks
Click to expand...

If we can make 6000 Tonne Nuclear Submarines , why do need Foreign help for 3000 Tonne Conventional submarines

Even DRDO AIP is ready
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
If we can make 6000 Tonne Nuclear Submarines , why do need Foreign help for 3000 Tonne Conventional submarines

Even DRDO AIP is ready
Click to expand...
If we hadn't yet made a SSK, it means we couldn't as of now.

And no, DRDO AIP ain't ready yet. The French NG AIP will actually be certified much before than DRDO AIP it seems now.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
If we hadn't yet made a SSK, it means we couldn't as of now.

And no, DRDO AIP ain't ready yet. The French NG AIP will actually be certified much before than DRDO AIP it seems now.
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DRDO.AIP. Will be ready soon

Placing A Nuclear reactor in a submarine is a huge technical challenge , which we have overcome

The Rest is Sonars and Combat Management System , they can be imported if needed

HSL has carried out upgrades of KILO class

L and T makes Hulls for Nuclear Submarines

Exide makes Submarine Batteries in India

If we make a Joint Public Private Partnership as was done in case of Nuclear Submarines , we can say goodbye to Imports

We must make a beginning at least
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
DRDO.AIP. Will be ready soon

Placing A Nuclear reactor in a submarine is a huge technical challenge , which we have overcome

The Rest is Sonars and Combat Management System , they can be imported if needed

HSL has carried out upgrades of KILO class

L and T makes Hulls for Nuclear Submarines

If we make a Joint Public Private Partnership as was done in case of Nuclear Submarines , we can say goodbye to Imports

We must make a beginning at least
Click to expand...
Dollars available and time are also of importance.

While that can be done, it wont.

I am all pro Indian things. But those things need to be available. I am against spending almost 1.5 billion on a imported sub under P75I, but we do need subs. And best way is to order more through P75 follow on orders.

We might even get rights to market the product from French.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
Dollars available and time are also of importance.

While that can be done, it wont.

I am all pro Indian things. But those things need to be available. I am against spending almost 1.5 billion on a imported sub under P75I, but we do need subs. And best way is to order more through P75 follow on orders.

We might even get rights to market the product from French.
Click to expand...

My feeling is that something is brewing quietly -- An indigenous programme

That is why the follow on order
For Scorpenes was Not placed

We worked quietly for more than 20.years
On the Nuclear submarine programme

If we can get it done for conventional submarines , it would be wonderful

Do you really think that HSL was repairing
A Kilo class Submarine for 9 years

That is the official version

Maybe we were trying to get going our Conventional Submarine programme
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
My feeling is that something is brewing quietly -- An indigenous programme

That is why the follow on order
For Scorpenes was Not placed

We worked quietly for more than 20.years
On the Nuclear submarine programme

If we can get it done for conventional submarines , it would be wonderful

Do you really think that HSL was repairing
A Kilo class Submarine for 9 years

That is the official version

Maybe we were trying to get going our Conventional Submarine programme
Click to expand...
Give up wishful thinking. It's dollars available, timelines present and political-military scenarios running which decide things in India.

Progress made in nuke deterrence shouldn't be often compared with other projects.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
Give up wishful thinking. It's dollars available, timelines present and political-military scenarios running which decide things in India.

Progress made in nuke deterrence shouldn't be often compared with other projects.
Click to expand...

See MDL , HSL and L and T can pool in their Experiences

DRDO AIP will.also.get a push in this Joint Venture

And if Help is required , we can hire the
Russians.for." Consultancy." :ROFLMAO:

We will anyway need their Help.for Hypersonic missiles and HGVs in future
 
Ashwin said:
Is there an IST joke coming up @Picdelamirand-oil ?


No, it won't be a fresh start. HSL has already done mid-life refit of the kilo class with upgraded Indian components. The last submarine they delivered in record time.

HSL confident of getting refit order of fourth EKM submarine: CMD
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A mid life refit is a big overhaul, with some improvements (mainly some hardware and many software). Nothing comparable to a build from the beginning.
It's better than nothing, but the road remains long before assembling, controling, testing a full hull.
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
If we can make 6000 Tonne Nuclear Submarines , why do need Foreign help for 3000 Tonne Conventional submarines

Even DRDO AIP is ready
Click to expand...
how efficient is that 6000T boomer? is it quiet enough? is it reliable enough?
As for now it can only embark 4 missiles, no? Very few for a 6000T sub. (The french 1st gen SLBM, 1960 tech, can carry 16 missile for 8000T).

The state of the indian sub art is not so impressive you can forget foreign know how, I'm afraid.
Or to built a 4000T monster just able to do what a german, Swedish, or french 2000T sub can do.

As for jets, you need time, more money on R&D and probably some more foreign ToT.
 
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Bon Plan said:
how efficient is that 6000T boomer? is it quiet enough? is it reliable enough?
As for now it can only embark 4 missiles, no? Very few for a 6000T sub. (The french 1st gen SLBM, 1960 tech, can carry 16 missile for 8000T).

The state of the indian sub art is not so impressive you can forget foreign know how, I'm afraid.
Or to built a 4000T monster just able to do what a german, Swedish, or french 2000T sub can do.

As for jets, you need time, more money on R&D and probably some more foreign ToT.
Click to expand...

Progress will happen only if we make an effort

Lamenting all the time does not help at all
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
My feeling is that something is brewing quietly -- An indigenous programme

That is why the follow on order
For Scorpenes was Not placed

We worked quietly for more than 20.years
On the Nuclear submarine programme

If we can get it done for conventional submarines , it would be wonderful

Do you really think that HSL was repairing
A Kilo class Submarine for 9 years

That is the official version

Maybe we were trying to get going our Conventional Submarine programme
Click to expand...

Remember Parikrama told us , facility were made for next 3 scorpene to be made in India, but that leak stopped it.

HSL did refit for 9 years.
I read a negative article about it..
How the scope were expanded unlike in Russian yard.
HSL learnt from that order.
 
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Sathya said:
Remember Parikrama told us , facility were made for next 3 scorpene to be made in India, but that leak stopped it.

HSL did refit for 9 years.
I read a negative article about it..
How the scope were expanded unlike in Russian yard.
HSL learnt from that order.
Click to expand...

Nuclear Submarines are really complex

If we can make them , then at least we should try conventional ones also

By the way we had Taken TOT from HDW
Also
 
Sathya said:
Remember Parikrama told us , facility were made for next 3 scorpene to be made in India, but that leak stopped it.

HSL did refit for 9 years.
I read a negative article about it..
How the scope were expanded unlike in Russian yard.
HSL learnt from that order.
Click to expand...

No, it looks like the navy wants a more advanced sub, with land attack capability.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
Scorpenes can fire MdCN.
Click to expand...

Almost all subs can fire missiles from torpedo tubes. At best, 6 missiles, and only 1 or 2 capable of being fired at once. It's not tactically efficient. What I'm referring to is a larger volley with 8-12 missiles from VLS. IN wants 12 Brahmos-Ms in VLS for their next batch of submarines.
 
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