Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

[Saaho]

I believe our discussion was not focussed on the accuracy in the reporting of present tactical position. They have upped the ante on LAC is a fact. That is why we have this thread and our present discussion. It is immaterial that where they are camping.

Well, if the narrative is not supported by ground realities then it is no longer a narrative but fiction. To say where they are camping does not matter is not being honest. If they are camping in areas which were in our control or worse which were beyond agreed international boundry then that is a massive trouble then them camping in the area which they have under their control. The later has been and is the current situation supported by hard evidence the former is must decried but has very less or no hard evidence as of now.

We have a standoff because they are stopping Indian forces to patrol areas claimed by them for quite sometime. This game has been on going in ebbs and flow and it is from both the sides. Previously they had a road link and could bring their vehicles, now we have a road link too. Previously, we only had ability to deploy airforce in that region, now they have activated 2 airports there. Previously they had fast boats in the lake, then we got the fast boats too and they again upped the ante by brining more boats.

For all you can see, we have been changing tactical situation for them and they have been reacting and vice versa.

Expansion plan of PLAN was well known to all the concerned parties. Furthermore all those deployments were on Chinese shores. You don't expect them to park their destroyers on American ports, do you?? All of this although was concerning on a strategic point of view it didn't posed an immediate threat of war.

Thats interesting. May I know what is "well known" about expansion plan of PLAN? US certainly didn't get the memo beforehand when China tested an area denial ballistic missile aginst flat tops, did they? Did China publically declared that they are inducting JL3? Did they publically declare that new destroyers will be deployed to secure their claims in south China sea? Did they publically declare before intercepting US navy ships in what US navy claims "international waters"?

Highly doubt that. If all of these highly provocative moves did not caused a war then what is SO special about Ladakh?

 

[Saaho]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268733431011086336

I hate to say but I agree with this guy. YES INDIA DID LOSS A MAJOR AMOUNT OF TERRITORY. Only that it happened in '62 and in a way in 93.

I can totally understand why certain retired military folks (NOT pointing to @Falcon or @vstol Jockey or any one from this forum...) will be irked by all this discussion on LAC. India wanted China to withdraw from position captured in '62 like it did on western front. China said it stays. India didn't use force and situation remained like a tango. This talk of LAC makes Indian claim weak and reminds the forces that they lost the actual territory too (this is my inference, any military folks can please correct me on this).

That said, lately, I am seeing folks like Retd Col Panag using these very real and genuine matters as a tool for pursuing their political agenda. I have seen claims which are simply fantastic. You can look at few of my older posts on that. How Retd. Col Panag twisted truth more than once to make it fit his agenda. Heck he even changed the physical geography!

 

[Sulla84]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268733431011086336

Did he use the word unimpeachable to refer to Lt Gen Panag's corruption scandal ?

 

[Sanglamorre]

Did he use the word unimpeachable to refer to Lt Gen Panag's corruption scandal ?

Yep. GoI needs to do something about these... Sort of people frankly.

 

[screambowl]

May I ask, where do you think rivers get most of their water from? Is it from glacial lakes? Or elsewhere?

Because to say China intends to do X, you need to understand X.

Also, do you agree that water flows from high ground to low? Or Chinese can make gravity magically disappear?

It's not about where do rivers get the water from. It's about utilization of that water. China has already established fishery near Pangon Tso and Indians are still trying to figure what is theirs and what is not. This is very lethargic.

Tomorrow they will divert or regulate the water flow is that Indians want? Do you people want that from next time to visit Pangong Tso or Gangotri Indians will be subjected to Chinese Visa regulation?

Come on!

Where do you think there is a big number of fresh water lakes?
Himanchal or Ladakh or Tibet?

Folks, don't make chinese 100 foot tall and don't make them so dumb that they cann't read the map.

In Tibet and its within China I think. And now they are after Pangong Tso, Gallowan and Nubra. It was always about water and it will remain about water.

Of course such common sense can't be expected from Indian policy makers who don't consider water as a basic need. Otherwise ven after having several rivers mismanagement of water wouldn't have happened.

Why do you think Pakistan wants to hold kashmir? For Water!! Indians don't need water but rest of humans do!

Indo China conflict and Kashmir issue is all about Water resources and economy.

 

[Vicky]

If you read in detail about CPEC, now Pakistan has only one source left for funds and that is China which also lent largest money to Pakistan. Today China is in a position to get anything that it wants from Pakistan otherwise it will make Pakistan bankrupt overnight. After that there will be no Pakistan. I request you to read some of the posts of @Falcon on this issue.

Yes and that's my question. If China can extract anything from Pakistan then why would they want to replace that with india? 220m slave population is a huge prospect. Can sell almost anything.
India is not going to offer anything better than what is Pakistanis offering at the moment till Chinese define the LAC or we solve the border issue.
We are in now following Hu Jintao vision of peaceful rise. Not needling unnecessarily but slowly building infra. Soon we will challenge them economically and militarily.

 

[Hydra]

Satellite images don't show them. I will love to be proven wrong though.

Then why our Lt general is meeting with a chinese major? Don't act like pakistanees, the denial strategy will not represent the facts.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

India-China LAC talks today LIVE updates: Indian and Chinese armies hold Lt-General-level talks

India-China LAC talks today LIVE updates: The meeting comes a day after Indian and Chinese ambassadors joined a video call between diplomats of their border working mechanism Friday to underline that “the two sides should handle their differences through peaceful discussion” and “not allow them...

indianexpress.com

Meeting started at 8 : 30 AM

 

[Deathstar]

Then why our Lt general is meeting with a chinese major? Don't act like pakistanees, the denial strategy will not represent the facts.

Major General , which a rank below lt gen , used in PLA

 

[Saaho]

Fag Abhijit iyer Mitra word's should not be taken seriously. This scum has serious mental issues. probably a CIA bot, like his scum father. Should have been kept in jail in Orissa. The venom he spew is mind boggling. In his AMA on Reddit he was bragging how he won't to mow down farmers and poor. Look like when you are born with a silver spoon in your mouth the world look quite different.

I am rechecking his claim about Chinese presence in Ladakh and they add up. Plus, his criticism of Retd Lt Gen Panag is not wrong. Panag has even manipulated geography to his agenda. I do not agree to Iyer on all the loony ideas but he is closer to truth than Panag on this matter.

 

[Saaho]

fishery near Pangon Tso

Pangon Tso is brackish water lake. It has so much salt in it that its water is not fit for fishes or for drinking. It cann't support fish life. It freezes in winter. I don't see why will China go after it as a "source of water". It is basically as useful as sea water. The reason for Chinese claim is another. It provides access to strategically important Chusul. Also to Tibet in east.

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And now they are after Pangong Tso, Gallowan and Nubra. It was always about water and it will remain about water.

I highly doubt it is about water. As far as I know it is about access to Tibet.

 

[Saaho]

Why do you think Pakistan wants to hold kashmir? For Water!! Indians don't need water but rest of humans do!

You do know Pakistan and China have different geography, don't you? Pakistan true, it is ALSO about water. China no .. its not the water they are after in Laddakh. Its access to Tibet from Xingzian (or whatever that province is called).

 

[Saaho]

Then why our Lt general is meeting with a chinese major? Don't act like pakistanees, the denial strategy will not represent the facts.

Because of increased deployment, escalation in deployments (and our counter deployments) and frequent fist fights between patrolling parties.

It forces us to divert our resources from western front to eastern front.

 

[TARGET]

It's not about where do rivers get the water from. It's about utilization of that water. China has already established fishery near Pangon Tso and Indians are still trying to figure what is theirs and what is not. This is very lethargic.

Tomorrow they will divert or regulate the water flow is that Indians want? Do you people want that from next time to visit Pangong Tso or Gangotri Indians will be subjected to Chinese Visa regulation?

Come on!


In Tibet and its within China I think. And now they are after Pangong Tso, Gallowan and Nubra. It was always about water and it will remain about water.

Of course such common sense can't be expected from Indian policy makers who don't consider water as a basic need. Otherwise ven after having several rivers mismanagement of water wouldn't have happened.

Why do you think Pakistan wants to hold kashmir? For Water!! Indians don't need water but rest of humans do!

Indo China conflict and Kashmir issue is all about Water resources and economy.

Fishery in Pangong lake, Where you get this news? It's a saline water lake, not freshwater.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269133460771225601

 

[Chain Smoker]

As usual some people are changing geography like underwears.

 

[Cole_phelps]

China sending a major general.. Looks like China felt awful that Modi was not sufficiently intimidated by China, that he signed military logistics agreement bang in the middle of a LAC crisis.. After, China counts on its ability to use coercion o the LAC to stop India from getting too close to US or allies..

Wrote the same in other forum. China expected Modi or atleast Doval, Jaishankar to run towards Beijing by now. Forget about personal visit, no one is even dialing Beijing from Delhi.

Stare and intimidation by PLA and global times has crossed BS level and both now come across as hot air.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Wrote the same in other forum. China expected Modi or atleast Doval, Jaishankar to run towards Beijing by now. Forget about personal visit, no one is even dialing Beijing from Delhi.

Stare and intimidation by PLA and global times has crossed BS level and both now come across as hot air.

There's another reason for it. Apparently in the Mamallapuram & the preceding Wuhan summits, Modi sought & got assurances from Xi that the Chinese wouldn't attempt to change the status quo at the LAC.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Yes and that's my question. If China can extract anything from Pakistan then why would they want to replace that with india? 220m slave population is a huge prospect. Can sell almost anything.
India is not going to offer anything better than what is Pakistanis offering at the moment till Chinese define the LAC or we solve the border issue.
We are in now following Hu Jintao vision of peaceful rise. Not needling unnecessarily but slowly building infra. Soon we will challenge them economically and militarily.

Slaves dont earn you money. The reason why China wants India to be a part of BRI is only for the business prospects and they know the buying power of Indian middle class. They want 220m slaves to have cheap labour and they want India for the market size.

Then why our Lt general is meeting with a chinese major? Don't act like pakistanees, the denial strategy will not represent the facts.

The Theatre commands in China are led by Generals who are equivalent to our GOC-in-Cs. In India a GOC-in-C is a Lt. Gen. Similarly the our corps commander is also a Lt. Gen but his equivalent in PLA is a Maj. Gen.

 

[Aurora]

Well, if the narrative is not supported by ground realities then it is no longer a narrative but fiction. To say where they are camping does not matter is not being honest. If they are camping in areas which were in our control or worse which were beyond agreed international boundry then that is a massive trouble then them camping in the area which they have under their control. The later has been and is the current situation supported by hard evidence the former is must decried but has very less or no hard evidence as of now.

My narrative was that they are upping the ante and trying to change the status quo by unprecedented deployment. It is fully supported by the ground realities. Don't try to cash a small inaccuracy in my post to win an already lost argument.

We have a standoff because they are stopping Indian forces to patrol areas claimed by them for quite sometime. This game has been on going in ebbs and flow and it is from both the sides. Previously they had a road link and could bring their vehicles, now we have a road link too. Previously, we only had ability to deploy airforce in that region, now they have activated 2 airports there. Previously they had fast boats in the lake, then we got the fast boats too and they again upped the ante by brining more boats.

For all you can see, we have been changing tactical situation for them and they have been reacting and vice versa.

They have always done that. We only managed to patrol till finger 8 sometimes due to their inability to monitor the area 24*7. And this standoff is ongoing due to the unprecedented deployment by Chinese and their aggressive behaviour towards our troops. You are well aware of those incidences.

Thats interesting. May I know what is "well known" about expansion plan of PLAN? US certainly didn't get the memo beforehand when China tested an area denial ballistic missile aginst flat tops, did they? Did China publically declared that they are inducting JL3? Did they publically declare that new destroyers will be deployed to secure their claims in south China sea? Did they publically declare before intercepting US navy ships in what US navy claims "international waters"?

Highly doubt that. If all of these highly provocative moves did not caused a war then what is SO special about Ladakh?

Yeah yeah because all of this are declared publicly. BTW how do you think we know about the present expansion plan of PLAN??? Or what makes you think that what we could know presently with a click could not be known by an entity infinitely more resourceful in that time and more so when it directly concerned it???
The reason war didn't happen and both sides were sure of it was the huge military superiority of USA against China. And the reason why USA didn't indulged in a war was many like it was trapped in Afghanistan and Iran plus at that time the policy of USA was diametrically opposite to what it is now. And all those 'provicative' move which you mentioned regularly happens b/w Russian and US warplanes too. But it doesn't lead to conflict as both sides don't have required resources present on ground to do that. And that is what special about this LAC scenario, both us and them have required resources on ground to wage a war.