Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

LoneWolfSandeep said:
Seems like a fistfight gone out of control on a ridge, which eventually resulted in the ridge collapsing.
What the sequence of events seem to be (leaving out any speculation part, stating only whats confirmed from various authentic sources)

- Patrol party of 16 Bihar Regiment, went to check compliance of agreement of Patrol point 16, which they found was not done by PLA & were blocking the path on the ridge, pushing & shoving started, possible rods in play, once the first fatalities happened, most likely was the CO, there was no way to stop the fight which followed later for some time.
- India troops called in second patrol party, which quickly arrived, and so did Chinese Second Patrol party shortly afterwards.
- Eventually the Rigde collapsed, many from both sides fell.
- 3 Indian troops were dead before reaching hospital, 17 died of injuries later due to fight/fall/sub zero temp of overnight, before they were rescued. Many fell in river & got out later or fell to injuries.
- Chinese side too fell of ridge, there CO too died, river flows towards India side, 43 Dead chinese soldiers were counted , Chinese Helicopters were allowed to fly inside India to pick up dead & injured
- With the ridge collapsed, the remaining Indian soldiers on other side was released by Chinese, just like we allowed them to pick up dead & injured.
- Other than 20 soldiers confirmed dead on our side, 3 are still missing, chinese dont claim to have them, possible yet to recover from river.
- Similarly 43 Chinese Dead was found, few more may be found later as the river flows
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Reliable Source ?
 
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Phone call between External Affairs Minister, Dr. S. Jaishankar and Foreign Minister of China, H.E. Mr. Wang Yi
June 17, 2020

  • The External Affairs Minister and the State Councillor and Foreign Minister of China, H.E. Mr. Wang Yi, had a phone conversation this afternoon on recent developments in Ladakh.
  • EAM conveyed the protest of the Government of India in the strongest terms on the violent face-off in Galwan Valley on 15 June 2020. He recalled that at the meeting of senior Military Commanders held on 6th June, an agreement was reached on de-escalation and disengagement along the Line of Actual Control (LAC). Ground commanders were meeting regularly to implement this consensus throughout the last week. While there was some progress, the Chinese side sought to erect a structure in Galwan valley on our side of the LAC. While this became a source of dispute, the Chinese side took pre-meditated and planned action that was directly responsible for the resulting violence and casualties. It reflected an intent to change the facts on ground in violation of all our agreements to not change the status quo.
  • EAM underlined that this unprecedented development will have a serious impact on the bilateral relationship. The need of the hour was for the Chinese side to reassess its actions and take corrective steps. The two sides should scrupulously and sincerely implement the understanding that was reached by the Senior Commanders on 6th June. Troops of both sides should also abide by the bilateral agreements and protocols. They should strictly respect and observe the Line of Actual Control and should not take any unilateral action to alter it.
  • The State Councillor and Foreign Minister of China, on his part, conveyed the Chinese position on recent developments.
  • At the conclusion of the discussion, it was agreed that the overall situation would be handled in a responsible manner, and both sides would implement the disengagement understanding of 6 June sincerely. Neither side would take any action to escalate matters and instead, ensure peace and tranquillity as per bilateral agreements and protocols.
New Delhi
June 17, 2020

MEA | Statements : Press Releases
 
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Ashwin said:
At the conclusion of the discussion, it was agreed that the overall situation would be handled in a responsible manner, and both sides would implement the disengagement understanding of 6 June sincerely. Neither side would take any action to escalate matters and instead, ensure peace and tranquillity as per bilateral agreements and protocols.
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Seems this is the last resort to ease the tensions. A status quo as on 6th June? What was that? Is it different from previous status quo?
 
While all of us are discussing the issue from the Indian point of view, We didn't think about the next step of Chinese after they lost "x" no.of soldiers.

Indian Army officially reported 20 casualties on its side due to violent clashes at Galwan valley. Chinese have not declared their number of casualties. As majority members are arguing that our response is to diffuse the situation and show strategic restraint, we are not prepared for war, logistics issues etc. There are rumours that the Chinese also lost more than 40 troops. My point is after losing some "x" number of troops to inferior Indian Army(their opinion) in a physical brawl, Why they will de-escalate?

Like every one of us who wants to avenge our soldier's deaths. If the Chinese want to retaliate for higher casualties they suffered, this conflict will continue even if the Indian Govt wants to de-escalate because the Chinese lost more number of soldiers than us.
 
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vvabhiram said:
While all of us are discussing the issue from the Indian point of view, We didn't think about the next step of Chinese after they lost "x" no.of soldiers.

Indian Army officially reported 20 casualties on its side due to violent clashes at Galwan valley. Chinese have not declared their number of casualties. As majority members are arguing that our response is to diffuse the situation and show strategic restraint, we are not prepared for war, logistics issues etc. There are rumours that the Chinese also lost more than 40 troops. My point is after losing some "x" number of troops to inferior Indian Army(their opinion) in a physical brawl, Why they will de-escalate?

Like every one of us who wants to avenge our soldier's deaths. If the Chinese want to retaliate for higher casualties they suffered, this conflict will continue even if the Indian Govt wants to de-escalate because the Chinese lost more number of soldiers than us.
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Consider the undermentioned points:

1. The PLA may not have released casualty figures as their KIAs may not be that high as India. This will allow them to send 'feelers' to GoI to seek a negotiation.

2. The Chinese, alternatively, may have had higher casualty figures in terms of killed & wounded together (although I believe is not the case) and the release of those figures may not be helpful in their seeking to secure their southern borders by bullying India. I read the current Chinese actions as an attempt to secure its borders against India in order to remove one powerful 'littoral state' on its periphery as Xi Jinping looks to offset the internal criticism and external pressures.
 
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Falcon said:
Consider the undermentioned points:

1. The PLA may not have released casualty figures as their KIAs may not be that high as India. This will allow them to send 'feelers' to GoI to seek a negotiation.

2. The Chinese, alternatively, may have had higher casualty figures in terms of killed & wounded together (although I believe is not the case) and the release of those figures may not be helpful in their seeking to secure their southern borders by bullying India. I read the current Chinese actions as an attempt to secure its borders against India in order to remove one powerful 'littoral state' on its periphery as Xi Jinping looks to offset the internal criticism and external pressures.
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I think there is no need to speculate. If there is more build up and chatter, that will confirm. Which India lacks. I hope DMI is awake now.
 
Falcon said:
Consider the undermentioned points:

1. The PLA may not have released casualty figures as their KIAs may not be that high as India. This will allow them to send 'feelers' to GoI to seek a negotiation.

2. The Chinese, alternatively, may have had higher casualty figures in terms of killed & wounded together (although I believe is not the case) and the release of those figures may not be helpful in their seeking to secure their southern borders by bullying India. I read the current Chinese actions as an attempt to secure its borders against India in order to remove one powerful 'littoral state' on its periphery as Xi Jinping looks to offset the internal criticism and external pressures.
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There are multiple sources confirming that China lost 35-43 soldiers and all of them can't be wrong.
 
Saaho said:
"The recent frequency of loss of COs can not be brushed aside to 'leading from the front'."

I don't like plural with loss.
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Then losses of CO?

22 RR and this ....

CO had no business being in front of his troops. The CO is the figure head and the rallying point who takes the unit over the last lap. If he is taken off in the first instance, the unit feels it is incapable of protecting it's CO


There are two people who are protected with their 'lives' by soldiers - the CO, and more than him, the RMO (Medical Officer). Men have risked their lives for these two.

Responsibility of a commander is not to exhibit personal courage, but to have show the courage to lead his/her men, to any point he/she is required to, through thick and thin and through hell itself. And as long as he/she is around, the men have faith in their leader to get them there.

The psyche of a soldier going to a battle is quite different. They believe in their commander. I have yet to see an officer survive 2 mins in a unit where the troops have lost faith in their commander.
Chain Smoker said:
There are multiple sources confirming that China lost 35-43 soldiers and all of them can't be wrong.
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I said, ponder over these points.

And I would request you to read the Dhola incident of 1962 too. Interesting insight.
 
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Falcon said:
Then losses of CO?

22 RR and this ....

CO had no business being in front of his troops. The CO is the figure head and the rallying point who takes the unit over the last lap. If he is taken off in the first instance, the unit feels it is incapable of protecting it's CO


There are two people who are protected with their 'lives' by soldiers - the CO, and more than him, the RMO (Medical Officer). Men have risked their lives for these two.

Responsibility of a commander is not to exhibit personal courage, but to have show the courage to lead his/her men, to any point he/she is required to, through thick and thin and through hell itself. And as long as he/she is around, the men have faith in their leader to get them there.

The psyche of a soldier going to a battle is quite different. They believe in their commander. I have yet to see an officer survive 2 mins in a unit where the troops have lost faith in their commander.


I said, ponder over these points.

And I would request you to read the Dhola incident of 1962 too. Interesting insight.
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What do u think ? Will it escalate? Will we take revenge?
 
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randomradio said:
Such things are merely out of panic, it stabilizes immediately after a day or two. But that's not the case with a long, protracted war that may last a few weeks to a few years, or even many years. No one will want to keep money inside a country that has the potential to get nuked.

Not just foreigners, even rich Indians will want to get out if a major war happens, and that also includes their money. So all those who can run away will run away to safer countries.

War doesn't come easy. And in a country like India, only the poor and middle class will have to bear the brunt, which is why war is for the rich countries.
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Most wars are fought by poorer/middle income countries countries, but yes, rich country economies and civic populace suffer less during a war
Falcon said:
I am getting some inputs that we did do something that resulted in this
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What Chinese reaction is being talked about here ?
 
Sulla84 said:
What Chinese reaction is being talked about here ?
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I once mentioned that they occupied a few rocky outcrops, so did we. We are giving them back equally.

The Babuas of 16 Bihar and others of Artillery and Armour who were there, did us proud. They charged up the mountain. Without rifles, but a charge of the infantry took place. Outnumbered and dominated yes, but the Babuas did not back down.

I am proud of them. And I am overwhelmed at their courage. That is sheer guts and raw courage. Knowing you won't come down alive. But still charging up.
 
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