Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

My question is not related to rafale vs f35.
My position is stealth being crucial for tip of the spear role in modern aerial warfare.

But if that discoloration doesn't harm, then why are they spending time and resources to get rid or minimise that discoloration?
It doesn't affect the "stealth", RCS or infrared

They have already changed the coating to a new type, It's similar to a car, you have paint and then a clear coat, the clear coat is sacrificial and you polish with abrasives and the pain layer isn't harmed

Again Herciv's link said all that is needed,
"To address the issue, the F-35 Joint Program Office has developed a new coating designed to significantly reduce or eliminate discoloration, improve wear resistance, and extend the coating’s lifespan. This new finish will be applied during routine maintenance cycles, following a process similar to how coatings are refreshed on both commercial and military aircraft"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Innominate
Visuals shared are confirming the event. Linking CNN as well.



A US Navy F-35 fighter jet crashed in central California Wednesday near Naval Air Station Lemoore, according to a Navy press statement.
 
Last edited:
Interesting that you strongly suggest it has no bearing on all the parameters mentioned. Could you please share the source? I understand that a new coating is already on its way.
You are late to the party, it goes back 3 pages and a link that herciv posted, that he didn't understand
I have the same issues when I translate for french spanish and german forums, The translator aren't good enough, I'm sure a lot here also use translators, Their grammar is a lot better than I have encounted with indian students in australia, yet they still get the wrong end of an article

It said
"The JPO emphasizes that these changes do not indicate structural damage or a degradation of the aircraft’s stealth capabilities.

The agency clarified that many of the surface changes perceived by the public as damage – such as discoloration after deployment – do not negatively impact the aircraft’s condition. F-35 jets are frequently exposed to harsh environments during naval operations, including constant contact with saltwater, contamination from lubricants and other fluids, and proximity to rotor wash and cleaning activities. These factors can lead to wear or discoloration of the coating, but they do not compromise the structural integrity or stealth performance of the aircraft.

To address the issue, the F-35 Joint Program Office has developed a new coating designed to significantly reduce or eliminate discoloration, improve wear resistance, and extend the coating’s lifespan. This new finish will be applied during routine maintenance cycles, following a process similar to how coatings are refreshed on both commercial and military aircraft."




 
You are late to the party, it goes back 3 pages and a link that herciv posted, that he didn't understand
I have the same issues when I translate for french spanish and german forums, The translator aren't good enough, I'm sure a lot here also use translators, Their grammar is a lot better than I have encounted with indian students in australia, yet they still get the wrong end of an article

It said
"The JPO emphasizes that these changes do not indicate structural damage or a degradation of the aircraft’s stealth capabilities.

The agency clarified that many of the surface changes perceived by the public as damage – such as discoloration after deployment – do not negatively impact the aircraft’s condition. F-35 jets are frequently exposed to harsh environments during naval operations, including constant contact with saltwater, contamination from lubricants and other fluids, and proximity to rotor wash and cleaning activities. These factors can lead to wear or discoloration of the coating, but they do not compromise the structural integrity or stealth performance of the aircraft.

To address the issue, the F-35 Joint Program Office has developed a new coating designed to significantly reduce or eliminate discoloration, improve wear resistance, and extend the coating’s lifespan. This new finish will be applied during routine maintenance cycles, following a process similar to how coatings are refreshed on both commercial and military aircraft."




This link leads to nowhere. I couldn't reach the source as I expected (there could be an issue with the original post). Thank you for the jab on the Indian students. It was unnecessary but I can understand your frustration.
 
Last edited:
This link leads to nowhere. The I couldn't reach the source as I expected. Thank you for the jab on the Indian students. It was unnecessary but I can understand your frustration.
It wasn't a jab, it was an observation of English skills, That suggests that a translator is used here by some, I have employed Indian students here, for many years

This is the article where he got it from
 
So the source article about the entire rust fiasco is actually this:


I am surprised that this wasn't sorted with the initial roll-out itself or during the earliest production stages. The comments seem to agree.

One of the most visible issues is the discoloration of the aircraft’s surface, which can be observed after deployments, particularly in harsh environments. The JPO clarified that this discoloration does not indicate structural damage or reduced stealth capability.
 
So the source article about the entire rust fiasco is actually this:


I am surprised that this wasn't sorted with the initial roll-out itself or during the earliest production stages. The comments seem to agree.

One of the most visible issues is the discoloration of the aircraft’s surface, which can be observed after deployments, particularly in harsh environments. The JPO clarified that this discoloration does not indicate structural damage or reduced stealth capability.
It was never a fiasco, It was always a journalist beat up, Anything negative gets the clicks, which the naysayers are happy to post everywhere, Doom and gloom and the F-35 will be canceled soon

I can only assume that the initial testing didn't show this discolouration, it was only after months on a boat, it came to light
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Innominate
India has informed the US that it’s not keen to buy the F-35 stealth fighter jets, they said. During Modi’s visit to the White House in February, Trump had offered to sell the expensive warplanes to India. However, the Modi government is more interested in a partnership focused on jointly designing and manufacturing defense equipments domestically, the officials said.

 
Did basic research, I'm pretty sure this "discoloration" definitely reduces stealth.
From what I know in this state, this f35 is definetly less stealthy than a j20,
I guess the DoD JPO isn't good enough for you, That's ok, it's a cult thing, Trump supporters say he isn't a criminal, either
 
I guess the DoD JPO isn't good enough for you, That's ok, it's a cult thing, Trump supporters say he isn't a criminal, either
No one's saying f35 is bad for USA. They can afford it. I have even put that point in my responses above.

But this discoloration issue might affect something. It might not be short term, it could or could not be operational either. Or it could've long term effects on life time of a FA.

I am not going into technical details but inferring it from pov that the jpo is indeed working on rectifying it. Pouring too much money if it has no effect whatsoever wouldn't make sense for USAF.
But if they are doing it just to assuage the concern of social media watchers... Idk, i doubt that.
 

Industry insider slams Lockheed’s F-55 as “repackaged failure”​


Defense & SecurityNews
ByDylan Malyasov

Jul 31, 2025
Modified date: Jul 31, 2025


File photo of a F-35 by Jay HewittFile photo of a F-35 by Jay Hewitt
As Lockheed Martin faces growing scrutiny over its role in U.S. next-generation air dominance efforts, a defense industry source has issued a sharp rebuke of the company’s rumored strategy to develop a twin-engine derivative of the F-35, also known as F-55.

The criticism comes amid fresh financial pressure on Lockheed, whose second-quarter 2025 earnings revealed deep losses tied to troubled legacy programs.

The Pentagon’s top contractor reported steady revenues of $18.2 billion, up slightly from $18.1 billion a year earlier, but net earnings fell dramatically to $342 million, or $1.46 per share, compared to $1.6 billion, or $6.85 per share, in Q2 2024. The company cited $1.6 billion in program-related losses and $169 million in other charges, stemming in part from internal program reviews.

- ADVERTISEMENT - CONTINUE READING BELOW -

“The F-35 is a broken design—too many of its basic problems are baked into the airframe,” a Western defense industry source familiar with the matter told us. “Lockheed’s financial results reflect exactly what long-time critics have warned about for two decades: when you hardwire compromises into a fighter’s structure, you eventually hit limits you can’t engineer your way out of.”

The remarks follow U.S. President Donald Trump’s May 15 announcement in Qatar, where he confirmed plans to develop a new twin-engine aircraft to be designated the F-55 and a parallel effort to modernize the F-22 Raptor fleet.

Trump called the F-55 a “super upgrade on the F-35,” stating: “It’s going to be also with two engines because the F-35 has a single engine. I don’t like single engines.”

But the idea of building on the F-35 for such a design was dismissed outright by the source, who described it as “marketing, not engineering.”

“To make a twin-engine jet from the F-35, you’d need to completely redesign the fuselage, wing, tail, and stealth shaping,” the source said. “You’re not building a variant—you’re building an entirely new aircraft. These types of proposals are rarely about capability. They’re about keeping development dollars flowing after losing a major program like NGAD.”

The insider added that Lockheed’s problems run deeper than any one aircraft: “This is what happens when you prioritize sales over engineering. Boeing followed that path in the commercial world. Lockheed followed it in defense, and the F-35 is the outcome.”

Referring to Lockheed’s internal dynamics, the source noted that most of the public still doesn’t see how fragile the program has become. “Because it’s military, the performance failures are easier to bury behind procurement cycles and classified briefs. But the system is showing strain. The losses reported this quarter are just the beginning.”

Cash flow figures underscore the point. Lockheed reported only $201 million in operating cash, down from $1.9 billion a year earlier, and negative free cash flow of $150 million, compared to $1.5 billion positive in Q2 2024.

Former Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall previously stated that a twin-engine F-35 concept was never discussed during his time in office. Other defense analysts have questioned whether any such effort could succeed without years of redesign and tens of billions in new investment.

For the source, a better option would be to revisit a platform that never should have been retired: “Reopening the F-22 line and upgrading it would be smarter, cheaper, and faster. But doing so would force too many people in Washington to admit the truth—that the F-35 was never a true replacement.”

Looking ahead, the source warned that Lockheed’s positioning around the F-55 could create false expectations in defense planning. “It’s a political maneuver designed to look like progress. What we’re seeing now is not innovation. It’s damage control.”

“The F-35 was oversold from the start,” the source concluded. “The F-55 proposal is just the latest attempt to repackage a deeply flawed program—and to avoid facing the consequences of two decades of compromised design choices.”
 
Dod jpo, is a word of mouth.
They have vested interest in showing a rosy picture.
I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, So when DOT&E sit at a desk and write a report based on the data given by JPO, Anything negative, according to Herciv is gospel, Yet when something positive is said by JPO it's a "vested interest"

Congratulations @Herciv, you found another hit piece, At least doing this, keeps you busy