Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
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too funny.
4 batch to expect to have a functional plane. LM engineers losed their skill
Why the F-35 Isn’t Good Enough for Japan
While the F-35 retains some radar evading capabilities, its radar cross section is over ten times greater than that of the F-22 making it far less survivable — leading some analysts to term it a “pseudo stealthy” fighter.
The F-35 has less than half the range of the larger F-22 .
As a single engine light platform with a small arsenal of just four air-to-air missiles, restricted to a below average speed of Mach 1.6 and a very low altitude relative to the Raptor, the F-15J, and elite twin engine Chinese fighters, the F-35 hardly presents an adequate solution to counter China’s growing fleet of J-11 fighters — let alone more advanced platforms more recently deployed by Beijing such as the Su-35 or J-20. Indeed, it was never designed for such an air superiority role.
U.S. military officials and numerous think tanks have repeatedly stressed that the F-35 is not an air superiority platform and cannot replace the F-15. Former Air Force chief of staff General Mark Welsh stated that the F-35 “was never designed to be the next dog fighting machine. It was designed to be the multipurpose, data-integration platform that could do all kinds of things in the air-to-ground arena including dismantle enemy, integrated, air defenses. It had an air-to-air capability, but it was not intended to be an air-superiority fighter.
Why the F-35 Isn’t Good Enough for Japan
While the F-35 retains some radar evading capabilities, its radar cross section is over ten times greater than that of the F-22 making it far less survivable — leading some analysts to term it a “pseudo stealthy” fighter.
The F-35 has less than half the range of the larger F-22 .
As a single engine light platform with a small arsenal of just four air-to-air missiles, restricted to a below average speed of Mach 1.6 and a very low altitude relative to the Raptor, the F-15J, and elite twin engine Chinese fighters, the F-35 hardly presents an adequate solution to counter China’s growing fleet of J-11 fighters — let alone more advanced platforms more recently deployed by Beijing such as the Su-35 or J-20. Indeed, it was never designed for such an air superiority role.
U.S. military officials and numerous think tanks have repeatedly stressed that the F-35 is not an air superiority platform and cannot replace the F-15. Former Air Force chief of staff General Mark Welsh stated that the F-35 “was never designed to be the next dog fighting machine. It was designed to be the multipurpose, data-integration platform that could do all kinds of things in the air-to-ground arena including dismantle enemy, integrated, air defenses. It had an air-to-air capability, but it was not intended to be an air-superiority fighter.
Why the F-35 Isn’t Good Enough for Japan
lol why does the F-35 get more shit for being a multirole plane than any other multirole plane? It's design concept is not different from the SH or F-16 when it comes to being a multirole plane.
Also RCS is better than F-22, not worse. Not even close to 10 times worse.
Also RCS is better than F-22, not worse. Not even close to 10 times worse.
F-35 Brains in an F-22 Body: Thinking Through Japan’s Next-Generation Fighter Options
Published May 2, 2018 | By admin
SOURCE: THE DIPLOMAT
The aviation world went bonkers early this week when news emerged that Lockheed Martin has proposed offering a hybrid of the F-22 and F-35 to Japan. The fighter, which would come in addition to the purchase of at least 60 F-35s, would combine elements of the two fighters to presumably produce one of the world’s most formidable combat aircraft.
Japan has previously adopted several American designs, including the F-15J and the F-2 (an outgrowth of the F-16). It sought F-22s, but could not acquire them because of the Obey Amendment, a law intended to prevent transfer of the Raptor. The future of Japan’s own stealth fighter project remains in grave doubt after news emerged last month that the country would seek external technological assistance with the program. Japan has already begun purchase of the F-35, but it wants an additional fighter to carry out interceptor duties across its airspace. The threat of incursions from China and Russia has driven this concern.
Significant components of the aircraft, notwithstanding any foreign influence, would presumably be built in Japan. Lockheed Martin ran into problems with the U.S. government when it tried to export a variety of stealth technologies to Korea, a restriction which has hamstrung South Korea’s stealth fighter program. Any effort to export what could amount to a variant of the F-22 would also risk running afoul of the Obey Amendment.
Kyle Mizokami has some thoughts on what a hybrid aircraft might look like. As Mizokami notes, there’s some sound logic behind the idea of combining the two fighters. The F-22 has a world-beating airframe, but a much older electronics suite than the F-35. A combination, even one which would amount to simply an update of the Raptor, could prove extremely formidable. That said, production of the F-3 (or whatever Japan eventually decides to call the aircraft) is at least ten years away, and possibly longer.
It’s also worth wondering whether the United States itself might have an interest in acquiring such a fighter. As Tyler Rogoway has argued, selling the F-22 to Japan would provide a useful economic justification for rebooting the production line in the United States, which would then enable the USAF to acquire more Raptors (or “Super Raptors” or whatever). As a financial and technological collaboration, this could provide the cornerstone of Japanese and American air dominance for the next few decades, dominance that few other countries could consider challenging. That said, the legal and economic obstacles remain nearly as formidable as the notional fighter itself.
Published May 2, 2018 | By admin
SOURCE: THE DIPLOMAT
The aviation world went bonkers early this week when news emerged that Lockheed Martin has proposed offering a hybrid of the F-22 and F-35 to Japan. The fighter, which would come in addition to the purchase of at least 60 F-35s, would combine elements of the two fighters to presumably produce one of the world’s most formidable combat aircraft.
Japan has previously adopted several American designs, including the F-15J and the F-2 (an outgrowth of the F-16). It sought F-22s, but could not acquire them because of the Obey Amendment, a law intended to prevent transfer of the Raptor. The future of Japan’s own stealth fighter project remains in grave doubt after news emerged last month that the country would seek external technological assistance with the program. Japan has already begun purchase of the F-35, but it wants an additional fighter to carry out interceptor duties across its airspace. The threat of incursions from China and Russia has driven this concern.
Significant components of the aircraft, notwithstanding any foreign influence, would presumably be built in Japan. Lockheed Martin ran into problems with the U.S. government when it tried to export a variety of stealth technologies to Korea, a restriction which has hamstrung South Korea’s stealth fighter program. Any effort to export what could amount to a variant of the F-22 would also risk running afoul of the Obey Amendment.
Kyle Mizokami has some thoughts on what a hybrid aircraft might look like. As Mizokami notes, there’s some sound logic behind the idea of combining the two fighters. The F-22 has a world-beating airframe, but a much older electronics suite than the F-35. A combination, even one which would amount to simply an update of the Raptor, could prove extremely formidable. That said, production of the F-3 (or whatever Japan eventually decides to call the aircraft) is at least ten years away, and possibly longer.
It’s also worth wondering whether the United States itself might have an interest in acquiring such a fighter. As Tyler Rogoway has argued, selling the F-22 to Japan would provide a useful economic justification for rebooting the production line in the United States, which would then enable the USAF to acquire more Raptors (or “Super Raptors” or whatever). As a financial and technological collaboration, this could provide the cornerstone of Japanese and American air dominance for the next few decades, dominance that few other countries could consider challenging. That said, the legal and economic obstacles remain nearly as formidable as the notional fighter itself.
IMHO, India must go for the XF9-1 engine if the planned Japanese fighter is cancelled. This engine can be easily used in SU-30MKI which will give it a substantial boost and also replace the engine in Su-57.
The Russians won't allow that change.
Plus, while it may be good enough for the MKI, the Type 30 is a far more advanced engine since it's a VCE.
YOU ABSOLUTELY DON'T KNOW. AS I AM.
The T72 iraki MBT were the same than russian ones russian generals said to Sadam.... but they just forget to add the composite layer armor. So they were easily destroyed by low pressure 105mm gun (not to speak of 120mm).
Don't imagine ally will have the same stuff than USAF and navy. And the most distant one even more.
LOL.F-35 Brains in an F-22 Body: Thinking Through Japan’s Next-Generation Fighter Options
Published May 2, 2018 | By admin
SOURCE: THE DIPLOMAT
The aviation world went bonkers early this week when news emerged that Lockheed Martin has proposed offering a hybrid of the F-22 and F-35 to Japan. The fighter, which would come in addition to the purchase of at least 60 F-35s, would combine elements of the two fighters to presumably produce one of the world’s most formidable combat aircraft.
Japan has previously adopted several American designs, including the F-15J and the F-2 (an outgrowth of the F-16). It sought F-22s, but could not acquire them because of the Obey Amendment, a law intended to prevent transfer of the Raptor. The future of Japan’s own stealth fighter project remains in grave doubt after news emerged last month that the country would seek external technological assistance with the program. Japan has already begun purchase of the F-35, but it wants an additional fighter to carry out interceptor duties across its airspace. The threat of incursions from China and Russia has driven this concern.
Significant components of the aircraft, notwithstanding any foreign influence, would presumably be built in Japan. Lockheed Martin ran into problems with the U.S. government when it tried to export a variety of stealth technologies to Korea, a restriction which has hamstrung South Korea’s stealth fighter program. Any effort to export what could amount to a variant of the F-22 would also risk running afoul of the Obey Amendment.
Kyle Mizokami has some thoughts on what a hybrid aircraft might look like. As Mizokami notes, there’s some sound logic behind the idea of combining the two fighters. The F-22 has a world-beating airframe, but a much older electronics suite than the F-35. A combination, even one which would amount to simply an update of the Raptor, could prove extremely formidable. That said, production of the F-3 (or whatever Japan eventually decides to call the aircraft) is at least ten years away, and possibly longer.
It’s also worth wondering whether the United States itself might have an interest in acquiring such a fighter. As Tyler Rogoway has argued, selling the F-22 to Japan would provide a useful economic justification for rebooting the production line in the United States, which would then enable the USAF to acquire more Raptors (or “Super Raptors” or whatever). As a financial and technological collaboration, this could provide the cornerstone of Japanese and American air dominance for the next few decades, dominance that few other countries could consider challenging. That said, the legal and economic obstacles remain nearly as formidable as the notional fighter itself.
a new dupe game
Well, that dispute lasted like.
2-3 weeks.
F-35 deliveries resume as Pentagon and Lockheed clear up financial disagreement
2-3 weeks.
F-35 deliveries resume as Pentagon and Lockheed clear up financial disagreement
Dogfight over UK's pledge to buy American fighter jets 'could play out like the Westland affair'
The British Government is committed to buying 138 F-35 fighter aircraft from US manufacturer Lockheed Martin.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has so far bought 48 aircraft at a cost of £9.1 billion but is now reconsidering its pledge to buy a further 90 F-35s.
Instead, the Telegraph understands it is looking at purchasing Eurofighter jets, made by a European consortium that includes the UK.
The European manufactured jets are currently, on best estimates, about half the price of an F-35.
Gavin Williamson, the Defence Secretary, is publishing a defence review in July, which may cast doubt on the affordability of the further 90 F-35 Lightning II aircraft, the most expensive but technically advanced fighter jet in history.
He has also launched a Combat Aircraft Industrial Strategy, due to report in the summer, which is set to decide the balance of future spending on jet fighters - and whether the UK goes for a predominantly European fighter, despite Brexit, or a US-developed jet.
Israel has proposed a deal to purchase additional Boeing F-15s, in a package that would also include upgrading the Israeli air force's existing I-model examples of the strike Aircraft. Worth almost $4 billion, the potential purchase would include 25 twin-engined F-15Is in an advanced configuration.
The rationale for this decision is that while the F-35's stealth features are essential at the start of a conflict, the type will need be flown during later combat sorties in conjunction with assets capable of carrying a heavier weapons load.
Israel to link fleet upgrade with follow-on F-15I buy
The rationale for this decision is that while the F-35's stealth features are essential at the start of a conflict, the type will need be flown during later combat sorties in conjunction with assets capable of carrying a heavier weapons load.
Israel to link fleet upgrade with follow-on F-15I buy
Half the price is surprisingly low, I don't think there's any truth to that.
They are probably comparing the F-35's total contract price with the Typhoon's flyaway price.
They are probably comparing the F-35's total contract price with the Typhoon's flyaway price.
It's hard to say. Here's an other article on the same subject :
At the latest estimate, the cost of a Eurofighter and the fifth-generation F-35 comes in at £87 million and £197 million respectively. So far, the UK has paid for 49 F-35s at a cost of £9.1 billion to the taxpayer.
https://www.rt.com/uk/42699...
It'll be like the two different contracts Qatar signed for the Rafale. The first 24 came at a 'different price' compared to the follow on 12.
Here's the parlamentary report where every figure comes from. YOu're right. In fact all thèses figure come from THE TIMES and are investigate in tis report.
"94. The lack of transparency over the costs of the F-35 is unacceptable and risks undermining public confidence in the programme. The Department should provide us with the ‘rough orders of magnitude’ it claims to possess for the total costs of the F-35 programme beyond 2026/7."
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmdfence/326/326.pdf
AN other article from today witht a former defense minister :
UK could SNUB US fighter jets and opt for cheaper EUROPEAN aircrafts after defence review
"Unless Lockheed Martin can bring the cost down, the F-35 will suck up other funds for other programmes in the defence budget."
“If the costs continue as they are that will have a serious knock-on effect to the rest of the defence spending programme.”
The f-35 in IK are under heavy fire.
The budget seems to be the main reason but the thyphoon and the scaf seems to be also one of the reasons. UK try to find budget to be part of the SCAF.
"94. The lack of transparency over the costs of the F-35 is unacceptable and risks undermining public confidence in the programme. The Department should provide us with the ‘rough orders of magnitude’ it claims to possess for the total costs of the F-35 programme beyond 2026/7."
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmdfence/326/326.pdf
AN other article from today witht a former defense minister :
UK could SNUB US fighter jets and opt for cheaper EUROPEAN aircrafts after defence review
"Unless Lockheed Martin can bring the cost down, the F-35 will suck up other funds for other programmes in the defence budget."
“If the costs continue as they are that will have a serious knock-on effect to the rest of the defence spending programme.”
The f-35 in IK are under heavy fire.
The budget seems to be the main reason but the thyphoon and the scaf seems to be also one of the reasons. UK try to find budget to be part of the SCAF.
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omg, that 191 million 9.1 billion number strikes again. That includes EVERYTHING including development and partner contributions.