Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Ashwin said:
Today, Putin and Russia are becoming increasingly unreliable for us. This trend will only worsen.
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The opposite. We are gonna double down on our relationship.

We are only getting out of the defense-trade relationship.

As long as India is not in the UNSC with veto, Russia's absolutely indispensible. And we are gonna have to pay for that via mutually beneficial civilian deals; resources, nuclear trade, semiconductors, rare earths etc.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
An F-35 that can't be integrated into our system(AFNET), that is not ready for war(until Block-4 & engine ECU update), whose usage is determined by whims/interests of an unpredictable nation is nothing but white elephant for us.

Amyways, we shall see and the decision would be taken in this regard rather soon.
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We can buy a jet that functions in a silo, but it needs to be extremely advanced, offering capabilities MRFA and AMCA are not, and the F-35 is not it.

Even if AMCA fails and we make a decision to import, it will most likely be the F-55, if NGAD isn't on the table.
Picdelamirand-oil said:
In addition, the canards add lift by creating vortices on the upper surface, and this multiplies the lift by 2 or 3 depending on the configuration.
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I was planning on bringing that in if Optimist had followed through with his body-lift argument.
 
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jetray said:
americans will buy it on credit, they can now buy cars on 72/84 months period, who knows they might even offer a iphone for free when they buy a 40k car.
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Yeah, point being Apple will just pass the cost on to the customers. like how we pay insane custom duties on imports.

This is one area where Trump does not have control over. Sufficient for optics I suppose. India bashing is becoming normal in the US.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
An F-35 that can't be integrated into our system(AFNET), that is not ready for war(until Block-4 & engine ECU update), whose usage is determined by whims/interests of an unpredictable nation is nothing but white elephant for us.

Amyways, we shall see and the decision would be taken in this regard rather soon.
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Already went over most of those points before:

Trump Offers F-35 Jet to India in Push for More Defense Deals

“Leak” works started
www.strategicfront.org www.strategicfront.org

screambowl said:
In my opinion Russians do have a counter to stealth that's why they went on with Ukraine adventure. And US first needs to supply those GE404 engines, it has already delayed and one 1 is supplied by now after a two years delay.
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Russians aren't fighting any stealth aircraft in Ukraine. If you mean they felt ready for war with NATO, I don't think so. Russians didn't want to invade either Ukraine or Georgia. Their hand was forced each time by Western meddling.

The Russians may be in control of how they fight these conflicts, but the Western Govts have been deciding the when & where.

jetray said:
wrt Terrorism as well US is pretty notorious , they are no different from pakistan. One day they are fighting alqaeda and next day they invite him to white house.

Trump cant squeeze china so he targets friendly countries, he knows very well china wont give any concessions. He rages against chino to put indirect pressure on other countries. Its not just on cost factor but also on liquidity front as well, exports from these cntries is the only way they earn dollars. By threatening to take away manufacturing from them he is killing their own export market.
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It's not like we didn't know any of this before. The US has been playing these games since forever. Trump is just more overt & brash about it is all.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
You may disagree, but we need both Russia & France in the long-term as our reliable defence-partners along with to have Veto support at the UNSC.
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The problem is that you see it as a temporary phase with the intention of dumping us when you're strong enough, so what's our interest in helping you get stronger in that context? It's like saying to a girl, I'm willing to get engaged but not married.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
The problem is that you see it as a temporary phase with the intention of dumping us when you're strong enough, so what's our interest in helping you get stronger in that context? It's like saying to a girl, I'm willing to get engaged but not married.
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Don't think our policy makers see our relationship with France as a zero sum game & vice versa.

That France since the time of De Gaulle has not been all too comfortable with the Anglo dominated anti communist alliance is well known.

That the French in continuation of those policies reached out to what they perceived as relatively stable regional powers who were either anti communist or at any rate neutral is borne out by their outreach to India , Brazil , Egypt, etc since the days of the post De Gaulle Cold War era is also a fact .

What we're seeing in the post cold war era is a continuation of those policies. Both India & France need each other & that need will only rise in the near to mid term.

I'd have said the same for Indo Russian ties but apart from certain sectors where we'd co operate extensively basically the Russian story is headed for a permanent eclipse.

It's a matter of when not if though having said that if I were an European I'd be extremely wary of a Russia going down for it has the potential of taking the rest of Europe down with it , something the EU / NATO member countries either haven't realised or haven't given much consideration to.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
The problem is that you see it as a temporary phase with the intention of dumping us when you're strong enough, so what's our interest in helping you get stronger in that context? It's like saying to a girl, I'm willing to get engaged but not married.
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It's kind of multi-partner relationship for both India and France, and most other countries. France is not comfortable with many of India's partners and policies, and is same for India also. Being situated 6500 KM apart changes geopolitical view and considerably, and both have to change in accordance...
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
No, you have the choice. We also have veto power at the UNSC.
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We need both countries to balance things out.

For India in the UNSC, Russia is a center of gravity. If we lose French support, Russia will still support India. But if we lose Russian support, India will fall under the mercy of the collective West. Then all the US has to do is offer the French some kinda deal to turn India into a pariah overnight.

Our reliance on Russia forces the US to provide concessions too, which in turn forces the Russians to provide concessions. We see that with the oil trade.

So, until the UNSC reforms or India becomes too big to make the UNSC irrelevant, the need to balance this relationship will continue.

In the long term too, we need Russia for having the largest natural resources wealth, something India almost entirely lacks in.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
The problem is that you see it as a temporary phase with the intention of dumping us when you're strong enough, so what's our interest in helping you get stronger in that context? It's like saying to a girl, I'm willing to get engaged but not married.
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India's relations with stronger powers like France and Russia are constrained, whereas India has excellent relations with weaker powers. I don't see why that will not continue in the future with France when the power dynamics switches.
 
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screambowl said:
Yeah and what about that GE404 three years and just one delivered? There is a trend going on on X, over funding Kaveri engine. There is national consensus building up for indigenous development of a powerplant for aircrafts.
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Low IQ paroud Sar crowd doing engagement farming.... yes India need to developed its own engine for self reliance but it will take time......until than we need F 35 as there are no other viable option or competitor worth considering.
 
South block said:
Low IQ paroud Sar crowd doing engagement farming.... yes India need to developed its own engine for self reliance but it will take time......until than we need F 35 as there are no other viable option or competitor worth considering.
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Unfortunately, I beg to differ. India needs to work pronto on this project (as if it is a national crisis). I am not sure about F-35 sale. The Senate has a lot of concerns about sales to India (I would be too, considering the weapons mixture in India). You will need to overcome a lot of hurdles for this to pass.
 
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Shan said:
Unfortunately, I beg to differ. India needs to work pronto on this project (as if it is a national crisis). I am not sure about F-35 sale. The Senate has a lot of concerns about sales to India (I would be too, considering the weapons mixture in India). You will need to overcome a lot of hurdles for this to pass.
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F 35 is the only viable 5th generation option for us until AMCA arrives........ Hurdles will be set aside. I don't take Twitter proud sar crowd opinion seriously or for that matter paid Dassault bots with vested interests here selling churan since 2019.
 
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