Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

UK F-35B Lightning Force: Ambition, Compromise and the Realities of Fifth-Generation Sustainment
1/25 Today (12 October 2026) the United Kingdom operates 47 Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II STOVL aircraft. The final airframes of the initial procurement phase arrived at RAF Marham in May. Full Operating Capability for this first tranche was declared in November 2025 after Operation Highmast. Both Queen Elizabeth-class carriers are operational. HMS Queen Elizabeth has been at sea and recently in Belfast without embarked F-35Bs, consistent with her work-up as NATO Allied Response Force command ship. HMS Prince of Wales has embarked substantial numbers for Highmast and exercises such as Ramstein Flag 26.

These milestones conceal deeper constraints. Availability has remained low. Analyses indicate that only around 30 per cent of the UK-based fleet may be flyable on a typical day, equating to roughly ten aircraft. Only 13 of the 47 jets have reached the Technology Refresh 3 hardware standard that enables Block 4 upgrades. Full combat certification of TR-3 is not expected before 2027. UK weapons such as Meteor and SPEAR 3 remain years from operational integration. The force still relies on AIM-120 AMRAAM and Paveway IV, with an interim Small Diameter Bomb II purchase. Organic AEW depends on Crowsnest, scheduled for withdrawal at the end of 2029 without a funded replacement. No dedicated organic air-to-air refuelling exists for the carriers.

This thread attempts to examine how the UK arrived at the F-35B, the protracted path into service, the dilution of requirements that permitted FOC, and the systemic challenges of sustaining a fifth-generation aircraft.

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6/25 The force has conducted operational sorties, including air defence missions against one-way attack drones in the Mediterranean and Middle East in 2026—the type’s first UK combat kills. It sustained more than 1,000 sorties during the eight-month Highmast deployment. These achievements demonstrate that the aircraft can generate useful effect when prioritised. They do not, however, resolve the structural constraints on numbers, availability and weapons.

The gap between demonstrated short-term surge performance and sustainable day-to-day readiness remains significant. <i></i>

Weapons Integration Delays


7/25 Weapons integration has lagged furthest. The original ambition included early fielding of the MBDA Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile and SPEAR 3 precision strike weapon. Both slipped with Block 4 delays. Operational capability is now projected for the early 2030s. In the interim the force relies on AIM-120 AMRAAM and free-fall Paveway IV. The Small Diameter Bomb II has been approved as a stop-gap standoff capability via Foreign Military Sales.

Recent contract activity continues integration work for UK and Italian sovereign weapons under Block 4, but urgency remains limited relative to US priorities.

The absence of a true standoff air-to-surface weapon limits effectiveness in contested environments.

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Deferred Sovereign Capabilities

10/25 Cost pressures led to the deferral of key sovereign facilities. The Aircraft Signature Assessment Facility (or Sovereign Low Observable Verification Facility) required to confirm that aircraft retain their stealth characteristics was paused in 2021 for affordability reasons. A revised business case is due in 2027. Delivery is not expected until the 2030s. Partial mitigation involves sending aircraft to Italy.

This gap sits uncomfortably with the UK’s declared freedom of action policy. A sovereign paint shop capable of full low-observable repair has similarly not been realised. Other infrastructure shortfalls include delayed permanent facilities for 809 Naval Air Squadron and substandard accommodation at RAF Marham, which has hindered recruitment and retention (junior ranks Mess still closed, lack of hot water and heating etc.)

Availability Rates and the Practical Force

11/25 Availability has consistently fallen short of targets. In 2024 the mission-capable rate was approximately half the Ministry of Defence target and the full-mission-capable rate roughly one-third. UK rates lagged the global F-35B fleet. During Highmast rates improved under prioritised support but were judged unsustainable thereafter. Corrosion exacerbated by prolonged maritime exposure has required extensive remediation. Aircraft have been flown to the United States for inspections. Short-term availability is expected to dip further while the backlog is cleared.

Analyses suggest that on a typical day only around ten of the UK-based aircraft may be flyable. Of the 47 airframes, 34 remain on TR-2. The 13 TR-3 aircraft are likely restricted to training pending full combat certification. Four aircraft are maintained in the United States for training purposes.

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Current Position Relative to Original Requirements

24/25 The UK has changed the balance of its F-35 order. It has declared FOC against revised, more qualitative criteria. It has yet to integrate its principal sovereign weapons. Critical facilities for low-observable verification remain years away. Personnel shortfalls will take years to close. Next deliveries are not expected until the early 2030s. Crowsnest is on a path to early withdrawal without a replacement in place.

These facts do not erase the capability that has been fielded. They do indicate that the force remains substantially short of the fully scoped, sustainable fifth-generation carrier and land-based capability originally intended.
 
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According to my calculation that equals more than 2 Rafa.... 2 F-35's per month. :unsure:
Just a couple more than 2 per year, France is broken with IMF at the door, LM output is still a stable 156 a year, with partner and FMS added,
Google said the Rafale with FMS, output can be up to 48 by 2030, Which is still ok, if all the sales go through

No, the xxxxx is such a huge success that it no longer needs defending against self-important idiots

pic, if that's your criteria, The f-35 will never pass your lips again :ROFLMAO:
 
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The engine and cooling work both stem from the amount of heat the F-35’s electronics generate. The F-35 Joint Program Office has said Block 3 jets produce about 30 kilowatts of waste heat, a figure expected to reach 47 kilowatts in Block 4, while the current engine is optimized to absorb about 14 kilowatts. That heat is removed by the Power and Thermal Management System, or PTMS, a Honeywell unit that draws bleed air from the engine and also provides auxiliary and emergency power, engine starting and cabin environmental control, and because the PTMS takes more air from the F135 than its designers planned, the engine runs hotter and wears out faster, raising sustainment costs across the fleet.
Pratt & Whitney’s Engine Core Upgrade, or ECU, redesigns the F135’s core to produce more thrust, supply more bleed air and electrical power, and restore the engine life lost to heat, while the separate Power Thermal Management Upgrade, or PTMU, will replace or enlarge the cooling system that uses that air. In October 2024, the Joint Program Office named Lockheed the lead systems integrator for the PTMU after concluding that no other company could manage the integration, and the order modified this week is the contract vehicle for that role.
Honeywell, which builds the current PTMS, unveiled a near-term cooling option called P40 in September that would raise capacity from about 32 kilowatts to 40 kilowatts through software changes and liquid-cooling modifications, with no airframe changes and fielding planned for 2029 or 2030, and the company says the architecture could later grow to 62 kilowatts or more. Collins Aerospace, a sister company of Pratt & Whitney within RTX, is competing with a new design called the Enhanced Power and Cooling System, and the two companies have said that pairing it with the ECU would yield about a 7% gain in range and thrust along with double the cooling capacity, figures that come from the manufacturers. The modification does not say which approach Lockheed’s trade studies favored or whether preliminary design will cover one solution or several, and the government has not announced a PTMU selection.
 
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This will help a lot
F-35 JPO Announces Transition from ALIS to ODIN
The F‑35 Joint Program Office (JPO) and the Maintenance Systems Program Management Office (MXS PMO) has successfully achieved ODIN Inflection Point criteria, the long‑standing program to transition from the legacy Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) to the modernized Operational Data Integrated Network (ODIN).

This achievement marks the culmination of a multi‑year effort with the delivery of the first release of the ODIN operating software to support the F-35 fleet and a more secure, efficient and resilient information system that supports global F‑35 sustainment operations.
 
This will help a lot
F-35 JPO Announces Transition from ALIS to ODIN
The F‑35 Joint Program Office (JPO) and the Maintenance Systems Program Management Office (MXS PMO) has successfully achieved ODIN Inflection Point criteria, the long‑standing program to transition from the legacy Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) to the modernized Operational Data Integrated Network (ODIN).

This achievement marks the culmination of a multi‑year effort with the delivery of the first release of the ODIN operating software to support the F-35 fleet and a more secure, efficient and resilient information system that supports global F‑35 sustainment operations.
Why? Wasn’t ALIS any good?
 
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