Maritime Patrol Aircraft : P-8I Neptune, Dornier-228 : News & Discussions

Aniruddha said:
Might be the remaining 4 would be approved for procurement along with the procurement of 24 MH60R ASW helis.
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It will take quite sometime to take delivery of the first 6 anyway. And the remaining 4 can come in with more advanced technology that will be developed in the meantime.

From what I understand, the original requirement of 28 has reduced to 22, which had initially reduced to 24 and then 22, the remaining to be supplemented by Guardian drones. It's quite unlikely for the numbers to drop even further from 22 to 18.

Even 22 is too less if you think about it. India's EEZ alone is massive and even then it's only a tiny part of the IOR. We need far more than 22 in the long run, especially when we are seeing no movement on the medium range aircraft deal and the Tu-142 leaving service. At least we are buying a lot of Dorniers.
 
Delighted With Fleet, Indian Navy Clears Decks For 6 More P-8Is

By Shiv Aroor Nov 28 2019, 7:17 pm
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Given how deeply satisfied the Indian Navy has been with the fleet, it was only a matter of time. The Indian Navy’s case for more of these aircraft has been too strong to delay further. And that’s why the Indian MoD today cleared decks for the Indian Navy to acquire six additional Boeing P-8I long range maritime surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft. With eight already in service, and four ordered in 2016, the fresh imminent acquisition will give the Indian Navy a fleet of 18 aircraft. The four additional aircraft already on order will be delivered in 2020-21.

The Harpoon-armed P-8I has ably plugged into the Indian Navy’s vast responsibilities in the region, finding itself deployed across missions, from tracking Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean to assisting in the hunt for the missing MH370 airliner, disaster response, and crucially, the search for lost military aircraft in India’s notoriously difficult north-east. A pair of these aircraft were particularly helpful in keeping tabs on Chinese movements during the Doklam military standoff between India and China in 2017, and kept an eye on the Indian Air Force’s vintage Dakota DC-3 when it was flown in last year. The tracking of Chinese nuclear submarines in the southern Indian Ocean (we’ll have a more detailed report on this shortly) is one of the chief reasons why the Indian Navy has insisted on a larger fleet of P-8Is. The aircraft are said to have performed well in tracking missions in 2017-18.

Indian P-8Is have also been fielded regularly at exercises. One recently flew to Qatar for the Roar Of The Seas exercise, the first naval exercise between the two countries :

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P-8I in Qatar this month for ‘Roar Of The Seas’ exercise

As things stand, the Indian Navy will be looking to expand P-8I operations beyond the fleet’s current home base in Arakkonam in Tamil Nadu.

“The next step is to develop maintenance facilities for the fleet in the Andaman Islands and Goa to give the Indian Navy flexibility in deploying these aircraft where they are needed the most,” says Capt. Dalip Kumar Sharma (Retd.), former spokesperson for the Indian Navy, and who helmed the service’s public affairs during much of the P-8Is entry into Indian service. He indicates the staggered deliveries of the P-8I were requested by the Indian Navy to allow for additional support infrastructure for the P-8I at air stations beyond Arakkonam.

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Primary and secondary maintenance facilities will come up at the Port Blair air station followed by a limited support infrastructure at the INS Hansa naval air station in Goa, where the Indian Navy operates its Il-38SD maritime surveillance aircraft fleet. The P-8Is augmented and then replaced the Indian Navy’s old Soviet Tu-142s, which were retired last year. It is understood that P-8I infrastructure at Goa will be more than just a ‘stage-through’, with a limited maintenance facility likely.

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P-8I on maiden visit to Car Nicobar in Oct 2018

Boeing began delivering P-8Is to the Indian Navy in May 2013. The aircraft deal was signed long before India and the United States had signed COMCASA, an India-specific version of the Communications Interoperability & Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) that facilitated the export of advanced/sensitive technologies. As a result, the Indian Navy P-8I came without certain kit standard on the US Navy version. These were made up for with Indian-developed systems sourced from Indian defence firms, an excellent early example of the Indian private sector meeting specific high technology needs in the defence space, and something that would clear the way for much current work :

1574997332351.png


Like the US Navy version, the Indian Navy’s P-8I sports the Raytheon AN/APY-10 as its primary maritime radar. The Indian version, however, also comes fitted with an aft radar, the Telephonics APS-143 OceanEye and the CAE AN/ASQ 508A magnetic anomaly detector (MAD). Livefist learns that the Indian Navy is weighing a performance-linked logistics & sustainment plan with Boeing for P-8I fleet on the lines of what the Indian Air Force has with its fleet of 11 C-17 Globemasters.

It isn’t clear of the Indian Navy will look for more than 18 P-8Is. The navy contemplated a medium range maritime surveillance (MRMR) capability, and even floated a contest inviting bids for more modest aircraft for tactical/coastal reconnaissance. The erstwhile contest saw Boeing field a P-8I ‘Lite’, stripped of certain advanced sensors and technology. Things have changed since, with the Indian Navy placing such missions mostly on its Dornier Do-228 fleet, with a door tentatively open for the proposed C295 based multi-mission maritime aircraft being developed by India’s DRDO.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ndian-navy-clears-decks-for-6-more-p-8is.html
 
randomradio said:
It will take quite sometime to take delivery of the first 6 anyway. And the remaining 4 can come in with more advanced technology that will be developed in the meantime.

From what I understand, the original requirement of 28 has reduced to 22, which had initially reduced to 24 and then 22, the remaining to be supplemented by Guardian drones. It's quite unlikely for the numbers to drop even further from 22 to 18.

Even 22 is too less if you think about it. India's EEZ alone is massive and even then it's only a tiny part of the IOR. We need far more than 22 in the long run, especially when we are seeing no movement on the medium range aircraft deal and the Tu-142 leaving service. At least we are buying a lot of Dorniers.
Click to expand...
Original requirement was of 30. But considering how expensive the aircraft is the number was dropped to 22.
 
Gautam said:
Delighted With Fleet, Indian Navy Clears Decks For 6 More P-8Is

By Shiv Aroor Nov 28 2019, 7:17 pm
View attachment 11654

Given how deeply satisfied the Indian Navy has been with the fleet, it was only a matter of time. The Indian Navy’s case for more of these aircraft has been too strong to delay further. And that’s why the Indian MoD today cleared decks for the Indian Navy to acquire six additional Boeing P-8I long range maritime surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft. With eight already in service, and four ordered in 2016, the fresh imminent acquisition will give the Indian Navy a fleet of 18 aircraft. The four additional aircraft already on order will be delivered in 2020-21.

The Harpoon-armed P-8I has ably plugged into the Indian Navy’s vast responsibilities in the region, finding itself deployed across missions, from tracking Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean to assisting in the hunt for the missing MH370 airliner, disaster response, and crucially, the search for lost military aircraft in India’s notoriously difficult north-east. A pair of these aircraft were particularly helpful in keeping tabs on Chinese movements during the Doklam military standoff between India and China in 2017, and kept an eye on the Indian Air Force’s vintage Dakota DC-3 when it was flown in last year. The tracking of Chinese nuclear submarines in the southern Indian Ocean (we’ll have a more detailed report on this shortly) is one of the chief reasons why the Indian Navy has insisted on a larger fleet of P-8Is. The aircraft are said to have performed well in tracking missions in 2017-18.

Indian P-8Is have also been fielded regularly at exercises. One recently flew to Qatar for the Roar Of The Seas exercise, the first naval exercise between the two countries :

View attachment 11655
P-8I in Qatar this month for ‘Roar Of The Seas’ exercise

As things stand, the Indian Navy will be looking to expand P-8I operations beyond the fleet’s current home base in Arakkonam in Tamil Nadu.

“The next step is to develop maintenance facilities for the fleet in the Andaman Islands and Goa to give the Indian Navy flexibility in deploying these aircraft where they are needed the most,” says Capt. Dalip Kumar Sharma (Retd.), former spokesperson for the Indian Navy, and who helmed the service’s public affairs during much of the P-8Is entry into Indian service. He indicates the staggered deliveries of the P-8I were requested by the Indian Navy to allow for additional support infrastructure for the P-8I at air stations beyond Arakkonam.

View attachment 11656

Primary and secondary maintenance facilities will come up at the Port Blair air station followed by a limited support infrastructure at the INS Hansa naval air station in Goa, where the Indian Navy operates its Il-38SD maritime surveillance aircraft fleet. The P-8Is augmented and then replaced the Indian Navy’s old Soviet Tu-142s, which were retired last year. It is understood that P-8I infrastructure at Goa will be more than just a ‘stage-through’, with a limited maintenance facility likely.

View attachment 11657
P-8I on maiden visit to Car Nicobar in Oct 2018

Boeing began delivering P-8Is to the Indian Navy in May 2013. The aircraft deal was signed long before India and the United States had signed COMCASA, an India-specific version of the Communications Interoperability & Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) that facilitated the export of advanced/sensitive technologies. As a result, the Indian Navy P-8I came without certain kit standard on the US Navy version. These were made up for with Indian-developed systems sourced from Indian defence firms, an excellent early example of the Indian private sector meeting specific high technology needs in the defence space, and something that would clear the way for much current work :

View attachment 11658

Like the US Navy version, the Indian Navy’s P-8I sports the Raytheon AN/APY-10 as its primary maritime radar. The Indian version, however, also comes fitted with an aft radar, the Telephonics APS-143 OceanEye and the CAE AN/ASQ 508A magnetic anomaly detector (MAD). Livefist learns that the Indian Navy is weighing a performance-linked logistics & sustainment plan with Boeing for P-8I fleet on the lines of what the Indian Air Force has with its fleet of 11 C-17 Globemasters.

It isn’t clear of the Indian Navy will look for more than 18 P-8Is. The navy contemplated a medium range maritime surveillance (MRMR) capability, and even floated a contest inviting bids for more modest aircraft for tactical/coastal reconnaissance. The erstwhile contest saw Boeing field a P-8I ‘Lite’, stripped of certain advanced sensors and technology. Things have changed since, with the Indian Navy placing such missions mostly on its Dornier Do-228 fleet, with a door tentatively open for the proposed C295 based multi-mission maritime aircraft being developed by India’s DRDO.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ndian-navy-clears-decks-for-6-more-p-8is.html
Click to expand...
What is this on us navy p8 aircraft. A special type of radar..?
 

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Abhay rajput said:
What do you think about the capabilities of our phalcon awacs in comparison to Chinese and Saab eyerie awacs.
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The radar of the Phalcon will out do both the SAAB and the Chinese everywhere. The only problem is the platform its based on, its not bad but there are better options available.

The SAAB Eyerie is based on a business jet so it doesn't have the endurance of the Il-76. But the Chinese AWACS are also based on the Il-76 so expect similar endurance as the Phalcon.
 
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Starting April, Navy to induct 4 more P8I reconnaissance aircrafts

More than a year later after the Pulwama attack , the navy will be inducting more such aircrafts, boosting its capability to conduct sustained surveillance and anti-ship and submarine preparedness in the Indian Ocean Region.

ET Bureau | Last Updated: Feb 16, 2020, 11.12 PM IST
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Representative Image

NEW DELHI: The Navy’s P8I long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft had played an important role in gathering intelligence on Pakistani military deployments and keeping India’s western seaboard safe after the Pulwama attack last year.

More than a year later, the navy will be inducting more such aircraft, boosting its capability to conduct sustained surveillance and anti-ship and submarine preparedness in the Indian Ocean Region.

According to officials, from April the navy will begin inducting four P8I aircraft worth $1.1b, orders for which were placed in 2016.

Starting April, Navy to induct 4 more P8I reconnaissance aircrafts
 
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Hopefully deal for 6 more is finalized soon, so that Il38 are quickly replaced.

If we delay further, there might be chances that P8 production ceases
 
Can we repurpose il38 for stand off jamming aircraft becoz it's airframe have the unique structure to support jamming and signal intelligence device's
 
With New P-8I Deal, Indian Navy Could Get Advanced U.S. Tech Earlier Denied

By Shiv Aroor
Feb 18 2020, 10:30 am
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The Indian Navy’s Boeing P-8I long range maritime reconnaissance & anti-submarine aircraft could be fitted with a list of crucial U.S. technologies that had earlier been held back by the United States owing to the absence of a necessary bilateral agreement. Well, theoretically. It all depends on whether the Indian Navy wants it.

First, some background.

The Indian Navy contracted for eight P-8I jets in January 2009, at which time India wasn’t yet a signatory to the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA), resulting in a large list of sensitive proprietary systems being held off the Indian planes. Four additional P-8I jets ordered by the Indian Navy in 2016, which begin delivery in April this year, will similarly be without the U.S. proprietary tech. In 2018, after over a decade in discussion, India and the United States finally signed the COMCASA, for the first time paving the way for U.S. high-end secured/encrypted communication equipment on American platforms supplied.

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The 9th P-8I for the Indian Navy seen here under construction months ago.

A year after the facilitation framework of the COMCASA kicked into action, the Indian MoD in November last year cleared the Indian Navy to contract for six more P-8Is. This new deal, currently being negotiated between India and the U.S. Government, will be the first U.S.-India aircraft contract under the new COMCASA regime. Livefist can confirm that while certain software changes have been asked for on the new jets, the Indian Navy hasn’t taken a decision yet on whether it wishes to consider the items held back by the US Government earlier. The Indian MoD is also keen to keep cost contours on par with the previous P-8I deals, and that could slow progress towards a contract.

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If India manages to negotiate a 6 P-8I contract that includes U.S. equipment held back on the first 12 P-8Is, it would be reasonable to assume that India will be looking to get the earlier aircraft retrofitted with the said systems to maintain commonality. As things stand, the Indian Navy will likely be looking to contract the P-8Is without the said U.S. equipment — and staying with the Indian equipment earlier contracted in replacement. The original 8 P-8Is, as Livefist first detailed here, were integrated with Indian-made replacement systems for encrypted voice, IFF and advanced secret communication equipment. This diagram provides a clear picture of the kinds of systems held off the pre-COMCASA P-8Is and per force replaced with Indian systems.

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What’s crucial is that the items earlier held back are now available in case the Indian Navy wants to get them — the U.S. Government has also conveyed that such equipment would go a way towards true communications interoperability. Should that situation arise, the Indian Navy will be looking to choose from a list of 5 pieces of equipment that includes (or similar to) the AN/ARC-222 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGARS) manufacured by Magnovox and administered by the US Air Force, KV-119 IFF Digital Transponder (Mode 4 Crypto Applique) manufactured by Raytheon, TACTERM/ANDVT Secure Voice (HF) Terminal, VINSON KY-58 Secure Voice (UHF/VHF) Module and the Rockwell-Collins AN/ARC-210(V) SATCOM Transceiver’s COMSEC/DAMA embdedded RT.

The SINCGARS, for instance, is a combat net radio deployed by the US military for encrypted voice and data communications. The KV-119 is a highly evolved Identify Friend/Foe transponder. The ANDVT is a secure voice terminal for low bandwidth secure voice communications in use throughout the US military. The VINSON KY-58 is a secure voice module that involves encrypted communication to and from military aircraft and other vehicles. The AN/ARC-210 is a family of radios for military aircraft that provides two-way voice and data communications across modes. These or pieces of equipment similar to these were also held off the Indian Air Force’s C-130J Super Hercules transport aircraft.

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Indian Navy P-8I in Qatar in 2019 for the ‘Roar Of The Sea’ exercise.

Barring any additions and software tweaks, the new P-8Is being negotiated will be identical to the ones in service with the Indian Navy, sporting the Raytheon AN/APY-10 primary radar and L-3 Communications Wescam MX-20HD digital electro-optical and infrared (EO/IR) multispectral sensor turret, and two sensors absent on the US Navy’s P-8As that were specifically asked for by the Indian Navy — the Telephonics APS-143 OceanEye aft radar and CAE AN/ASQ 508A magnetic anomaly detector.

The Indian Navy’s ninth P-8I will be delivered in April this year, with three more to arrive next year. While home base will remain Arakkonam on India’s east coast, work has begun to give the Indian Navy the flexibility to base the aircraft in Goa and Port Blair. The deal for six more aircraft could be signed by the end of this year, though it could take longer.

With New P-8I Deal, Indian Navy Could Get Advanced U.S. Tech Earlier Denied
 
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