at the end of the day it comes down to price, if the a400M is like 2x more expensive compared to the C390 then the IAF will go for the C390, if its 1.5x then IAF will go for the A400M
Medium Transport Aircraft (MTA) for IAF
- Thread starter Fatalis
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It's about size and mass. A smaller aircraft is less constrained in the mountains, that's why it can lift pretty much all of its weight. C-17 receives the most punishment, C-2 and A400M follow, and C-390 faces the least.
All of them are fuel limited in Leh.
C-390's range with max payload is 2000 km, whereas it only needs to fly about 200-400 km from Srinagar/Punjab or at worst 600-700 km from Delhi.
They will get rejected. Just like most participants do in such tenders. That's the point of a shortlist. Tata can try their luck.
The limits imposed are after all that is taken into account. You're asking the C-390 to push >96% of its payload capacity whereas for most aircraft (even small ones like An-32), the routine safe limit to these regions is 40-60% when maintaining enough fuel for rerouting & exigencies.
Like I said, flying on fumes to prove a point is not a flight plan. As a training/proving exercise maybe. But not as routine operation. We don't have enough refuelers to support every airlift operation either.
If Zorawar deployment to Leh/Kargil was a primary need for MTA, the requirements would have demanded much higher margins when you have a 25-30T tank to move.
An-32 is payload-limited due to different reasons. The same doesn't apply to the C-390.
C-390 was specifically designed for hot and high conditions, unlike C-17, C-2, and A400M, specifically up to 14000 feet, so it covers Leh, due to the operational environment in South America, read Andes.
Same as MMRCA. When the MTA was announced, 2022 (18-27T), Zorawar wasn't part of the requirements. That's also why IL-214 was meant to carry 20T. But now it is. So they are keeping the same weight limits, so as to not be rude to the Americans, just like they did for the F-16 and Gripen E during MMRCA. This also led to people confusing the requirement, without realizing the SEFs were never gonna get shortlisted.
The plan earlier was to buy more IL-476 and upgrade older IL-76, but now they have collapsed that requirement into MTA, so new payload numbers (2025, 18-30T). C-130J will never get shortlisted. Even new C-130s are subject to Trump's antics.
Now, even that 30T limit is a soft requirement. I guess finances will decide whether C-2/A400M or C-390 will be chosen.
I learn new things here I'd never have known on any other forum which is what draws me repeatedly against my will to this forum. It rests exclusively on the collection of members here.
Essentially the pre qualification for an MTA is now only the ability to carry the Zorawar tank . If you use the term reduced the joke's on you .
All other considerations / advantages etc that specific transporters can offer is subordinate to this one over arching requirement.
In case anyone doubts the veracity of the requirement I'd have you know this is veritably from the horse's mouth . Besides it's not even 8 pm . That's the ultimate test of truth out here.
Essentially the pre qualification for an MTA is now only the ability to carry the Zorawar tank . If you use the term reduced the joke's on you .
All other considerations / advantages etc that specific transporters can offer is subordinate to this one over arching requirement.
In case anyone doubts the veracity of the requirement I'd have you know this is veritably from the horse's mouth . Besides it's not even 8 pm . That's the ultimate test of truth out here.
An-32 itself was specifically engineered for hot/high conditions. That's the whole reason we bought it instead of the cheaper An-26.
Nobody is saying C-390 can't operate at Leh. The question is how much it can carry up there under realistic scenarios. There's no mechanized enemy to fight in the Andes. The most you need up there is a ~10T armoured car to raid drug factories.
High-octane speculation is what it is.
If there's a light tank airmobility requirement, that would be front & centre for MTA program. We can't accommodate the Americans in every single tender and they know it as well as we do. Not to mention we've already bought C-130Js and may buy more independent of this program.
Can it carry the Zorawar ? Otherwise they'd be better advised to save their time & desist from competing.
Which plane? AFAIK russia doesn't have any modern military transport in medium weight category in production.
The Russians will probably offer the under development Ilysuhin Il-276, which, once upon a time, was supposed to be the UAC-HAL MTA replacement for the aging An-32 fleet. It's MTOW is 20-tonnes, so like the C-130J, it can't carry the Zorawar either.
While that's true, they haven't got anything else which can even come close to fit the bill. This means that the Russian offer is a non-starter, even if they respond to the RfP.
На "Авиастаре" готовятся собирать два новых самолета: "Слон" и Ил-276
На прошедшей встрече президента РФ Владимира Путина и губернатора Ульяновской области Алексея Русских обсуждался вопрос технического перевооружения завода "Авиастар". – У нас есть программа выпуска новых самолетов Ил-100. Сейчас идет проектирование. Еще один самолет, который будет собираться на пло
ulpressa.ru
An-32's design limitations are specific to its time.
As I said, the C-390 can carry Zorawar to Leh. It's the same as how IL-76 can carry the T-72 to Leh. Both at 95% of their payload.
C-130J can't replace the IL-76's requirement.
The new IL-76 replacement and Zorawar requirements were part of the new RFI/RFP from 2025.
For the slow folk out there, the point of Zorawar is it eliminates the C-130J.
IL-214/276 is not operational, so won't make it in the tender either. They are both the Gripen E/F-16 of the MTA.
This is all part of the "Thinking is a privilege" saga.
C-2 can achieve T1, C-390 will be L1. Knowing this requires thinking.
The main reasons why C-2 will be T-1, its cruise speed is faster than the C-17, which allows it to fly in civilian air routes, unlikethe C-17. It can operate from very short runways, less than 800m. It carries 10T extra payload to twice the distance as the C-390. And it's designed for high altitude conditions too.
C-390 is a smaller and cheaper C-2.
For the slow folk out there, the point of Zorawar is it eliminates the C-130J.
IL-214/276 is not operational, so won't make it in the tender either. They are both the Gripen E/F-16 of the MTA.
This is all part of the "Thinking is a privilege" saga.
C-2 can achieve T1, C-390 will be L1. Knowing this requires thinking.
The main reasons why C-2 will be T-1, its cruise speed is faster than the C-17, which allows it to fly in civilian air routes, unlikethe C-17. It can operate from very short runways, less than 800m. It carries 10T extra payload to twice the distance as the C-390. And it's designed for high altitude conditions too.
C-390 is a smaller and cheaper C-2.
So these two aircraft are in effect the most likely to win. And yes, all "considerations/advantages" offered by these airframes are already taken for granted given they are all modern tactical transports like the IL-76. STOL and austere runway operations are now pretty standard features.
Oof, the amount of effort I need to put in even when stating the obvious. I now have immense respect for primary school teachers, especially in special schools, for the amount of effort put into a deadend student with no future hope of reaching full development.
Oof, the amount of effort I need to put in even when stating the obvious. I now have immense respect for primary school teachers, especially in special schools, for the amount of effort put into a deadend student with no future hope of reaching full development.