Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF

[randomradio]

Aare those old Mirage 2000s better than MK1A? Do those old planes make sense now (i.e. MK2 coming in 5 years)?

Better or not, the M2000 can do things Mk1A cannot, like penetration missions. With 12 jets, and M2000 only expected to retire by 2045, yeah, it makes sense. We have 50 jets in 3 squadrons. So we can either add these 12 jets to existing squadrons or create a new half squadron, I guess it depends on whether we want to upgrade the jets to the current standards.

These jets add value even if Mk2 comes in.

 

[Ashwin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1893251281650598148

 

[Lolwa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1893251281650598148

We need to get those bad boys.

 

[Sathya]

We need to get those bad boys.

Dassault itself is finding difficult to support Greece Mirages , why do you think we can ?

They're going to use till 2027, our Mk2 would have had first flight then.. and another couple years , serial production would have started..


Why induct a obsolete aircraft when we can get new generation contemporary aircraft ?

Greece itself looking to procure few Rafles from the proceeds of Mirages sale.

Don't we have better choice? We can buy more Mk2 in that same amount compared to How many Rafales Greece can buy out of that amount.

By buying more Mk2 our own aircrafts will cost lesser to us ..

 

[randomradio]

Dassault itself is finding difficult to support Greece Mirages , why do you think we can ?

They're going to use till 2027, our Mk2 would have had first flight then.. and another couple years , serial production would have started..


Why induct a obsolete aircraft when we can get new generation contemporary aircraft ?

Greece itself looking to procure few Rafles from the proceeds of Mirages sale.

Don't we have better choice? We can buy more Mk2 in that same amount compared to How many Rafales Greece can buy out of that amount.

By buying more Mk2 our own aircrafts will cost lesser to us ..

The older version can be cannibalized. The newer version, we can use 2 additional trainers, but we don't need the rest 'cause the asking price is apparently too high. The only potential customer for this jet is India, so we just have to let them stew until they drop the prices on their own.

Regardless of future procurements, our squadron drawdown is so severe that buying any new jet we can put to use will be a big boost to our fighting strength. Even those 21 Mig-29s. With plans to extend the life of the Mig-29s, it's possible even this deal is back on the table.

These jets will give us the 15 years we need to make up for the shortfall. We have to be prepared for the possibility of going beyond 45 squadrons as well.

 

[Lolwa]

Dassault itself is finding difficult to support Greece Mirages , why do you think we can ?

They're going to use till 2027, our Mk2 would have had first flight then.. and another couple years , serial production would have started..


Why induct a obsolete aircraft when we can get new generation contemporary aircraft ?

Greece itself looking to procure few Rafles from the proceeds of Mirages sale.

Don't we have better choice? We can buy more Mk2 in that same amount compared to How many Rafales Greece can buy out of that amount.

By buying more Mk2 our own aircrafts will cost lesser to us ..

Let's be real. Have you seen our speed of manufacturing. It's 2025 and we only have 40 mk1's in service. What makes you think we will have mk2 ready for mass induction by 2027. It's prototype hasn't even flown yet. By the time mk2 has its first flight, two whole squadrons of mirage 2000's with scalp eg firing capability will be available.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

By the time mk2 has its first flight, two whole squadrons of mirage 2000's with scalp eg firing capability will be available.

Is paying 40-50 mil for <10 years justified? That is the question.

This is the argument stopping IAF from buying 2nd hand M2000s and Mig29s.

 

[Sathya]

Let's be real. Have you seen our speed of manufacturing. It's 2025 and we only have 40 mk1's in service. What makes you think we will have mk2 ready for mass induction by 2027. It's prototype hasn't even flown yet. By the time mk2 has its first flight, two whole squadrons of mirage 2000's with scalp eg firing capability will be available.

Better to buy old Rafale than old Mirages.

If we have source codes then we can utilise our advanced weapons inventory.. otherwise is merely adding up obsolete numbers..

Even though Mig 29 has lesser life and we have 100+ ( UPG + K variants) and we make their engines, integrating weapons ourselves like Rampage etc + EW to make it contemporary.

Can u say the same about Mirages ?

 

[Lolwa]

Better to buy old Rafale than old Mirages.

If we have source codes then we can utilise our advanced weapons inventory.. otherwise is merely adding up obsolete numbers..

Even though Mig 29 has lesser life and we have 100+ ( UPG + K variants) and we make their engines, integrating weapons ourselves like Rampage etc + EW to make it contemporary.

Can u say the same about Mirages ?

Yes the pakistanis did it with their mirage 3 and mirage V and post balakot in swift retort they were the ones that were used apart from the f-16's for striking on the indian side. The Greek mirages are already integrated with the scalp eg. A major reason why we bought the rafale for. We can integrate a2g munitions like aasm hammer and saaw. When we could integrate r-73's with mirage would could also integrate new a2g munitions. The mirage is still our premier a2g striker in our inventory as shown in balakot.
We need a project rose style programme like what the Pakistanis did with their mirage 3/5 fleet.
What we need to do is buy the
UAE, Qatari, Greek and Egyptian Mirages.
Then standardise them to the most modern standard. Integrate entire a2g catalogue from scalp eg, hammer, nasm-mr, saaw, garuthama, hsld, al-tariq, tara, jdam-er, rudram and Astra mk1/2.
Set up MRO facility(we already have that but expansion needed) for mirage 2000 along with m-53 production(involve private partners like lokesh machine toolings or kalyani).
Possibly attempt integration of the uttam radar and ram coating for RCS reduction
If possible buy more second hand mirages from the French adn upgrade them further.
We have a very capable mach 2 fighter bomber.
Also from what I've seen we need fighters that have a large array of stand off option to take out targets. The mirage 2000 doesn't need to go inside enemy airspace to hit targets like in balakot. It just needs to lob of munitions from indian airspace into enemy air space. And mirage is compatible with nato and israeli weapons. Far more compatible than any russian aircraft in our inventory.
We could go for second hand rafales too like Greeks. Although we still need a 100-120 fleet of mirage 2000

 

[randomradio]

Is paying 40-50 mil for <10 years justified? That is the question.

This is the argument stopping IAF from buying 2nd hand M2000s and Mig29s.

It will last much longer than that, almost 20 years, but procurement cost will be made up due to lower operations cost. IAF wants Qatari jets at less than $40M per piece, but this includes spares and weapons. So it's definitely a good deal if it goes through.

The 21 Mig-29 are $30M per unit, but with the upgrades and full service life.

 

[randomradio]

Even though Mig 29 has lesser life and we have 100+ ( UPG + K variants) and we make their engines, integrating weapons ourselves like Rampage etc + EW to make it contemporary.

Can u say the same about Mirages ?

The Mirages we wanna put into service are the 2000-5s. They can already fire MICA and SCALP. So the upgrade requirement is much smaller than the Mig-29.

 

[Sathya]

Yes the pakistanis did it with their mirage 3 and mirage V and post balakot in swift retort they were the ones that were used apart from the f-16's for striking on the indian side. The Greek mirages are already integrated with the scalp eg. A major reason why we bought the rafale for. We can integrate a2g munitions like aasm hammer and saaw. When we could integrate r-73's with mirage would could also integrate new a2g munitions. The mirage is still our premier a2g striker in our inventory as shown in balakot.
We need a project rose style programme like what the Pakistanis did with their mirage 3/5 fleet.
What we need to do is buy the
UAE, Qatari, Greek and Egyptian Mirages.
Then standardise them to the most modern standard. Integrate entire a2g catalogue from scalp eg, hammer, nasm-mr, saaw, garuthama, hsld, al-tariq, tara, jdam-er, rudram and Astra mk1/2.
Set up MRO facility(we already have that but expansion needed) for mirage 2000 along with m-53 production(involve private partners like lokesh machine toolings or kalyani).
Possibly attempt integration of the uttam radar and ram coating for RCS reduction
If possible buy more second hand mirages from the French adn upgrade them further.
We have a very capable mach 2 fighter bomber.
Also from what I've seen we need fighters that have a large array of stand off option to take out targets. The mirage 2000 doesn't need to go inside enemy airspace to hit targets like in balakot. It just needs to lob of munitions from indian airspace into enemy air space. And mirage is compatible with nato and israeli weapons. Far more compatible than any russian aircraft in our inventory.
We could go for second hand rafales too like Greeks. Although we still need a 100-120 fleet of mirage 2000

Even the french didn't upgrade Mirage after that.. gone to Rafale.

Mere upgradation took us 40 million $ a pop.,15 years back.

If we buy + standardized to IAF for a minimum 50 million $ a pop, for 10 -15 years of life , we can have lot of options instead..

We can buy a new Rafale for 2 old Mirages ,
We can buy a Super su 30 UPG for 2 old Mirages
we can even buy 1 MWF for 1 old Mirage .
All contemporary generation aircrafts with a full life of 30-40 years .

Standard set for MWF to surpass is Mirage2000.. now it is done , why u still want Mirage 2000.

Unless it's at throwaway price like less than 10 million $ a pop, we should not go for it .

We not are buying it anyways.

We ll have the discussion if some credible movement happen ..

 

[Sathya]

Tejas Mk1 radar cross section is supposed to be 1/3 of a Mirage 2000.
Mk2 is 1/4 of Mk1.
Mk2 is planning to retractable refueling probe unlike Mirage 2005 / Mk1A.

 

[Ashwin]

 

[Jersey27]

We can buy a new Rafale for 2 old Mirages ,
We can buy a Super su 30 UPG for 2 old Mirages
we can even buy 1 MWF for 1 old Mirage .
All contemporary generation aircrafts with a full life of 30-40 years .

That's not a fair comparison because the second hand planes can be delivered in a few months, whereas brand new Rafales and MWF will take around 5 years (probably a bit less for Super Sukhoi).