There were no stealth aircrafts in 60s but in coming decades there will be plenty of them, pitted directly against us. And IRST is the best system available to detect stealth planes. That is why it is a must have system now even if it wasn't in past.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
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Not really, A normal capable radar can detect stealth aircraft at short ranges same as IRST. Its not possible to detect and identify an aircraft in long range with IRST. If both sides are having steath aircrafts then one having IRST has an advantage.
A normal capable radar can't detect a truly stealth aircraft like F35 from BVR distance i.e > 30 Kms but an advanced IRST could. Infact French and Russians are working on to increase the range of IRST to as much as 100kms.
Its was a bean counter decision. "Put only 9 million worth of avionics." So what you throw away then? Certainly not Radar. Certainly nor RWR. Nor self defence systems like Missile launch detector. The IRST has to go.
"Must-have" depends upon whom you are facing. If you are facing China with stealthy fighters like J-20 or J-31 or its future variants OR smaller fighters like JF-17, it does make sense to complement your smaller and less capable radar with an IR sensor.
Mirage is a great plane but it is getting outdated. I wrote that in my first post. It is very likely to face fighters with AESA radar on both the fronts (China J-10s, J-11 etc and Pakistan JF-17s), so it makes sense to upgrade its sensor beyond PESA. Trouble is, there is no such sensor available from off the shelf. We did spend some money on getting a PESA radar for 1+ billion dollars. May be if we get Uttam radar finally working (after 1 billion years of development <sarcasm> ).
Its even making a comeback in French standard fighters in future. Obviously, it mattered.
JF-17 Block 3 will have one for sure.
Yes, MKI's Bars can detect an F-35 at ~30km. the problem is only after say ~50km. No, IRST cant detect and identify F-35 outside of those ranges. Let alone getting a firing solution. Those extreme ranges are in perfect condition on a big target.
So what about F-15 and F-16? "counter decision"?
Why not add J-35 also? We are talking about Mirage upgrade done in 2012.
Ya, then in this subcontinent only the so-called fifth-gen J-21 matter. case closed.
You wish.
Here, is the result of a simulation of detecting F35 from an IRST sensor which proves my point. IRST didn't perform well only in the case of heavy rainfall but since most of the fighter jets operate above cloud cover it doesn't matter.
Here is the link of whole pdf.
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Generate more sorties with the F-35? Are you sure?
I am considering development is complete.
Regardless, even if they only generate 3 sorties a day, with 60 jets, you get 180 sorties. So it's in any case more than the 30 Rafales on CdG with 5 sorties managing 150 a day. Plus, the crew is going to be far more relaxed with the smaller number of sorties. You can't discount crew fatigue, especially that of the traffic controller.
But once F-35 development is complete and it manages 5 sorties, we are talking about 300 sorties a day. Greater number is naturally the best way to generate more sorties.
Then all you have is a jet that can manage against a Flanker, and not the 5 or 6 other types of jets the enemy possesses.
Also, the aerodynamics of our Flanker is completely different from that of the Chinese Flankers due to the use of the TVC. Then the signature is different, pilot quality is different, operational employment is different. Basically, just to deal with the Flanker, we will need a month's worth of testing in various conditions, and that data is still going to be useless when it comes to the Chinese Flanker, never mind all the other types of jets.
The idea behind DACT is to train the pilot, not the aircraft.
F-35 does not have a true IRST and it is old design. The latest variety on F-18s carried on centreline fuel tank has much longer detection range.
That was for F-14s. The newer one is IRST21 and that has more range than any contemporary systems.
This is a simulation-based on too many assumptions starting with the exhaust radiant intensity. Even if it's half true, It would have revolutionized aerial warfare (Detecting F-35 at 100km!). Also, check what i wrote. It should be able to identify and get a firing solution. Detect->Track->Identify-> firing solution. I have never heard these happening in a real-world situation outside of ~30km.
The whataboutry kicks in LOL!
F-15 has IRST offered on their international versions. A LOT!
Unless entire Korea, Israel, Saudi are dead wrong, we have a pretty good case for F-15 sporting a IRST.
Also, the proposed upgraded variant to keep F-15C relevant till 2040 features a IRST.
F-16 E/F does that as well.
That said, USAF never really deployed F-16 E/F. There is a reason for that. And that reason is a 1 trillion dollar hog called F-35. It was supposed to be single solution to ALL arms of US military. It became a massive delay and drain during development and its after effects are still being felt.
The reason why all these F-16s and F-15s in US (Not international customers) are missing IRST is because F-35 was supposed to bring the holy grail of sensor fusion combining opto-electric with radar. So there was no point of spending money in upgrading F-16s and F-15s. International customers who were not going to get F-35 or wanted it in very limited quantities went F-16s and F-15 with IRST.
BTW, F-18 in USN has a new IRST pod.
No dear, we are talking about M-2000 in general and where it lacks even though it is a great platform.
If you only have troll replies left then I guess it shows you never understood the topic in the first place
I don't need to wish. There are already pics of JF-17 flying with IRST pod. It is also likely that you will see a JF-17 block 3 integrated with one... no matter how pathetic, given it is a chinese product, it is likely to have one.
No, he is merely trying too hard to win an argument. Reality be damned.
Indeed! IRST21 on F/A-18 E/F is pretty formidable. What I find a bit weird is that it is mounted on centreline fuel tank. If a pilot wants to purge that tank, then he purges the sensor as well?
Isn't F-35 having a super IRST with 360 degree vision called AN/AAQ-37 ?
No, You said F-22 was a cost-cutting choice. So i asked why is it the case for other fighters in the USAF. Why they choose not to have it on any of their front line fighters.
Its a simple question no need to get riled up.
You were ranting about Mirage upgrade not having IRST and whys its expensive. You are good at ranting but not able to explain your rants.
You are giving nonexistent scenarios.
Yet to explain why Mirage 2000 need IRST. While ignoring how non of the PAF fighter has it. Your only argument is how most future fighter will have it. Which still dont explain why every indian fighter should have it. When half of the fleet already has it.
Shows how much you understand.
I guess you got the answer already, don't you?
Here is what I said
Its clear as day what I said and meant. M2000 are NOT going to get AESA ever because we just spent 1 billion + dollars to upgrade it to RDY 3 radar. Thats all.
I never said "expensive" or anything like that. You are imagining things and thats your problem.
I mentioned it, haven't I?
M2000 will have to face likes of JF-17 block 3, J-10B/Cs, J-11s with IRST. Not to mention stealthy planes like J-31s or J-20s in future. Tell me that "it is imaginary scenario"?
BTW, do notice that J10B/Cs and J-11s are already flying.
Once more, counter with facts, if you cann't then stuff it.
F-35 Lightning II | Northrop Grumman
F-35 Lightning II is a stealthy, supersonic, multi-role fighter designed to meet the requirements of the United States and allied forces worldwide as the next generation fighter.
www.northropgrumman.com
For all the snarky comments you haven't backed it up with any content or facts.
Cool, Now made it about AESA.
For the same point, i have clearly explained there is no need to have fleet wide AESA or IRST.
Then you went ahead and nitpicked the F-22 ignoring how the entire USAF is missing IRST part.
Anyway, good talk since you have backed off from IRST rant.