MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

[Amarante]

When the target is receding, the missile's range drops by multiple times. The crash site is 100 km away. The NEZ of P-15 against a head-on target is no more than 45-50 km. Less than half that against a receding target. And the base is 90 km away from the border, and even greater if PAF CAP is at 50 km from border.

Anyway, it's possible the M88 video is a deep fake.

There's no damage to the ground, no crater, no burns, no drag marks, it's like it's been placed there. Even the foliage under the engine seems the same as what's around it. All that should have disappeared. Let's not forget that's the top soil of a farm, it should have dug into the mud. And GoI has confirmed that no aircraft were shot down on our side on the first day too.

Plus it's been almost 2 days and there's no other confirmation video, especially for the tail number. It should have become available by now.

So the news is very likely fake.

@vstol Jockey @LX1111

beg your pardon,
Have you mentioned on the forum the possibility that, for some reason, this part of the engine was lost during the low-altitude return flight?
The angle of descent (may have) caused it to "bounce" on the ground rather than create a crater.

And that the bird returned to the nest with only one engine. After all, that's what it's designed for: "one is none, two is one".

 

[randomradio]

beg your pardon,
Have you mentioned on the forum the possibility that, for some reason, this part of the engine was lost during the low-altitude return flight?
The angle of descent (may have) caused it to "bounce" on the ground rather than create a crater.

And that the bird returned to the nest with only one engine. After all, that's what it's designed for: "one is none, two is one".

The engine's been split into two. The damage would have been quite significant. But nothing's even out of place on the ground.

Anyway, we are not discussing this anymore, it's pointless. We have to wait for IAF confirmation. They are not gonna hide such losses.

 

[South block]

MMRCA need to be F 35 period. We need some fifth generation fighter jet as Chong will be selling some of their tin cans to Chinese soon.

 

[nayra]

I am not an expert neither I know if we lose Rafale or not and hope it was some minor UAV crash but this guy (he is an ex-Rafale-M pilot of the French Navy) has done a comprehensive breakdown of all scenarios that may have unfolded on that night (turn on english audio track)

He highlighted some shortcomings of Rafale, French tactics/SOPs and our operations.
An important point he mentioned is that in all the multilateral exercises like Anatolian Eagle, Pakistanis bring intelligence officers who put on pilot uniforms and they have pretty high level of understanding about our platforms like Rafale and M2000, on the other hand, J-10s is like a blackbox for us.

But I believe (even though I may sound like stupid desk general (which maybe I am)) that IAF should have first sanitized the airspace and carried out some SEAD operations before hitting the actual targets and in press debrief, they could have said that we shoot them in self-defence because they tried to shoot our planes while we do the operations and actively protecting the terrorists(which they did).

 

[Lolwa]

Neither of them fit in anymore.

The F-35 is already underpowered, and will see a serious drop in thrust over the Himalayas. For example, Mig-29UPG may have 83 kN of power, but it's closer to 75 kN in Indian hot conditions and even worse in the Himalayas. The F-35's will drop big time. We need a 25T engine on it.

As for Su-57, Russia is currently a hot potato for imports. A lot of the stuff we need currently is from the West, like F414 and AMCA's engine. We cannot buy anything new from Russia until the main Western imports are completed. In any case, generic imports from Russia has come to an end, it's practically official govt policy now.

Anyway, we can't afford to play to PLAAF's strengths with our economy. In order to fight PLAAF, we will need 400 Rafale + AMCA or about 1000 Su-57s. The math doesn't work out for us by using heavies. Kinda like we can't win a car race with a cheaper car, but we can buy a better performing motorcycle to win the race. So what matters is winning the race.

With Trump in power we can easily buy s500/550 and su-57 production line.
The only thing we will have to give to the Americans is an order of
80 F-35A's and maybe the mmrca to the f-15EX.
Also rafale and su-57 fill entirely different roles. Rafales don't possess any missile with the capabilities or range of r-37m. Neither we can modify the rafale as much as the su-57 or su-30. The fact is we need 100's of bomb trucks that can carry long range missiles. Also we need to upgrade our aewcs to do datalink targetting. Astra mk2,astra mk3 and gandiv need to be brought online within this year.

that IAF should have first sanitized the airspace and carried out some SEAD operations before hitting the actual targets and in press debrief, they could have said that we shoot them in self-defence because they tried to shoot our planes while we do the operations and actively protecting the terrorists(which they did).

The entire issue is our RoE forced the IAF to avoid any SEAD/DEAD mission. The IAF's mission that day was to target jihadi sites and avoid hitting any military targets or assets to avoid escalation.
What we got was ceasefire violations and drone attacks.

 

[Lolwa]

MMRCA need to be F 35 period. We need some fifth generation fighter jet as Chong will be selling some of their tin cans to Chinese soon.

F-35 and mmrca for different roles and are complementary aircrafts.

 

[Jersey27]

With Trump in power we can easily buy s500/550 and su-57 production line.
The only thing we will have to give to the Americans is an order of
80 F-35A's and maybe the mmrca to the f-15EX.

If we go down that route, IAF will return to being the zoo of the 90s with 7 different fighters in its arsenal - MKI, Rafale, Tejas Mk1/2, Su-57, F-35, F-15EX and AMCA - even after Jaguar, Mirage and MiG-29 are retired. Ideally we should keep that number down to 4 fighter types in the long run.

 

[Lolwa]

If we go down that route, IAF will return to being the zoo of the 90s with 7 different fighters in its arsenal - MKI, Rafale, Tejas Mk1/2, Su-57, F-35, F-15EX and AMCA - even after Jaguar, Mirage and MiG-29 are retired. Ideally we should keep that number down to 4 fighter types in the long run.

The rafale replaces the mirage and jaguar
The tejas mk1 replaces the mig 23/mig 27 and mig 21
The tejas mk2 replaces the mirage and mig 29.
The f-15EX/typhoon replaces the mig29
The su-30 is upgraded and numbers are increased.
The su-57 becomes the future replacement of the su-30
The f-35 is an extra addition and bring new ability
The AMCA replaces the mig 29 and mirage.