MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

[_Anonymous_]

The Mk1 is a failure, to the point where it's decent but very, very late. The Mk1A will be what the Mk1 should have been. And we will see 123 of these two variants in IAF colours. There is an option to increase the Mk1A by 60 more. As for the Mk2, the IAF is interested in 201, and the navy in 45.

That's 429 jets in all.

Don't mean to piss on your parade. Much as we'd like your statement to come true, as of now the FOC is nowhere in sight, inspite of innumerable delays. Manufacturing of the Mk-1 is progressing at snails pace. We'd be lucky if we get the SP-12 by this year end. That still leaves another 28 to be delivered before 2019.

Not sure if the IAF has released their AFSQR for the Mk-1a without which the design for it can't be frozen. What're the timelines we're looking at w.r.t the induction of the 80 odd Mk1a?

Further, and I'm stretching this a bit too far... What if we get the FOC for the Mk-2 in 2028 or even 2030 , which given the track record of the ADA is eminently possible ? When will we be inducting the full complement of the 200 Mk-2? By 2045?

What happens to the AMCA then? Will we be inducting it by 2050 - 55 , when other air forces will be inducting their 7 th gen FA?

 

[randomradio]

Don't mean to piss on your parade. Much as we'd like your statement to come true, as of now the FOC is nowhere in sight, inspite of innumerable delays. Manufacturing of the Mk-1 is progressing at snails pace. We'd be lucky if we get the SP-12 by this year end. That still leaves another 28 to be delivered before 2019.

The production of Mk1 is going okay. The production of the following 20 will happen after FOC, so not by 2019. The new FOC target is on track though.

Not sure if the IAF has released their AFSQR for the Mk-1a without which the design for it can't be frozen. What're the timelines we're looking at w.r.t the induction of the 80 odd Mk1a?

There is no new ASR for Mk1A. It's just the same as Mk1, but with an AESA radar.

Further, and I'm stretching this a bit too far... What if we get the FOC for the Mk-2 in 2028 or even 2030 , which given the track record of the ADA is eminently possible ? When will we be inducting the full complement of the 200 Mk-2? By 2045?

The current date for IOC is 2025. Obviously, this date will get pushed. There's no way they will fly it by 2022 and get the IOC by 2025. That's why there is room for 3 more squadrons of Mk1A. The delay will take care of our requirements for now. I'm hoping for an IOC by 2027, with first squadron delivery by 2030. At 24 per year, we will take 10+ years, but we may see one more production line.

What happens to the AMCA then? Will we be inducting it by 2050 - 55 , when other air forces will be inducting their 7 th gen FA?

Let's see where this goes.

The problem with LCA was the development of the flight control system. Another problem was the LCA's design was not compatible for flight testing. Now that we have done it once, we won't make the same mistakes with AMCA.

 

[zinswinsin]

Why is F-35 page deleted? Or am I being dumb.

Belgium reportedly picks F-35 for future fighter jet

 

[Sancho]

He's the one rooting for an enhanced LCA / MCA when all past records of the ADA indicates and logic dictates that if ever an MCA materializes it'd be so in name only .

Well anybody is free to have "random" thoughts, but please move LCA discussion to the appropriate thread.

 

[Tsunami]

That's because I casted my vote in favor of Rafale too

I made it above 77 just now

 

[Sancho]

SASMOS DELIVERS 1000TH F/A-18 ELECTRICAL PANEL ASSEMBLY TO BOEING

...Our partnership with SASMOS and this delivery demonstrates yet again, that Indian suppliers are becoming an integral part of Boeing's global supply chain," said Pratyush Kumar, President, Boeing India. "Through suppliers like SASMOS, Boeing has already created a significant supplier footprint in India that can successfully execute the proposed F/A-18 Super Hornet Make in India program...

Read more here:
http://www.sps-aviation.com/news/?i...th-F/A-18-electrical-panel-assembly-to-Boeing

 

[R!cK]

MMRCA 3.0 Contender

Source: Tom Antonov (@Tom_Antonov) on Twitter

 

[Sancho]

MMRCA 3.0 Contender

With the pace of our procurements and developments who knows.
But it already shows how far behind we are, dreaming about 5th gen AMCA, when the world is already moving to 6th gen. But don't worry, DRDO surely will declare AMCA soon to be 6th gen as well.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

With the pace of our procurements and developments who knows.
But it already shows how far behind we are, dreaming about 5th gen AMCA, when the world is already moving to 6th gen. But don't worry, DRDO surely will declare AMCA soon to be 6th gen as well.

We have never said that this aircraft will be of the 6th generation, moreover the concept of generation is purely marketing, and it is American marketing.

 

[Bon Plan]

The usual Bon Plan denial

just see :

3 x 2000L tanks,
6 x 340kg bombs (AASM Hammer)
4 AAM (and 2 points free for 2 others).

So where is the usual denial?

 

[Sancho]

So where is the usual denial?

In ignoring the difference between maximum load and standard operational load!

A Rafale can carry 3 x Scalp, 2000lb bombs or Exocet, but operational standard are only 1 or 2.
Same goes for 500lb bombs, where 6 are the max configuration, while operational standard are only 4.
For AAMs in CAP missions, the maximum load is 4 x Meteor + 4 MICA, but since French forces don't require the external MICA station, the standard load is only 4 x Meteor + 2 × MICA IR.

That's why a Gripen E can carry, what Rafale can in standard configs too, while the maximum load advantage is just 50%.

Fuel is dependent on the mission requirements, like distance to the target, or the availability of tankers. Therefore an advantage mainly in deep strike missions only, while all other missions usually use 2 fuel tanks too.

It might not offer the same flight performance of EF or Rafale, but Saab did a smart re-design that improved the load capability by far and made it much more comparable.
Add the much improved sensors, EW and weapons and you have very good cost / capability ratio.

 

[Sancho]

We have never said that this aircraft will be of the 6th generation, moreover the concept of generation is purely marketing, and it is American marketing.

Just as Omnirole, so Dassault certainly wI'll use some terms to distinguish the fighter from the F35 too. And no matter what others claim, DRDO will claim to be able to develop it too.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

With the pace of our procurements and developments who knows.
But it already shows how far behind we are, dreaming about 5th gen AMCA, when the world is already moving to 6th gen. But don't worry, DRDO surely will declare AMCA soon to be 6th gen as well.

At least the definition of omnirole is precise and does not change with the aircraft: it is the ability to be swing role during the mission, without being forced to return to its base.
While the 5th generation definition of the F-22 includes the extreme manoeuvrability and super cruising that are absent from this definition for the F-35.

 

[Bon Plan]

In ignoring the difference between maximum load and standard operational load!

A Rafale can carry 3 x Scalp, 2000lb bombs or Exocet, but operational standard are only 1 or 2.
.

Sure ! as usual you are right ....

 

[Sancho]

At least the definition of omnirole is precise and does not change with the aircraft: it is the ability to be swing role during the mission, without being forced to return to its base.
While the 5th generation definition of the F-22 includes the extreme manoeuvrability and super cruising that are absent from this definition for the F-35.

Well, that's actually termed as swing role capability itself, Dassault only uses omnirole to describe, that this was intended from design stage. So just another form of marketing.

LM now markets the F16 B70, with an AESA that has a lot of commonality to the F35 AESA. That also only tries to make the B70 AESA sound more special than it is.

But I agree to the 5th gen issue, which however is based on the long time difference between F117, F22 and now F35, Su 57 and Co. The commonality remains stealth.

 

[Sancho]

Sure ! as usual you are right ....

You are welcome, but I know it won't change anything, since you always remain in denial when it comes to Rafale.

 

[Ashwin]

Why is F-35 page deleted? Or am I being dumb.

Belgium reportedly picks F-35 for future fighter jet

Everything non-indian moved.

Military Aviation

 

[Bon Plan]

You are welcome, but I know it won't change anything, since you always remain in denial when it comes to Rafale.

I gave you proofs. You only gave bla bla.

 

[Sancho]

I gave you proofs. You only gave bla bla.

Nope, you did what every fan boy does, post pictures out of the lack of proper arguments and pretend to have a point. But apart from the fact, that even your pics show 2 Scalp configs as I said, a proof is something like this =>

May12,2017|ByEmmanuel Huberdeau
Discovery of the mixed hunting detachment of Chammal
A Rafale armed with four AASM is preparing to leave on mission from the BAP of Jordan. © Air Force
Article published on 5 May 2017 in the Air & Cosmos Magazine. Find this week an article on the A400M in the Defense section of Air & Cosmos.

...The arming of the devices is adapted to these requirements. Patrols take off with a mixed configuration. One Rafale is equipped with four laser-guided GBU-12 bombs, while the other carries GPS-guided AASMs. Again, the bodies of bombs are variegated. Two AASMs are configured with a smaller military load to limit their effects (BLU-126 "low collateral dam-mages bomb"). This mixing offers several options for the crews, who can thus choose the type of guidance and the military load to optimize the effects of their strikes and avoid the collateral damage. The rockets of the armaments can also be adjusted to, for example, trigger the explosion of the bomb once it has penetrated the ground and, again, limit its effects...

Découverte du détachement de chasse mixte de Chammal - Air&Cosmos

 

[Bon Plan]

Nope, you did what every fan boy does, post pictures out of the lack of proper arguments and pretend to have a point. But apart from the fact, that even your pics show 2 Scalp configs as I said, a proof is something like this =>



Découverte du détachement de chasse mixte de Chammal - Air&Cosmos

1) I don't create these pics. And if you want dome more just ask ! it's so easy to find.
2) When you only need 2 tanks, why using a third ?