MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 44 16.4%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 205 76.5%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 11 4.1%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 2 0.7%

  • Total voters
    268
  • Poll closed .
For nations like China and India, the utility of fixed runways and airbases is highly questionable. Due to the extreme population density and the ubiquity of smartphones, there is virtually no security or secrecy to speak of. In wartime, aircraft must be dispersed to primitive farmlands or rotated across highway strips.
This sounds good and all in paper but in real world, we need such airbases for fuel and weapons storage, maintenance facilities, spare parts, command and control, air defence etc. Except for short skirmishes, you won't be running a sustained air campaigns from random farm fields.
Consequently, the capability for Short Take-Off and Landing (STOL) on unpaved runways is an absolute necessity.
It is certainly good to have but not an absolute necessity, else the F22, F35A, Rafale, Typhoon, J20 etc would be having it. But I agree with you to a certain extend, a good rule we can follow to survive missile attacks is not being where the enemy expects us to be even though it is becoming increasingly difficult with advancement in surveillance technology which we may or may not be able to neutralise in case of war, Sweden is famous for this concept. During the Cold War, Swedish fighters such as the Saab 37 Viggen and later the Saab JAS 39 Gripen were designed to operate from dispersed road bases because Sweden assumed its main airfields would be attacked.

We can employ similar methods along with building hardened shelters, air defence systems, decoys, fast runway repair methods, mobile logistics etc
 
This sounds good and all in paper but in real world, we need such airbases for fuel and weapons storage, maintenance facilities, spare parts, command and control, air defence etc. Except for short skirmishes, you won't be running a sustained air campaigns from random farm fields.

It is certainly good to have but not an absolute necessity, else the F22, F35A, Rafale, Typhoon, J20 etc would be having it. But I agree with you to a certain extend, a good rule we can follow to survive missile attacks is not being where the enemy expects us to be even though it is becoming increasingly difficult with advancement in surveillance technology which we may or may not be able to neutralise in case of war, Sweden is famous for this concept. During the Cold War, Swedish fighters such as the Saab 37 Viggen and later the Saab JAS 39 Gripen were designed to operate from dispersed road bases because Sweden assumed its main airfields would be attacked.

We can employ similar methods along with building hardened shelters, air defence systems, decoys, fast runway repair methods, mobile logistics etc

Su-57 is designed for both.

Using dispersed airfields is called ACE, Agile Combat Employment, where the main base and the airfields follow a hub and spoke model. Transports, helicopters, and trucks can carry the required crew and equipment.

Su-57 can also land and take off in less than 500 m of unpaved runway due to Russia's undeveloped landmass. But J-20 will operate in extremely well-developed environments.

US and India are heavily dependent on ACE while PLAAF is planning to implement it soon.

 
J36 is quite good in that regard, it can takeoff from the heart of china and can go long in range with usable load

Presion ammunition became mainstream so runway are in danger,

but long range precision ammunition are not that cheap (except shahid type drones which can be shot down easily if enough gun based, drone based interceptors and then lasers and small rocket based like india's bhargavastra)

And runways are easier to reapir, so constantly using millions of dollar missiles, many of whome will be shot down is very costly,

one has to use atleast 10 everday or two, milti million dollar missiles to make a defeneded runway to a remain disable

Very costly, and then 2 more problems
1) enough width tracks can also be used as runways, though sortie rate will be limited
2) ramped like in indian/soviat carriers , can easily support a heavy thrust aircraft
The biggest threat of the j-36 is it's ability to fire pl-17 from its iwb.
Pl-17 effectiveness remains questionable beyond 200 km but it still makes it a threat. Also it's larger bay can carry their cruise missile arsenal.
It's a good design all the third engine positioning seems quite flawed for some reason.
 
Brand-new Rafale F4 undergoing trials at the DGA...

The transmitters are mounted on a wall, but there is cladding on all sides (and removable cladding can be placed on the floor).

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The Rafale can be tilted by 15° in all axes, and different wavelengths are tested, from 140 MHz to 40 GHz, by rotating the aircraft through 360° (the suspension cables are made of fabric, not metal).

This is obviously used to qualify the RCS of the aircraft itself (in unarmed and armed configurations), but it also allows real-world measurements to be correlated with computer simulations, in order to validate the accuracy of the latter.

For this campaign, there was one measurement in armed configuration (I do not have the details of the configuration), and one in unarmed configuration.
To test all the other reinforced configurations, we use extrapolation: we measure the SER of the reinforcements and pylons in a smaller test rig, and then numerically combine all this data to determine the SER from all angles, in every possible and imaginable configuration.

Some say that we are also testing the effectiveness of SPECTRA

We can see a Rafale suspended in an anechoic chamber, likely for highly detailed electromagnetic measurements: radar signature, effects of the pylons, weapon load configurations, validation of numerical models, and also the qualification of certain SPECTRA behaviours.

The key point is that this type of test debunks the simplistic notion that the Rafale is merely a ‘non-stealth’ aircraft to which a good jammer has been added. The reality is much more subtle: Dassault and the DGA are measuring the aircraft’s actual signature under controlled conditions, across a very broad spectrum, and then correlating these measurements with numerical models. This then makes it possible to predict the SER according to angles, frequencies, external loads, pylons, fuel tanks, missiles and operational configurations.

Testing from 140 MHz to 40 GHz is particularly interesting. This covers everything from low-frequency detection bands to the higher bands used for fire control or radar imaging. In other words, the focus is not merely on the “marketing” RCS in the X-band at the front, but on how the aircraft behaves electromagnetically across the entire real-world radar environment.

And if SPECTRA is being tested in this context, it would make sense. A chamber of this type allows us to measure not only the passive echo, but also how an on-board system might respond to controlled emissions: reception, characterisation, transmission of countermeasures, jamming, active cancellation or related techniques. Obviously, the details remain classified, but the test bench is perfectly suited to this type of validation.

When a Rafale takes off with its payload, its SER depends on the configuration: missiles, fuel tanks, pylons, air-to-ground weapons, and any asymmetric charges. But as soon as a payload is fired or dropped, the electromagnetic geometry changes. A missile launched, a fuel tank dropped, a bomb fired, an empty pylon – all of these alter the radar echo and the radiation patterns.

If SPECTRA knows the initial configuration and receives information from the weapons system — shot fired, station cleared, missile launched, munition dropped — it can logically adapt its parameters: signature libraries, jamming tactics, transmission modes, threat management, vulnerability assessment based on angle and frequency. This transforms electronic warfare into a living system, linked to the aircraft’s actual status.

And this underscores the value of tests in an anechoic chamber. We are not simply measuring the “bare Rafale”. We are building a database of electromagnetic behaviour: the unarmed aircraft, the armed aircraft, pylons, weaponry, configurations, and intermediate states. The system can then utilise this data during operations.

SPECTRA does not protect an abstract Rafale; it protects the Rafale as it is at that moment, with its actual configuration and its firing history.