Based on the developing geo-political equations, I think partnership with France is not a bad option as long as India's ambition and capabilities are matching. The major portion of upcoming Indigenous fighters , be it Mk1A, Mk2, AMCA Mk1 , are based on major US components. On the other hand India has a detailed experience with Russian systems. That's why I think this decision is taken as per my assumptions.If the recent Turkish EF2000 deal is any indication, we would've had to pay a premium for our 114 Rafales anyway as the price for getting 120kN TF tech from France.
What remains to be seen is the cost of the engine co-development contract which was earlier pegged at around $8b.
If a variant of M88 does replace F404/F414 on LCA Mk1/2, then the finak bill could be much higher than expected though.
All said and done, it's pay day for the French defence industry.
I agree. Geopolitically France is the safest option for us, next only to Russia. End user restrictions will also likely be minimal (esp w/regard to potential adaptation for the N delivery role). But will our $35b-$40b investment give us long-term ROI in terms of ToT for core avionics, lru's, ew, etc? Until recently, we were scrounging around for used Jag and M2000 airframes for cannibalization.Based on the developing geo-political equations, I think partnership with France is not a bad option as long as India's ambition and capabilities are matching. The major portion of upcoming Indigenous fighters , be it Mk1A, Mk2, AMCA Mk1 , are based on major US components. On the other hand India has a detailed experience with Russian systems. That's why I think this decision is taken as per my assumptions.
I think they want to all all private sector for this deal apart from the engine which simply no private sector company has experience in today(hopefully godrej or someone else changes this in the future). Electronics is not as hard as engine so ig they're taking a small risk there.Its weird that they are choosing Mahindra for electronics & avionics. It should be BEL as they already have partnership with them for RBE2/SPECTRA.
Its weird that they are choosing Mahindra for electronics & avionics. It should be BEL as they already have partnership with them for RBE2/SPECTRA.
A Google Search
Mahindra in Defence Electronics ; shows many interesting results including a collaboration with BEL
This mega project will have strict timelines so it is better to keep away PSUs
HAL will be working with Safran for engines
And BEL has a big order book of 75 Thousand Crores
Mahindra for electronics & avionics
Likely indicates licensed assembly of M88-2 engines that will be powering these Rafales to be built in India.Even more absurd is Safran partnering HAL (not GTRE) for engines.
GTRE is a R&D lab of DRDO. They don't and can't produce engines. Its not their job. This partnership is to produce parts in India.Even more absurd is Safran partnering HAL (not GTRE) for engines.
F404 price is stable? F404 deliveries are on schedule?If the recent Turkish EF2000 deal is any indication, we would've had to pay a premium for our 114 Rafales anyway as the price for getting 120kN TF tech from France.
What remains to be seen is the cost of the engine co-development contract which was earlier pegged at around $8b.
If a variant of M88 does replace F404/F414 on LCA Mk1/2, then the finak bill could be much higher than expected though.
All said and done, it's pay day for the French defence industry.
Our AF likes French Bourbon a little too much for that. Vodka is not the flavor of the season it seems.F404 price is stable? F404 deliveries are on schedule?
You are not obliged to purchase french goodies.... Feel free to ask Putin for some brillant Su-57....
Mmm! The Rafale is addictive.Our AF likes French Bourbon a little too much for that. Vodka is not the flavor of the season it seems.
Seems every 10 years new version will be inducted by India, F3R in 2015, F4 in 2025, probably F5 in 2035Rafale F5 R&D phase is lauched.
La DGA commande les premiers travaux en amont du prochain lancement en réalisation du standard F5 du Rafale, prévu fin 2026 | Mer et Marine
Communiqué de la Direction Générale de l'Armement (DGA), 09/09/26 :
Statement from the French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA), 09/09/26
The French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA) awarded several contracts this summer in anticipation of the launch of the Rafale F5 standard development phase.
These contracts, awarded to Dassault Aviation, MBDA, Safran, and Thales, cover the development of several pieces of equipment and help secure the next Rafale standard.
Firmly committed to collaborative combat operations and first-entry capability, the F5 standard represents a major mid-life upgrade for the Rafale, essential to preparing the aircraft to meet the challenges of the coming decade and beyond. This new standard is expected to be qualified by 2033, before entering service with the French Air and Space Force and subsequently with the French Navy.
Under the DGA's program management, the Rafale is continuously modernized through successive standards to maintain its technological and operational superiority, adapting it to evolving military requirements and emerging threats while preserving its export attractiveness.
The Rafale F5 mid-life upgrade will ensure the renewal of the airborne nuclear deterrence component through the integration of the fourth-generation nuclear air-to-surface missile (ASN4G), as well as enhanced first-entry capability in hostile operational environments.
The F5 standard incorporates the improvements required to address evolving operational threats and rapidly embrace collaborative combat concepts. It will improve responsiveness in adapting to operational contexts through a more open mission system architecture, providing greater autonomy to armed forces. To secure the development of this critical standard for the armed forces, the DGA has awarded contracts covering the development of several systems that will subsequently be integrated by Dassault Aviation into the Rafale F5 aircraft:
- The ultra-low-drift Hemispherical Resonator Gyroscope (HRG) Inertial Navigation System, under a contract awarded to Dassault Aviation.
- The new Inter-Vehicle Data Link (IVDL) system, under a contract awarded to Thales. This communication system is the result of many years of upstream studies funded by the DGA. The connectivity of the Rafale F5 will be expanded through a new high-bandwidth, low-observable, and jam-resistant waveform. The IVDL will enable the Rafale to penetrate hostile environments where electronic jamming is widespread while maintaining optimal data exchange and communication between aircraft.
- The RBE2-XG (eXtended Generation) two-axis electronically scanned radar, under a contract awarded to Thales. The Rafale F5 standard will incorporate a major technological breakthrough through the deployment of this new radar. This system represents a significant evolution of the RBE2 AESA radar currently in service, leveraging a decade of operational feedback from French armed forces. The radar will benefit from a substantial increase in power, leading to greater detection range, as well as enhanced capability to identify targets with an extremely low Radar Cross Section (RCS). Its computing capacity will also be significantly increased to support greater integration of artificial intelligence.
Furthermore, the RBE2-XG will be designed for collaborative combat operations, with sensors capable of working together autonomously without pilot intervention. While maintaining the same footprint as the current RBE2 radar, the RBE2-XG will offer increased resilience, including against cyber threats, and will meet operational requirements through 2035 and beyond.- The SPECTRA F5 self-protection suite, under contracts awarded to Thales and MBDA France. The aircraft's self-protection system will be upgraded and enhanced to address evolving threats. Detection and jamming capabilities will be significantly improved, notably through full digitalization, enabling a complete modernization of the electronic warfare core to cope with the densification and expansion of the electromagnetic spectrum, as well as the increasing complexity of threat waveforms expected by 2035.
- The M88 T-REX engine (preliminary design phase), under a contract awarded to Safran Aircraft Engines. The current M88-2 engine will evolve into the M88 T-REX, a major upgrade aimed at increasing maximum thrust by 20%, from 7.5 to 9 metric tons. This development builds on preliminary studies initiated by the DGA in cooperation with Safran Aircraft Engines and ONERA.
From a technical standpoint, the M88 T-REX will retain the modular architecture, structure, and operational advantages of the M88-2, including its low fuel consumption, while incorporating modifications to several modules. This modularity greatly facilitates maintenance by allowing rapid replacement of components without dismantling the entire engine, thereby reducing aircraft downtime and improving operational availability.
Just no news so far about the UCAV.
Seems every 10 years new version will be inducted by India, F3R in 2015, F4 in 2025, probably F5 in 2035
F3R was qualified in october 2018. No F4 have been delivered to india so far (maybe the M variant to come)Seems every 10 years new version will be inducted by India, F3R in 2015, F4 in 2025, probably F5 in 2035
Yes, RBE2 XG and SPECTRA F5 will rely on GaN. It is said that actual Spectra antennas are GaN already.... ???I read that F5 will have GAN based Radar and EW Suite
So this means that Most of our F 4 s will have to be upgraded within 5 years of induction
Also by 2035 , SU 30
and Tejas MK 2 , Both will have
GAN AESA Radars