Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?

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Bon Plan said:
I'm a strong Rafale supporter, but I don't think we can say that !
The AM 39 exocet has only a range of 70km // Harpoon more than 120Km and another long range missile to come.
No dedicated anti radar missile on Rafale.

AASM Hammer is a nice weapon but not ordered so far by India.
Meteor... of course !

The weaponery of SH18 is far more deeper...
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Meteor is better than the Aim-120D and MICA IR is better than Aim-9X. Those are the primary weapons we are concerned with.

Everything else will be common because we want to introduce Indian weapons. Brahmos-M, Nirbhay, DRDO ARM, AAW etc. They can be used on both Rafale and SH.
 
AbRaj said:
If there is a overhaul depot as DRAL is planning, it can definitely be shared among various forces and so is possible assembly lines. Also supply chain upto various extent is shaired so the cost will be lesser.Weapons and others common parts in emergency too can be shared.
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That will come into play with respect to costs in the MRCBF. DRAL's infrastructure that's already present will be part of the bid amount. So even after counting all of that, if Boeing's bid is cheaper, then SH will win.

Only the bid amount matters, everything else is irrelevant. Saying something "will be cheaper" because of so and so is simply an assumption. Tenders don't assume anything.

Sharing weapons during emergencies is also irrelevant. No one can define such emergencies. And no one prepares for such unique emergencies. Both IAF and IN will buy adequate weapons for their own stockpiles.

USA is very prone to delay and block arms sales to customers in order to make them submit to their demands.
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That only works against weaker countries, not against countries like India. They will have to comply with contract obligations.
 
vstol Jockey said:
Air shows are done with minimum required fuel and lowest possible weight. Deck launch calculations are done for max fuel and highest possible load. and that is where Rafale-M will lose out. you need to take into account Indian conditions which are hot compared to europe.
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There is a lot of margin at take off with Rafale. If Rafale is not qualified for Take off from Vikramaditya then Mig 29 too is not qualified.
 
randomradio said:
That will come into play with respect to costs in the MRCBF. DRAL's infrastructure that's already present will be part of the bid amount. So even after counting all of that, if Boeing's bid is cheaper, then SH will win.

Only the bid amount matters, everything else is irrelevant. Saying something "will be cheaper" because of so and so is simply an assumption. Tenders don't assume anything.

Sharing weapons during emergencies is also irrelevant. No one can define such emergencies. And no one prepares for such unique emergencies. Both IAF and IN will buy adequate weapons for their own stockpiles.



That only works against weaker countries, not against countries like India. They will have to comply with contract obligations.
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Most of us here can only guess due to lack of inside information. A well-informed guess or estimate based on commen sense ,experience or theoretical knowledge is anyway far better than believing blindly.

Emergency like Kargil war. Air force was caught pants down with almost no preparation to defend an invasion by our traditional foe.
I can only imagine what we had to do to get essential things in the middle of war.

And not only poor countries but comparatively better countries like South Korea ,Japan,Australia too. They are habituated to do arm twisting ,like you don't need this and that etc .
 
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In the a/m comparison, the best aircraft has been rated 5 points and the other aircraft based on the difference in the ability have been rated from 5 to zero points. This comparison is based on the following charts,
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vstol Jockey said:
IAF will order more LCa MK1As and IN will most likely go for F-18SH.
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SH can't take off from IAC-1. It needs catapult. 200m runway of IAC-1 Vikrant is not enough. IAC_-1 has to be a short take off plane. IAC-2 is 2025 and it is imprudent to place an order now only to get the planes by 2021-22 and keep them in storage.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
There is a lot of margin at take off with Rafale. If Rafale is not qualified for Take off from Vikramaditya then Mig 29 too is not qualified.
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
Rafale M can take off even from Vikramaditya easily at full load.
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Rafale M can't take off in 200m runway. Mig29k can take off. MiG29k has 2 engines of higher thrust than Rafale and has aerodynamics suited specially for short take off. Mig29 is an inferior plane compared to rafale in most counts but take off distance is the strong point.

If you disagree, can you give me a source of Rafale taking off from 200m runway without any catapult assistance?
 
Kshithij Sharma said:
Rafale M can't take off in 200m runway. Mig29k can take off. MiG29k has 2 engines of higher thrust than Rafale and has aerodynamics suited specially for short take off. Mig29 is an inferior plane compared to rafale in most counts but take off distance is the strong point.

If you disagree, can you give me a source of Rafale taking off from 200m runway without any catapult assistance?
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The ski jump decrease the runway length you need to take off. Dassault officially announced that the Rafale could take off from a STOBAR aircraft carrier.
Trappier said that the joint venture would consider producing the Rafale in India if more aircraft were ordered. He said that the company would be responding to the request for information (RFI) from India for 57 multirole naval fighters that can be adapted to the country’s current short-takeoff but arrested recovery (STOBAR) aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya and for the future aircraft carriers that will employ catapults for takeoff.
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Dassault Boss Describes Rafale Sales Prospects
 
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LOL, trappier has been saying this a few months after 36 planes was signed. He is very hopeful in this matter.
IF he had said that during UPA rule that might have been different because UPA was dealing as if its Sellers market and hence they had no options, rather they were trying to close all gates so that they could maximise ther cuts Please dont say that Dassault never pays kickbacks as it does.

Now for the indian requirement there are many suitors,. there are Russians with their MiG-29K which the pilots know how to fly and its going on well. It does have limitation on range and also load. But it is being produced and being used.

Super Hornet is being used by USN and also Australian air force and both find it excellent plane. It has an excellent avionics pack. Also F/A-18 is only plane which makes one version only so, the plane can both operate from air strip or from aircraft carrier just by adding tail hook. they dont produce a different version.. Also it has folding wings that Indian navy wants and India is trying to get closer to USA

Rafale is a capable plane but there are big questions if it can fit on the carrier or not Though Indian navy is inclined towards Rafale, Supe hornet will bring one commonality.. Engines. which are ordered for Tejas



Picdelamirand-oil said:
Dassault officially announced that the Rafale could take off from a STOBAR aircraft carrier.

Dassault Boss Describes Rafale Sales Prospects
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smestarz said:
LOL, trappier has been saying this a few months after 36 planes was signed. He is very hopeful in this matter.
IF he had said that during UPA rule that might have been different because UPA was dealing as if its Sellers market and hence they had no options, rather they were trying to close all gates so that they could maximise ther cuts Please dont say that Dassault never pays kickbacks as it does.

Now for the indian requirement there are many suitors,. there are Russians with their MiG-29K which the pilots know how to fly and its going on well. It does have limitation on range and also load. But it is being produced and being used.

Super Hornet is being used by USN and also Australian air force and both find it excellent plane. It has an excellent avionics pack. Also F/A-18 is only plane which makes one version only so, the plane can both operate from air strip or from aircraft carrier just by adding tail hook. they dont produce a different version.. Also it has folding wings that Indian navy wants and India is trying to get closer to USA

Rafale is a capable plane but there are big questions if it can fit on the carrier or not Though Indian navy is inclined towards Rafale, Supe hornet will bring one commonality.. Engines. which are ordered for Tejas
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:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
The ski jump decrease the runway length you need to take off. Dassault officially announced that the Rafale could take off from a STOBAR aircraft carrier.

Dassault Boss Describes Rafale Sales Prospects
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Those statements were with respect to undercarriage design and not for the effective load out that could be carried by Rafale-M from STOBAR carriers. Just wait for DA to be hit by the most stupid requirements of IN. I am fighting with IN and showing them that their way of calculation for STOBAR launch parameters is flawed especially when it comes to twin engined aircraft.
 
smestarz said:
Also F/A-18 is only plane which makes one version only so, the plane can both operate from air strip or from aircraft carrier just by adding tail hook. they dont produce a different version.
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Just one version... so why is it so heavier ?
Take a rafale M, replace the front high G undercarriage by the air variant model, do the same for the hook and you have a 'C' model with an integrated ladder !
 
Himanshu said:
What happened to LCA Navy Mk2 ?
= During February last year the media dropped a bomb by falsely reporting that Tejas’s Navy version has been rejected. First thing is Naval variant will have it's down name not Tejas. And second thing is that Navy never said they would induct NLCA mk1, they knew since the beginning that NLCA mk1 won't be able to take off with full combat load. And now popular Defence website Livefist reported that even Naval LCA mk2 has been delinked from the flat top carrier IAC-2 INS Vishal. It would go up with Navalised AMCA only. But still Naval LCA mk2 isn't dead. HAL would continue with it and Naval LCA would serve on INS Vikrant. While N-LCA mk1 would serve as a carrier testbed for validating a proof of concept of an indigenous naval fighter
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I am sorry, but what? No Mk2 is going to fly from Vikrant. Vikrant will be ready by 2018 december or May 2019. And it needs fighters. There is a reason why FA 18 and Rafale are undergoing modifications for Sky Jump carriers. Rafale is working on foldable wings and it says theoritically it has succeeded. FA 18 with AESA seems good too. But Navy wants to go with the Rafale. It means it will operate Mig 29k initially with 15 fighters, after which they will have Rafale or FA 18 as Vikrant can carry upto 30 aircrafts (which can be increased if the helicopters spaces are decreased). 30 ac's and remaining shore based for maintainence and other duties. naval tejas is nowhere in the picture
 
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