Which do you think are better than the Russian's then?
X-posting from India-Russia realtions thread.
Just for reference. I would edit a detailed reply.
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Which do you think are better than the Russian's then?
Sure. You can just quote me again in the nuclear thread.
Nuclear Energy in India : Updates
Would really like to know how all the available reactors match up.
X-posting from India-Russia realtions thread.
Just for reference. I would edit a detailed reply.
Inspite of these, the operational record of KKNPP 1 is not one to go to town about. And worst is the Russian insistence that the frequent trips are due to Indian Operator incompetence, after they being trained in Russia (Novovoronezh is where I remember, but it just is a recollection from my memory, may be wildly off the mark). Now consider the operational record of Kalpakkam reactors. The MAPS 1 unit was commissioned under great stress as Canadians left us in the dark after the '74 tests and its been basically a systematic and scientific jugaad. Still it compares much better than KKNPP.
I don't get what you mean here. The reactors are operating at well over 95% capacity factor.
And even 100%.
Kudankulam nuclear power plant generates full 2,000 MW capacity for the first time - Firstpost
So the starting trouble, whatever it actually was, with KKNPP-1 was fixed a long time ago. And it's difficult to go by media reports about reactors in India is because the govt likes to keep things quiet and there are a lot of vested interests writing whatever they want.
As for AP1000, it is a very safe reactor, but cost overruns have been ridiculously high to the point where they are not even telling the actual cost of the reactor anymore. They are potentially talking about mroe than $8B for each.
As for EPR, the French themselves agree that their reactor is not up to the mark for the global market.
French regulator to EDF: don't assume new reactor model is accident-proof - Reuters
https://www.nirs.org/wp-content/uploads/reactorwatch/newreactors/eprfukushima_summary.pdf
The EPR cannot handle a Fukushima type situation at all. That's why they are going around developing the EPR-2.
So, as of right now, the EPR-1 is not safe, AP1000 is too expensive, whereas the VVER-1000 is safe, cheaper and works.
Due to a combination of generous credit terms and diplomatic compulsion, we may end up building 6 reactors each of the EPR (hopefully EPR-2) and AP1000, but I don't see a significant future beyond that. The current plan is to build 2 of each by 2031. Otoh, the VVER-1200, VVER-TOI and the more advanced SCWR called VVER-1700 could end up defining our future reactor inventory, apart from our own designs of course.
From 2030 onwards, we will need at least 10-15GW every year.
Sir, I have nothing to say, if you account those as just starting trouble/teething trouble.
IIRC the problems were :-
a)Multiple tripping of reactor by core safety systems and emergency protection systems
b)Inability to operate at designated power ( specified during startup regime ) for a specified time, happening multiple times, and reactor again tripping by emergency systems
As I said even MAPS 1 didnot face these much issues during startup. Again, if you believe the regimes of operation during startup is trivial, I am at a loss of words as the various dynamics of reactor comes into play and create a complex operation condition during certain dP/dt regimes and startup is pretty important there. If you agree with me there, then I would like to know if you would have rejected these deficiencies as just teething issues, when you read the same in conjuction with startup of Unit 1 of Leningrad NPP & Ingalina Unit 1 in 1970s. Suffice to say, the last time Russians/Soviets decided to address these shortfalls in design, the world did sit up and took notice.
Again, I urge you to look at the date line of the article you quoted, and it reads IANS Dec 05, 2017 22:38:34 IST . The date of criticality of Unit 2 is 10 July 2016 . There lies my proof. And Im not quoting sme hearsay from Indian media, who know nothing about Nuclear Reactor except that it is a giant kettle and the spelling "RADIOACTIVE". I used to follow the ops of the said reactor almost daily from its grid synchronisation at the Load Despatch data put out in their website.
Had the secondary power supply in case of total power blackout of Fukushima Dai-ichi had been at a higher ground, they too would have rode the waves out. There isn't any certain pre-ordained method though the International community became pretty stringent after March 2011.
First of all I cant fathom Indian obsession with LWRs. For a economy with capabilities like India and the Uranium reserves, and its constraints that we face, it was not for nothing, we embarked upon 3 tier programme and PHWR. The PHWR and the requisite industry complexity is manageable within Indian context. Now having mastered that path, we, are as usual going for those shiny new LWRs.. Typically Indian in strategic foresight.
Right now Supercritical reactor with single coolant loop, I guess how effective it is anybody's guess.Radiation shielding etc will be an issue, if we look from DBA perspective etc. But my information is limited, so I have nothing to say really there.
CANDU, RAPS-2 and MAPS-1/2 are all the same reactors basically. Our first true-blue reactor with indigenous technology was the NAPS-1 and everything that followed after. So I don't know why you have given so much importance to MAPS. And NAPS-1 started working well only from its 5th year.
So they are simply much better than us in running the reactor
It's not an obsession. There are various reasons for it.
1. Nuclear deal - Hence diplomatic compulsion. We received a lot of help getting an NSG waiver and recognition as a nuclear power. So we are going to have to pay for it through reactor orders.
2. The promise of buying LWRs have allowed us access to unlimited supplies of uranium imports. This is of direct benefit to our overall nuclear power situation.
3. Importing reactors allow us to bring in the best global practices, which we can then apply in our own programs.
4. Investment - It allows foreign companies related to nuclear research to invest in India.
5. It allows India to collaborate with other countries in future generation programs, like the ITER.
6. 4% enriched uranium is cheap. And we need nuclear power far beyond what our first two stages (only 50+GW) can deliver.
Our plan under the three stage program is to build 10GW of PHWRs in order to sustain the 2nd stage and we will achieve that goal by 2027.
Exactly the reason - MAPS was not our design, or our tinkering of CANDU. Similar to KKNPP in 2013. Had well established counterparts. And secondly what I am comparing is the frequent reactor triping and not the maturity of design. During startup multiple systems can trip up the system, from conventional island. At times from Nuclear side of things too. But this sort of frequent outages caused by triping of Emergency Core protection systems of the reactor - essentially we couldn't control the chain reaction properly and we were testing the envelope of safe operation. You may very well compare NAPS and its bad record, but please keep in mind, they had design changes made by us(integral end shield-calendria iirc, etc) and it was part of a learning curve, whereas VVER are a fully tested out design as you mentioned and Indian operators were trained in a Russian facility, so I was just asking, why the glitch, at such a crucial phase. Feel free to compare with RAPS 2, if that suits the discussion better and If it proves Im wrong, well I am ready to eat the humble pie. MAPS because, simply I looked at its data during those days, so purely arbitrary.
BTW let me be clear, I have nothing against VVER, they are a good design, though the excess of active systems make it less better than others from my POV, thats it. And I question the quality aspects based on initial operational experience in India. I am more than happy they are running OK now. While doing so, if you could plot the outages also along with net production, i believe it will give you a better view.
Did you just guess that from Net production? I believe we have been running nuclear reactors for years before. the records at kaiga and raps are testimony to our competence and training. Thereby, if we are bad at running the VVER may I blame that on Russians, who trained us poorly? Or it is just that Indians are not bad operators, but the reactor was tripping? because, we had passed the training from Russia, perfectly well.
1. Agreed
2. We could have doubled down on AHWR, though risky proposition.
3. So our practices are not by international standards? And especially where? In operations? Design? This is tenuous at best. Why deride our capability?
4. Foreign FDI in nuclear research in india? Can you name any ? No body shares their crown jewels, which you do know better than me
5. Except ITER in which design exercise are we collaborating? In operations aren't we already a part of Candu Owner's Group and havent our reactors at times adjudged the best performer before?
6. I would say the availability of this has lulled us into complacency. And again , given all this where is the French or US scale of Nuclear power adaption in India? What has been our progress in closing the fuel cycle since '08?
Not sure what happened. Has the power plant stopped working before ?Tripped again?
Unit 1 had frequent trips, unit 2 comparitively few, but yes. Let me search the old load dispatch data, if available, to post here, as I lost my collection LDC spreadsheets from days backNot sure what happened. Has the power plant stopped working before ?
Wasn't RP Taleyarkhan, thrown out of Oakridge for want of proof and independent verification? Or is this some other methodology of attaining the "unattainable"?
I came here to post the same, but you beat me to it.Third Unit of Kakrapar Atomic Reactor to be Commissioned in April
The 700-MW pressurised heavy water reactor is likely to be commissioned by April while the fourth unit would likely to be commissioned by 2021.
By PTI, Updated: December 31, 2019, 5:57 PM IST
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The 700-MW pressurised heavy water reactor is likely to be commissioned by April while the fourth unit would likely to be commissioned by 2021.
New Delhi: The Department of Atomic Energy will commission one nuclear reactor every year from 2020, starting with the third unit of the Kakrapar Atomic Power Station in Gujarat, Union minister Jitendra Singh said.
The 700-MW pressurised heavy water reactor is likely to be commissioned by April, Singh, who is a minister of state in the Prime Minister's Office, said in an interaction with reporters in New Delhi. "We will commission one nuclear reactor every year from 2020. Kakrapar-3 should be commissioned in 2020," Singh said.
A senior Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) official said the fourth unit of the power station would likely to be commissioned by 2021. The Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd (NPCIL) has 22 reactors.
Shrikrishna Gupta, a senior DAE official, said the Tarapur Atomic Power Reactors -- units 1 and 2 -- completed 50 years of operation this year. The two boiling water reactors -- the first in the country -- were commissioned in October 1969.
He said the Kaiga Power Station unit 1 also created a world record by operating for 941 days.
Third Unit of Kakrapar Atomic Reactor to be Commissioned in April