PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

Unlike AMCA, the F-35 has a bulky airframe built around 1 massive F-135 engine which outputs more power than older gen jets. The downside ofc was a relatively large IR signature.

LM was forced to make several design compromises to come up with a common base design for the 'joint' strike fighter program. The engine thermal mgmt system is another problem area.

The ADVENT/AETP prog was meant to solve these issues. However, this new engine won't be available for the foreseeable future.

Given the situation, I'd say US F-35 pilots were asking for trouble by flying at low altitudes over Iran (or the threat assessment provided by US intel on Iranian AD was not up to the mark.)

They were supposedly using MQ-9s for close-in recon, weren't they?

Correct, there were compromises bcoz it was exportable Joint SF.

F-35, Su-75 or stealthy MWF, if we want 1 engine stealth jet with more fuel, IWB weapons then the engine has to be powerful to have acceptable ATWR, hence bigger diameter & IRS.
Things to reduce IRS was done like shown in points - PAO cooling, more HXs, transpiration cooling, etc. Even AMCA is said to have 'Vapor Compression Cooling'. But these things wont work with AB in any jet bcoz that's raw power & external, hence it becomes important to push dry thrust as far as possible.

AETP upgrade was offered but only ECU was decided to lower MLU cost.

Like i said, AMCA & other jets could face same challenges in future wars bcoz anybody would try to -
- fly using terrain masking.
- hide mobile passive IR SAMs by terrain camouflage to avoid recon by drones, spy-sats.

 

[batman]

There's diff. b/w IIT AIR-1 & others too so don't worry.

what are you trying to say?

Ask more explanation on point not clear, like in school, college, office training. I try to use bulleted points, pics, vids, diagrams, calculations, tables, etc.

More like it's more difficult to understand the main point of your posts compared to others, it seems like you just post all random related information about a particular topic you find instead of coming to a proper conclusion with relevant points unlike an essay writing competition.

So in this case, Speedster mentioned thermal signature management, so i elaborated on its methods & limits of IR.

I see.

 

[Speedster1]

Correct, there were compromises bcoz it was exportable Joint SF.

Nope. The need for a STOVL variant within the same overall dimensions + parts commonality requirement was the reason behind it. Cost was likely a factor too considering that even the competing X-32 came with a single engine.

Things to reduce IRS was done like shown in points - PAO cooling, more HXs, transpiration cooling, etc. Even AMCA is said to have 'Vapor Compression Cooling'. But these things wont work with AB in any jet bcoz that's raw power & external, hence it becomes important to push dry thrust as far as possible.

The point is Iranian AD was still able to detect and target the F-35. There was shrapnel damage to the airframe too. Unless the Iranians used AAA, this means the F-35s much hyped EW/IRCM barely did its job.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

Nope. The need for a STOVL variant within the same overall dimensions + parts commonality requirement was the reason behind it. Cost was likely a factor too considering that even the competing X-32 came with a single engine.

- Yes ofcourse STOVL too. Flat nozzle is said to be avoided due to that. But fluid dynamics support round nozzles better.
- Parts commonality is must to bring down cost if multiple variants.
- But ATWR of A & C models also less.
- Now a 1 engine 6gen can also be attempted, approximation of ATWR can be made, so it'll be even more powerful engine but perhaps with better IR suppression hopefully, like more flat nozzle as seen in ad for NGAD.

The point is Iranian AD was still able to detect and target the F-35. There was shrapnel damage to the airframe too. Unless the Iranians used AAA, this means the F-35s much hyped EW/IRCM barely did its job.

- See this is why i mentioned AMCA & other jets also. Every maker company/country curses others as hype & praises self's products.
- We have our clarification Vs Pak/foreign claims in Op Sindoor. Similarly US says F-35 detected the SR-SAM as an ambush & maneuvered using AB to evade SAM. Otherwise ideally F-35 should have been downed with pilot KIA or ejected & captured.
- In my limited understanding, all short range SAM IR sensors will pick friction heat in MWIR or LWIR bands.
- Apart from IR suppression methods, as counter-measures, only Su-57 has DIRCM, rest all have just flares.
- And once AB is lit to evade missile then it adds to air-frame heat.
- 6gen aims to have DEW-CIWS.
- Active IRS panels not demonstrated on A/c yet.
- It would be interesting actually to ask LM if their F-22, F-35 MLU will have DIRCM. If not then why not.