That's fair. The winner was definitely not the worst. Its good that they didn't pull off a scorpion.
These numbers were never substantiated. Entire argument hangs on it. Lets leave it at that.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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And here around 5:30 air marshall SHRIVASTAVA confirms the active cancellation with SPECTRA, as well as the RCS of the J-20 is higher than the RCS of the Rafale + active cancellation.
Rafales Can Give Big Advantage In Tibet In Aerial Combat: Ex-Air Force Chief
Mr Dhanoa, known as the architect of the Balakot strikes, said the Rafale jets along with S-400 missile systems will give the Indian Air Force a major combat edge in the entire region.
Mr Dhanoa, known as the architect of the Balakot strikes, said the Rafale jets along with S-400 missile systems will give the Indian Air Force a major combat edge in the entire region.
in this recent Livefist interview, Raghu Nambiar(Former C in C, Western Air command of IAF) also said that overall stealth of Rafale is better than J-20 and according to him, J-20 is not a stealthy bird as claimed by Chinese
'Cause software is the future. Hardware has become secondary to software.
Weaponised Hawk and A-10 can't be used until air supremacy is achieved. Tanks are fine, but they will slowly become more and more expensive to the point nobody can afford them.
Can't compare how civilian finances work compared to military.
Haha. Cheers then.
He retired in 2006. And he wrote an article in 2011 and the L1 was declared in 2012. It was just a guesswork figure and a lot of water has flown under the bridges since.
Even the CAG didn't mention the tender amount.
CAG report shows IAF wanted only Rafale, competitive bidding was just a charade
Rafale failed on several parameters but the Air Force, impressed by Mirage aircraft in Kargil war, remained insistent on jets from Dassault.
theprint.in
Dassault was not the lowest bidder — CAG report contradicts Modi govt on Rafale
CAG says a defence ministry panel report stated in March 2015 that Dassault was not L1 in the original bidding process for 126 jets, and so a contract could not be signed with it.
theprint.in
CAG Report
Basically, Dassault did not submit all the documents and EADS did. Thus we were not comparing them equally. We don't know who the actual L1 was. (As expected the french did not play fair)
From TEC stage itself, Dassault should have disqualified if they were following due process (For which is here we are paying $1.7 billion). On top of that
In July 2014, M/s EADS gave an unsolicited offer of a 20 percent discount on the previous firm-fixed 2007 offer on behalf of the Eurofighter typhoon Consortium. Thus it again cast more shadow on Rafale being L1.
Let me repeat what CAG said,
Your selective myopia about MMRCA is rather amusing.
Having seen the Rafale up close , having touched it (in a sexual perverted way) and having watched it flying , i can say its a great aircraft.
He retired in 2006. And he wrote an article in 2011 and the L1 was declared in 2012. It was just a guesswork figure and a lot of water has flown under the bridges since.
Even the CAG didn't mention the tender amount.
CAG report shows IAF wanted only Rafale, competitive bidding was just a charade
Rafale failed on several parameters but the Air Force, impressed by Mirage aircraft in Kargil war, remained insistent on jets from Dassault.
Dassault was not the lowest bidder — CAG report contradicts Modi govt on Rafale
CAG says a defence ministry panel report stated in March 2015 that Dassault was not L1 in the original bidding process for 126 jets, and so a contract could not be signed with it.
View attachment 16996
View attachment 16997
CAG Report
Basically, Dassault did not submit all the documents and EADS did. Thus we were not comparing them equally. We don't know who the actual L1 was. (As expected the french did not play fair)
From TEC stage itself, Dassault should have disqualified if they were following due process (For which is here we are paying $1.7 billion). On top of that
In July 2014, M/s EADS gave an unsolicited offer of a 20 percent discount on the previous firm-fixed 2007 offer on behalf of the Eurofighter typhoon Consortium. Thus it again cast more shadow the Rafale being L1.
Let me repeat what CAG said,
Your selective myopia about MMRCA is rather amusing.
You are talking about something entirely irrelevant. A bid amount is a very hard figure. It's not arbitrary or keeps changing. It's constant.
And no, you can't change the amount by giving a discount over your previous bid. Anyway, even the 20% discounted Typhoon was still more expensive than the Rafale, so again irrelevant.
And CAG, lol.
When documents are incomplete bid amount is irrelevant. Which was the point.
Yes, you calculated with your made-up number with no hard evidence. lol at actual documents.
Better than your daily dose of assumptions packed as fact. 2022 much?
Haha. So even after the Supreme Court gave a clean chit to the process, you wanna get sucked into a useless, irrelevant topic. Cheers. Or go take it up again in the Supreme Court.
And no, the bid amounts from Adm Prakash were fine. I already gave an example, $8.3B for 36 Rafales and $8.7B for 28 Typhoons. More or less the same as what came out of MMRCA.
There may not be corruption but services bend rules to get the preferred item (They do it all the time, recent was P8I). It may not be a bad thing. But it may not be the cheapest. The whole point was that.
SC looked into 36 G-to-G deal. If they would have gone ahead with MMRCA it would have been a scam nothing else.
I have always admired your confidence. Only @Sancho can match you.
People, especially ashwin wasting a lot of bandwidth arguing about pennies here about a done deal. Unless you are papu in disguise , the conversation should move on to how to utilize the rafale in the best possible way.
And personally buying British built makes me puke.
Oil guzzling Sea harriers, scrapped carrier for 1 b usd, trainer hawks with supposedly multiple applications.
And personally buying British built makes me puke.
Oil guzzling Sea harriers, scrapped carrier for 1 b usd, trainer hawks with supposedly multiple applications.
It depends.
The "smarts" cannot outdo the Shannon-Hartley theorem. In presence of strong noise, all signal is lost -- no matter how much smarts you apply.
That said, indeed distance matters, but then it is relative. Relative to strength of signal carrying information. A weak signal will drown in a stronger noise and no smarts can recover it. No smarts can predict more information than :
B log2(1 + S/N)
Increase N and channel capacity will go to zero. No amount of processing or "smarts" will help. Infact, in presence of noise, "smarts" can work against you. If your system sees too much information in noise, it is possible to fool your system into seeing things when there were none.
Time for brute force is NEVER gone
But you need to know when to play it and if you can play it. Because sometimes, brute force is not practical. When it works, it works quite well and as its name suggest, it works categorically.
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It depends.
The "smarts" cannot outdo the Shannon-Hartley theorem. In presence of strong noise, all signal is lost -- no matter how much smarts you apply.
That said, indeed distance matters, but then it is relative. Relative to strength of signal carrying information. A weak signal will drown in a stronger noise and no smarts can recover it. No smarts can predict more information than :
B log2(1 + S/N)
Increase N and channel capacity will go to zero. No amount of processing or "smarts" will help. Infact, in presence of noise, "smarts" can work against you. If your system sees too much information in noise, it is possible to fool your system into seeing things when there were none.
Time for brute force is NEVER gone
Not really. The very purpose of LPI in radar is to work within strong noise so the signal is not detected.
No, even LPI cann't overcome basic physics. As I said, there is nothing you can do to outdo really strong noise. Just depends where it is coming and if you have ammunition to destroy the source by homing onto it and what counter measure the source has against your weapons.
As I said, brute force never goes out of fashion. It can become impractical in some scenario but will never go out of fashion.
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The problem is that we needed it in 2008 and we are getting it now that too in low numbers.
the details :
bla bla bla.He retired in 2006. And he wrote an article in 2011 and the L1 was declared in 2012. It was just a guesswork figure and a lot of water has flown under the bridges since.
Even the CAG didn't mention the tender amount.
CAG report shows IAF wanted only Rafale, competitive bidding was just a charade
Rafale failed on several parameters but the Air Force, impressed by Mirage aircraft in Kargil war, remained insistent on jets from Dassault.
Dassault was not the lowest bidder — CAG report contradicts Modi govt on Rafale
CAG says a defence ministry panel report stated in March 2015 that Dassault was not L1 in the original bidding process for 126 jets, and so a contract could not be signed with it.
View attachment 16996
View attachment 16997
CAG Report
Basically, Dassault did not submit all the documents and EADS did. Thus we were not comparing them equally. We don't know who the actual L1 was. (As expected the french did not play fair)
From TEC stage itself, Dassault should have disqualified if they were following due process (For which is here we are paying $1.7 billion). On top of that
In July 2014, M/s EADS gave an unsolicited offer of a 20 percent discount on the previous firm-fixed 2007 offer on behalf of the Eurofighter typhoon Consortium. Thus it again cast more shadow on Rafale being L1.
Let me repeat what CAG said,
Your selective myopia about MMRCA is rather amusing.
You don't like the Rafale. It's your right.
Hopefully for IAF your advice was not taking in acompt.
Result : Rafale is in the Indian force.
End of the story.
Attachments
As far as i can remember back then IAF was focused on SU-30 and the foreign procurement deal was more political than military.
The Su-30 was supposed to go in for upgrades. The MMRCA was launched in 2007 by Saint Anthony to avoid any allegations of bribery. Nothing to do with political issues. The IAF always wanted the Rafale, after their experience with the the Mirage 2000. The LCA was till taking baby steps. While the DARIN upgrades were happening for the Jags. They were running in parallel.
We could have simply gone ahead and procured the Rafale, if the opposition and government were on the same page. But the deluge of corruption allegations and scams against the then government, literally killed it.