Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Rajput Lion said:
Training, tactics and courage are as important tools of winning wars as "cutting-edge military tech". Pakistan had more high-tech toys in 1965 and 1971, yet we whooped them. Gnats killing F-86s and Mystere IV killing F-104 was not a fluke. 'Nuff said.
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It was not domination at the level we require. We need to do something like a gulf war 1 against the Pakistanis.
 
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Harpy1 said:
If Fcas is scrapped what will France do about sixth generation platform
They can't keep flying them beyond 2060
Unmanned drones only maybe
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What is costly in a modern jet fighter ?
weapon system cost >> Engine developpment costs >> Frame dev costs.

Rafale F5 will already pave the way for 6 gen. Put the F5 weapon system in a new VLO frame, with longer legs and variable flux engines and it will not cost so much.

And with Germany and spain, the cloud and some parts of a brand new weapon systme may also be developped.

The sole point of friction is the frame.
 
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How did I guess and said previously, France doesn't have the money and it will be underfunded, Just use the existing F5 Rafale tech and put it in another frame and call it 6th gen, What can go wrong?
 
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If the Indian government signs a contract for 114 more Rafales—a proposed order that the country’s Defense Acquisition Council approved—a second final assembly line for the fighter may be created in Hyderabad.

Dassault Gears Up For Rafale Output Uptick, Indian Production | Aviation Week

Dassault Aviation has been gradually increasing the production rate of the Rafale fighter, aiming for four aircraft per month in 2029.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 
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Rate 5 may take into account production in India. Dassault partnered with Tata Advanced Systems last year to establish local production of two Rafale fuselage sections per month, with the first delivery scheduled for 2028. If the Indian government signs a contract for 114 more Rafales—a proposed order that the country’s Defense Acquisition Council approved—a second final assembly line for the fighter may be created in Hyderabad. A target production rate has yet to be specified, Trappier said, stressing he is aiming for as many locally produced Rafales as possible.

India is targeting greater than 50% localization of components for future Rafales made in-country, Defense Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh said Feb. 13. Asked whether Dassault could meet that condition, Trappier answered affirmatively. “That 50% proportion is the outcome of a calculation that relies on many parameters,” he said. “We can do it, knowing we have a potential agreement with Indian authorities on what 50% means.”
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Dassault Gears Up For Rafale Output Uptick, Indian Production | Aviation Week

Dassault Aviation has been gradually increasing the production rate of the Rafale fighter, aiming for four aircraft per month in 2029.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 
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Ginvincible said:
defencesecurityasia.com

France Refuses Rafale Source Codes to India, Triggering Major Blow to New Delhi’s Airpower Independence Strategy - Defence Security Asia

France has reportedly denied India access to Rafale source codes covering the AESA radar, MDPU mission computer and SPECTRA electronic warfare suite, undermining New Delhi’s efforts to independently upgrade and integrate its fighter fleet.
defencesecurityasia.com defencesecurityasia.com
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Who thought that French would share Rafale's source code or SPECTRA software codes with us? Russia will always be our number one defence partner followed by Israel exactly for this reason.
 
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Ginvincible said:
defencesecurityasia.com

France Refuses Rafale Source Codes to India, Triggering Major Blow to New Delhi’s Airpower Independence Strategy - Defence Security Asia

France has reportedly denied India access to Rafale source codes covering the AESA radar, MDPU mission computer and SPECTRA electronic warfare suite, undermining New Delhi’s efforts to independently upgrade and integrate its fighter fleet.
defencesecurityasia.com defencesecurityasia.com
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I mean, is anyone here seriously surprised and actually expected anything different? No country is gonna be as generous as Russia to us when it comes to tech transfer and handing over critical tech like them. We shouldn't expect other countries to uphold the same standards as that of Russia, anyone else like US or Europe or maybe even the East would have done the same for our demands since no country would want to hand over their best tech giving them an edge to others on a platter, especially one who is a rising power and building their industrial might which might rival or outpace them, I would expect the same from our government. So, we should increase our investment, r&d, hire overseas experts and make similar or better technologies on our own.
 
batman said:
I mean, is anyone here seriously surprised and actually expected anything different? No country is gonna be as generous as Russia to us when it comes to tech transfer and handing over critical tech like them. We shouldn't expect other countries to uphold the same standards as that of Russia, anyone else like US or Europe or maybe even the East would have done the same for our demands since no country would want to hand over their best tech giving them an edge to others on a platter, especially one who is a rising power and building their industrial might which might rival or outpace them, I would expect the same from our government. So, we should increase our investment, r&d, hire overseas experts and make similar or better technologies on our own.
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It's overblown. The Russians also impose the same restrictions. Paying to use the jets and paying for R&D to get source codes are not the same things after all.

Anyway, the IAF has reported they are happy with the ToT already offered. They can integrate what they want and caliberate the radar too.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2039423133896384927

https://twitter.com/x/status/2039423912472432647

https://twitter.com/x/status/2039424462727295227

https://twitter.com/x/status/2039425201977663887

https://twitter.com/x/status/2039426108639347101
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If the Frenchies want to position the Rafale as a sovereign alternative to the F-35, they will need to provide their largest customer with API level integration access at the very least. Or the whole sales pitch falls flat.
 
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randomradio said:
It's overblown. The Russians also impose the same restrictions. Paying to use the jets and paying for R&D to get source codes are not the same things after all.

Anyway, the IAF has reported they are happy with the ToT already offered. They can integrate what they want and caliberate the radar too.
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I'm pretty sure that Russia offers much better deals on similar platforms when compared to france but nobody should expect complete transfer of tech, frankly even asking or expecting it is ludicrous in my opinion yet I can also agree Russia is much more flexible and generous when it comes to tech transfer than france, What has or will the rafale deal do for our industry or ecosystem other capable jets wont do? Russian deals seems to be a lot better for us in the long or short run.
 
batman said:
I'm pretty sure that Russia offers much better deals on similar platforms when compared to france but nobody should expect complete transfer of tech, frankly even asking or expecting it is ludicrous in my opinion yet I can also agree Russia is much more flexible and generous when it comes to tech transfer than france, What has or will the rafale deal do for our industry or ecosystem other capable jets wont do? Russian deals seems to be a lot better for us in the long or short run.
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Rafale's ToT is much more ambitious than MKI's. MKI appears to have a higher figure because of Indian avionics. But France is willing to part with 100% of the airframe and engine while Russia's still kept both with themselves even after 30 years. They are even refusing to replace core engine parts with our own.
 
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randomradio said:
Rafale's ToT is much more ambitious than MKI's. MKI appears to have a higher figure because of Indian avionics. But France is willing to part with 100% of the airframe and engine while Russia's still kept both with themselves even after 30 years. They are even refusing to replace core engine parts with our own.
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MKIs was done 20 years ago. the French is being done right now and therefore should be competing against present russian deals. Not deals from 20 years ago.
 
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The issue about source codes, I had addressed it last year.

6119...
randomradio

Post in thread 'MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions'

Parthu said:
The tweet says "regardless of the number of units ordered", which means even the 114-jet MRFA order won't get us the source codes.
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That's just stupid. We are already integrating Astra on the Rafale. Most other weapons are significantly less intrusive. All we need is access to the weapons integration module in the MC or via a middleware. The US is allowing that for partner nations even for the F-35.

For stealth, we will still need French assistance, but for non-stealth, we will be able to integrate like we do on regular jets without the need to access SPECTRA's core systems.

We...
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Both Astra and SAAW are being integrated on the Rafale without any ToT or access to source codes.

And 6124.
randomradio

Post in thread 'MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions'

Parthu said:
Not sharing source codes doesn't mean we won't be allowed to integrate our weapons. It just means we can't do it by ourselves, will need to pay them for the privilege. That's all.
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Yes, for now. When the news broke the first time, people actually assumed France had blanket-banned Indian weapons on Rafale. They didn't know we got into a deal for Astra and SAAW last year.

The IAF wants to integrate weapons on their own, which is fine. But it's not a technical hurdle, it's a business hurdle. So when stuff like "regardless of the number of units ordered" shows up, it just looks...
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Don't get taken in by the anti-French lobby.
 
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