Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Congress has no issues with Rafale jet, problem is with how ‘contract was signed’

Senior Congress leaders have met French diplomats, assuring them there won’t be any issues with existing Rafale contract if Congress comes to power.

Snehesh Alex Philip Updated: 25 April, 2019 5:27 pm IST

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New Delhi: After the Congress launched a full campaign against the Modi government over allegations of corruption in the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets, top sources in the party have told ThePrint that it has no issues with the aircraft and the deal would go through smoothly if it comes back to power.
“The Congress party does not have any issues with the Rafale aircraft per se. The problem is the way the contract was negotiated and signed,” a top source in the Congress said.
The Modi government had signed a deal with France and its defence major Dassault Aviation in September 2016 to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets.
Diplomatic sources said top Congress leaders like Anand Sharma and others have also met French diplomats on the Rafale issue, assuring them that there won’t be any issues with the existing contract, and with the new Indian Air Force tender for 114 aircraft if Rafale is selected.
The party manifesto for the Lok Sabha elections has an image of Rafale on the page where it talks about security. The accompanying text talks about strengthening armed forces.
Earlier this year, party leader and former finance minister P. Chidambaram had told The Indian Express that the Congress won’t scrap the deal for 36 Rafale fighters, but will buy more at cheaper rates if it comes back to power.

‘Lower rates’

However, top sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that the Modi government’s proposed plan was to buy 72 aircraft. It was expected that once the deal for 36 Rafale fighter jets goes through, another 36 would be bought at cheaper rates.
The rates for the next set of aircraft are supposed to be lower because the government has already paid a one-time fee of €1.3 billion for India-specific enhancements, said the sources.
While 36 aircraft can easily be based in one location, the 2016 contract is for setting up bases in two locations, added the sources.
“The cost for setting up the bases is already paid for in the 2016 contract. Any new Rafale would be cheaper because no payment would have to be paid for India-specific enhancement and for setting up of additional base,” a top source told ThePrint.
The Congress has been using the Rafale issue as a major political plank for its Lok Sabha campaign, accusing the Modi government of crony capitalism by favouring industrialist Anil Ambani and his Reliance group companies.

Source: Congress has no issues with Rafale jet, problem is with how ‘contract was signed’

@Picdelamirand-oil period post elections is going to be very active... The winds are favorable, now its all on Dassault, how it roles out or flounders its opportunity.
 
The operational requirement of IAF is MINIMUM 80 rafales.So another 40-50 jets are almost certain.
2nd mrca contest will likely be scrapped again.
40-50 rafales along with existing 36 ,18 more su-30mkis and 21 unfinished upgraded Mig-29 from russia will fulfill requirement along with tejas and sukhoi30 upgrade.
 
The operational requirement of IAF is MINIMUM 80 rafales.So another 40-50 jets are almost certain.
2nd mrca contest will likely be scrapped again.
40-50 rafales along with existing 36 ,18 more su-30mkis and 21 unfinished upgraded Mig-29 from russia will fulfill requirement along with tejas and sukhoi30 upgrade.

The IAF needs 200-250 Rafales, not just 80.
 
Source: Congress has no issues with Rafale jet, problem is with how ‘contract was signed’

@Picdelamirand-oil period post elections is going to be very active... The winds are favorable, now its all on Dassault, how it roles out or flounders its opportunity.
Dassault's philosophy is: "Bien faire et laisser braire" (Doing well and letting it bray)
Everything will go well because the first Indian Rafale will arrive and Dassault has decided to start the Make in India for the Rafale as soon as the next contract is signed, even if this one does not allow to reach the 100 Rafale sold (so even for 36). In addition, the new contract will make it possible to see the true price of the Rafale because it will not be overloaded by the price of specific developments and by the cost of upgrading the bases.
 
The IAF needs 200-250 Rafales, not just 80.

80 is minimum requirement.200 rafales is daydreaming.No money.
France itself has only 110 rafales with a 42 billion dollar budget.And they operate 230 total fighter jets.We have to operate a 600 plus fighter fleet including 250 fuel guzzling sukhois.
 
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The IAF needs 200-250 Rafales, not just 80.

Can we really afford that many? I'd be happy if we even get 200 total (~150 IAF, ~50 INAA). Numbers will have to be made up by Tejas (taking up the CAP/Interceptor duty) + IAF slowly delegating responsibilities ( Army Aviation getting attack helos + ground attack crafts - maybe even Armed Hawks - for CAS and INAA possibly taking over shore protection).
 
IAF strength by 2025 end.

15 squadrons Sukhoi 30 MKI (some upgraded to super30) - 290 (272-8 crashes +8 replacement+18 new order)
2 squadrons Tejas mk1 FOC -40
2 squadrons Tejas mk1A - 30-40
6 squadrons Jaguar Darin 2 and 3 (100 plus minus)
3 squadrons Mirage 2000-5 - 48 (understrength)
2 squadrons Rafale -36
4 squadrons Mig-29 upg (80 plus,3 existing squadrons plus 21 new acquisition)

We will have 34 squadrons.Around 620-630 frontline jets.We can pretty much maintain that level,but getting to 40 will be tough.
 
80 is minimum requirement.200 rafales is daydreaming.No money.
France itself has only 110 rafales with a 42 billion dollar budget.And they operate 230 total fighter jets.We have to operate a 600 plus fighter fleet including 250 fuel guzzling sukhois.

There is most definitely money for it. We will be inducting 114 jets starting from 2027 or so. By then we will be a bigger economy than Japan.

Can we really afford that many? I'd be happy if we even get 200 total (~150 IAF, ~50 INAA). Numbers will have to be made up by Tejas (taking up the CAP/Interceptor duty) + IAF slowly delegating responsibilities ( Army Aviation getting attack helos + ground attack crafts - maybe even Armed Hawks - for CAS and INAA possibly taking over shore protection).

Of course we can. The IAF needs 200-250 apart from everything else you have noted.

In fact, IAF needs more squadron strength than just 42.
 
IAF strength by 2025 end.

15 squadrons Sukhoi 30 MKI (some upgraded to super30) - 290 (272-8 crashes +8 replacement+18 new order)
2 squadrons Tejas mk1 FOC -40
2 squadrons Tejas mk1A - 30-40
6 squadrons Jaguar Darin 2 and 3 (100 plus minus)
3 squadrons Mirage 2000-5 - 48 (understrength)
2 squadrons Rafale -36
4 squadrons Mig-29 upg (80 plus,3 existing squadrons plus 21 new acquisition)

We will have 34 squadrons.Around 620-630 frontline jets.We can pretty much maintain that level,but getting to 40 will be tough.

Rafale will likely be 72 by 2025.
 
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Dassault's philosophy is: "Bien faire et laisser braire" (Doing well and letting it bray)
Everything will go well because the first Indian Rafale will arrive and Dassault has decided to start the Make in India for the Rafale as soon as the next contract is signed, even if this one does not allow to reach the 100 Rafale sold (so even for 36). In addition, the new contract will make it possible to see the true price of the Rafale because it will not be overloaded by the price of specific developments and by the cost of upgrading the bases.
That my friend be the right way to go, once MII starts, it be a permanent player in Indian market, many follow on will come for sure in periodic basis & keep production line open. Looking at IAF, they will keep buying F4 if they can afford it in tranches, as that whats growing economy will allow, year on year. Even if MMRCA 2.0 gets delayed due to any reason
But to fully immerse in India strategic long term plans, Dassault will also have to
positively contribute something to LCA MK2, AMCA etc too. to ensure no else comes into the void. If you get my drift.
It be a mix of LCA, Rafales, not in competing ways, to create the mix. Along with some Russian platforms in upgraded capacity.
 
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80 is minimum requirement.200 rafales is daydreaming.No money.
France itself has only 110 rafales with a 42 billion dollar budget.And they operate 230 total fighter jets.We have to operate a 600 plus fighter fleet including 250 fuel guzzling sukhois.
No,
France orders a total of 180 planes as for now, and nearly 150 are delivered.
A next batch is expected for 45 more.
 
Can we really afford that many? I'd be happy if we even get 200 total (~150 IAF, ~50 INAA). Numbers will have to be made up by Tejas (taking up the CAP/Interceptor duty) + IAF slowly delegating responsibilities ( Army Aviation getting attack helos + ground attack crafts - maybe even Armed Hawks - for CAS and INAA possibly taking over shore protection).
Once you paid the indigenisation of the plane and the main tools and test benchs, a next batch of Rafale will cost in the 95 € millions each (if no offsets. If offset needed, add it to the cost).
No urgent need for a new air base accomodation for a new batch of 36 (in France the Saint Dizier air base hosts more than 45 Rafale)
You don't absolutely need to purchase the same amount of weapons than with the first batch, and you can integrate your own ones (ASTRA ?).

If you need far more planes, you will have to purchase some more test benchs, spares, air bases modifications... but a next step of 36 planes may be very affordable because 90% of the fixed costs are already there.
 
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The operational requirement of IAF is MINIMUM 80 rafales.So another 40-50 jets are almost certain.
2nd mrca contest will likely be scrapped again.
40-50 rafales along with existing 36 ,18 more su-30mkis and 21 unfinished upgraded Mig-29 from russia will fulfill requirement along with tejas and sukhoi30 upgrade.
Your numbers are wrong. France has about 150 of them. The 42 billions include studies, prototyping etc. Originally for 220 planes (since they decided to go for 180)
 
Your numbers are wrong. France has about 150 of them. The 42 billions include studies, prototyping etc. Originally for 220 planes (since they decided to go for 180)
Another batch of 45 is in the pipe, to prepare the next replacement of the last Mirage 2000-5 and some D, for a total fleet of 225 (target of the defense white book)
 
The SENAT report where the cost was € 42 Billions was at a time where the program planned 286 Rafale on which around 50 was for Navy.
Now it is 225 For Air force and Navy, but our Air chief of staff asks for 215 for Air force only. This is a possible final number (215 + 50) because we are in the process to increase our spending to reach 2% of GDP (NATO rule).
 
The SENAT report were the cost was € 42 Billions was at a time where the program planned 286 Rafale on which around 50 was for Navy.
Now it is 225 For Air force and Navy, but our Air chief of staff asks for 215 for Air force only. This is a possible final number (215 + 50) because we are in the process to increase our spending to reach 2% of GDP (NATO rule).
Dont worry bro, you can have a drink. Modi is coming back as PM with a larger majority and more Rafale orders as direct purchase and also make in India are a done deal. RSS is Hindu nationalist group and no one in BJP including Modi can refuse their dictate.