Rafale M of Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

As well as Shan explaining that Spectra is self protection and not escort or stand off jamming,
Google also tells me the Rafale can't shoot down a hypersonic missile
"The Dassault Rafale is not currently equipped to shoot down hypersonic missiles, as it lacks both the specialized high-performance interceptors and the ultra-fast tracking systems required for such a task."

Though there are aircraft that can,
 
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I think there is some confusion around my recent points wrt to rafale & its role in CSG. To be clear , im not saying the rafale is gonna shoot down hypersonic missile targeting ship, nor that it provides stand-off jamming or missile interception capabilities.

The carrier air wing is the outer most defensive layer of naval fleet...detecting & destroying threats before they reach to the ship.Carrier suvivability depends on pushing threats away from the ship. the carrier air wing makes this possible through range ,speed & offensive capability.

Currently there is no fighter aircraft posses the capability to shoot down hypersonic missiles.
 
Currently there is no fighter aircraft posses the capability to shoot down hypersonic missiles.
Super-hornet probably does, shooting down hypersonic ballistic missiles.
Given they have recently been armed with AIM-174B(A2A variant based on ship launched SM-6)

Before that US navy fighters already showed capabilities to shoot down subsonic and supersonic anti-ship missiles in exercrises,many times.
 
Super-hornet probably does, shooting down hypersonic ballistic missiles.
Given they have recently been armed with AIM-174B(A2A variant based on ship launched SM-6)

Before that US navy fighters already showed capabilities to shoot down subsonic and supersonic anti-ship missiles in exercrises,many times.
I dont think so , there is zero evidence / tests / exercises of a fighter intercepting a ballistic hypersonic missile. So claiming it ' probably ' isn't a capability , its a speculation.

Intercepting a sea skimming supersonic missile is not the same as shooting down a mach 15 re entry vehicle , a very hard problem for ADS too.

Soon we might see SH vs hypersonic missiles ....yk a very expensive way to test over Iran.
 
I dont think so , there is zero evidence / tests / exercises of a fighter intercepting a ballistic hypersonic missile. So claiming it ' probably ' isn't a capability , its a speculation.
An informed speculation.



The RIM-174 Standard Extended Range Active Missile (ERAM), or Standard Missile 6 (SM-6), is a missile in current production for the United States Navy (USN) by RTX. It was designed for extended-range anti-air warfare (ER-AAW) purposes, providing capability against fixed and rotary-wing aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, anti-ship cruise missiles in flight, both over sea and land, and **terminal ballistic missile defense**.

The RIM-174 Standard Missile-6 (SM-6) is designed to intercept short-to-medium-range ballistic missiles in their terminal phase, which typically involves hypersonic speeds, often exceeding Mach 5+ (or 1.7 km/s+).
 
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An informed speculation.



The RIM-174 Standard Extended Range Active Missile (ERAM), or Standard Missile 6 (SM-6), is a missile in current production for the United States Navy (USN) by RTX. It was designed for extended-range anti-air warfare (ER-AAW) purposes, providing capability against fixed and rotary-wing aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, anti-ship cruise missiles in flight, both over sea and land, and **terminal ballistic missile defense**.

The RIM-174 Standard Missile-6 (SM-6) is designed to intercept short-to-medium-range ballistic missiles in their terminal phase, which typically involves hypersonic speeds, often exceeding Mach 5+ (or 1.7 km/s+).
SM-6 can do terminal BMD on ships with integrated radar & network ofcourse , thats the role of an ADS.

A super hornet carrying AIM-174B ? , not tested.

informed speculation in wrong way ≠ proven capability.
 
informed speculation in wrong way ≠ proven capability.
Never implied its an proven capability, that's why I used *probably*



SM-6 can do terminal BMD on ships with integrated radar & network ofcourse , thats the role of an ADS
Super hornet IS connected to ship's radar&network also connected to E2 Hawkeye, an interconnected web.

Superhornet is a launch platform, used to further extend the range of defensive bubble.
 
A super hornet carrying AIM-174B ? , not tested.
Is your google broken? it is IOC and deployed and as bar bar said, it is interconnected and provides it's radar info, it needs AEGIS and ships computers to provide the firing solution, There isn't enough onboard to do it for hypersonic
The block 4 F-35 should be self-reliant
 
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Never implied its an proven capability, that's why I used *probably*




Super hornet IS connected to ship's radar&network also connected to E2 Hawkeye, an interconnected web.

Superhornet is a launch platform, used to further extend the range of defensive bubble.
SH as a launch platform even with network cueing cant replicate that engagement geometry or continuous fire control quality tracking that a ship based system does.
extending the defense bubble works well against bombers, AWACS, subsonic or supersonic cruise missiles.

how does fighter based AIM-174B handle a maneuvering hypersonic glide vehicle at mach 10 + with an unpredictable trajectory ??

how does SH maintain continuous quality tracking for mach 10 + target with limited radar power compared to ship based Aegis radar network ?

Are you assuming that missile kinematics alone determine interception capability , independent of launch platform radar ,tracking , engagement geometry ??
 
Is your google broken? it is IOC and deployed and as bar bar said, it is interconnected and provides it's radar info, it needs AEGIS and ships computers to provide the firing solution, There isn't enough onboard to do it for hypersonic
The block 4 F-35 should be self-reliant
As usual , blind optimist skips context & leaps straight to conclusions.
 
SH as a launch platform even with network cueing cant replicate that engagement geometry or continuous fire control quality tracking that a ship based system does.
It doesn't and doesn't need to, its a launch platform, it doesn't guide the missile the Ship's own radar does, AWACS does.



how does fighter based AIM-174B handle a maneuvering hypersonic glide vehicle at mach 10 + with an unpredictable trajectory ??
Don't know about HGV, but An air launched SM6 is as capable as a ground/Ship launched ones as far as missile's own capabilities go in intercepting SRBM's & MRBM's

But in intercepting SRBM's & MRBM's , the SM6 use the method of terminal interception i.e. intercepting the incoming missile during its terminal dive phase, but it has its own problems like the incoming missile needs to be intercepted quite close to the ship/launch platform itself

For SM-6 , In a terminal engagement, the interception typically happens within 30 to 70 km (approx. 16–38 nautical miles) horizontally from the ship, at an altitude of 20km or less.

Ship launched SM6 has an max altitude of 34 km official, A2A version launched by superhornet( flying at 10-15km altitude) should reach even higher, 40+km altitude.





While the ship's own radars on US navy arlieghburke destroyers, especially latest ones, are capable of tracking incoming SRBMs & MRBM's from hundreds of kms away, at higher altitudes and providing long range firing track.


Using superhornet as a launch platform will greatly extend the range and altitude at which SM6 can intercept incoming SRBM's & MRBM's, allowing another extended layer of ballistic defence that intercepts incoming SRBM's & MRBM's in their descent phase( altitudes of 30-40km) way before terminal phase begins.

Along with that, it also extend the defense bubble against bombers, AWACS, subsonic or supersonic cruise missiles.

SM-6 can also be used in anti-ship role.
 
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The air launched sm6/ AIM-174B doesn't have the booster, so they may be a similar range, It is as you said a serious missile
 
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It doesn't and doesn't need to, its a launch platform, it doesn't guide the missile the Ship's own radar does, AWACS does.




Don't know about HGV, but An air launched SM6 is as capable as a ground/Ship launched ones as far as missile's own capabilities go in intercepting SRBM's & MRBM's

But in intercepting SRBM's & MRBM's , the SM6 use the method of terminal interception i.e. intercepting the incoming missile during its terminal dive phase, but it has its own problems like the incoming missile needs to be intercepted quite close to the ship/launch platform itself

For SM-6 , In a terminal engagement, the interception typically happens within 30 to 70 km (approx. 16–38 nautical miles) horizontally from the ship, at an altitude of 20km or less.

Ship launched SM6 has an max altitude of 34 km official, A2A version launched by superhornet( flying at 10-15km altitude) should reach even higher, 40+km altitude.





While the ship's own radars on US navy arlieghburke destroyers, especially latest ones, are capable of tracking incoming SRBMs & MRBM's from hundreds of kms away, at higher altitudes and providing long range firing track.


Using superhornet as a launch platform will greatly extend the range and altitude at which SM6 can intercept incoming SRBM's & MRBM's, allowing another extended layer of ballistic defence that intercepts incoming SRBM's & MRBM's in their descent phase( altitudes of 30-40km) way before terminal phase begins.

Along with that, it also extend the defense bubble against bombers, AWACS, subsonic or supersonic cruise missiles.

SM-6 can also be used in anti-ship role.
SRBM /MRBM terminal intercept with air launched SM-6 likely possible with help from AEGIS Radar & network.

A maneuvering mach 10 HGV is a different ball game ,even for latest ADS...Let alone a fighter based BMD interceptor ( As falsely claimed by optimist ).

My original point that Super hornet / Fighter jets can't shoot down HGV remains valid & correct.
 
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SRBM /MRBM terminal intercept with air launched SM-6 likely possible with help from AEGIS Radar & network.

A maneuvering mach 10 HGV is a different ball game ,even for latest ADS...Let alone a fighter based BMD interceptor ( As falsely claimed by optimist ).

My original point that Super hornet / Fighter jets can't shoot down HGV remains valid & correct.
Indeed




TBH, small possibility exist that current SM6/AIM174B can intercept hgv's like df17 in terminal phase ( which actually are in the speed regime of mach 5-6 in terminal, not mach 10+, that's the top speed achieved during early phase of midcourse)


Also


img-17231889147604680ef742cddf7e57d8f4a3b2ceff42d3823432fcd042a0dd9141e1064ecd702.jpg

Screenshot_20240809-143345.png


**HUNTSVILLE, Alabama—The Missile Defense Agency (MDA) is planning to field a new version of its update to the Standard Missile 6 Sea Based Terminal aiming at hypersonic defense as its upcoming Glide Phase Interceptor (GPI) program faces a long road to operations.**







But given the midcoure of Df17 remains at altitude near space and outer space, shooting it down with SM6/AIM174B in midcourse is beyond the missile's capabilities, only GPI would do that when it gets fielded in future.

一种基于伪谱法的助推-补能跳跃滑翔轨迹优化方法_雍恩米-02.jpg
一种基于伪谱法的助推-补能跳跃滑翔轨迹优化方法_雍恩米-02.jpg
Mach10+
 

First Rafale in August

The first of the 26 maritime Rafale fighters that India has signed a Rs 60,000 crore deal for with France is expected to be here in August-September. The 26 Rafales are for the two aircraft-carriers, the INS Vikramaditya and the INS Vikrant. They will eventually replace the Russian MiG-29K fighters. India had acquired 46 MiGK fighters from Russia, six of them being trainers about two decades ago.
 

First Rafale in August

The first of the 26 maritime Rafale fighters that India has signed a Rs 60,000 crore deal for with France is expected to be here in August-September. The 26 Rafales are for the two aircraft-carriers, the INS Vikramaditya and the INS Vikrant. They will eventually replace the Russian MiG-29K fighters. India had acquired 46 MiGK fighters from Russia, six of them being trainers about two decades ago.

Not entirely sure about Rafales on Vikramaditya limited to just 1 lift. TEDBF will replace Mig-29s.
 

First Rafale in August

The first of the 26 maritime Rafale fighters that India has signed a Rs 60,000 crore deal for with France is expected to be here in August-September. The 26 Rafales are for the two aircraft-carriers, the INS Vikramaditya and the INS Vikrant. They will eventually replace the Russian MiG-29K fighters. India had acquired 46 MiGK fighters from Russia, six of them being trainers about two decades ago.

We signed only in 2024.. with so much of Dassault orders ahead of ours.

We ought begin delivery from 2029 ..

This is shocking news

@Picdelamirand-oil @Bon Plan
 
We signed only in 2024.. with so much of Dassault orders ahead of ours.

We ought begin delivery from 2029 ..

This is shocking news

@Picdelamirand-oil @Bon Plan
If you sign in 2024 the normal time for first delivery is 3 years later that is to say 2027 not 2029 which is an estimate from journalist. But if there is modifications that you ask for, Dassault need an early production of a development plane to test the new capacities : perhaps it's why Dassault produced one more Rafale that their guidance in 2025.