Shivalik Class (Project 17 A/B) & Talwar Class Frigates

[Speedster1]

There's a global trend towards modular trainable launchers capable of firing everything from decoys, point defence missiles, etc. In our case, we could probably squeeze in ASW rockets as a replacement for RBU-6000 imo. Don't know if this comes with below deck magazine for reloads though.

Naval Group MPLS launcher

 

[Gautam]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865655019120304528

 

[Fatalis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865655019120304528

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Finally a frigate with only VLS weapons. Sad to see the A-100M gun instead of SRGM.

 

[Adm_Kenobi]

It's not about the size of the ship, it's about production processes, quality assurance and standardisation. Replicating existing processes is easier than creating new ones from scratch. And creating a new one while building up on what you have experience with is much easier.



The new Talwars have VLS.

Shipborne medium-range air defence missile system with 9M317E and 9М317ME surface-to-air missiles Shtil-1 | Catalog Rosoboronexport

MissionThe Shtil-1 shipborne multi-channel medium-range air defence missile system (ADMS) is designed to provide all-round collective protection of naval groups and ship convoys, as well as individu...

roe.ru

The ship has all the capabilities we need.

The production process, quality assurance, and standardisation could have been learned through building NGMV/NGC, Talwar is an expensive platform which isn't worth the effort.
NGC will supercede Talwar in every way possible, at a cheaper rate. 4 extra Talwar at 21k crore isn't going to change much.

 

[randomradio]

The production process, quality assurance, and standardisation could have been learned through building NGMV/NGC, Talwar is an expensive platform which isn't worth the effort.
NGC will supercede Talwar in every way possible, at a cheaper rate. 4 extra Talwar at 21k crore isn't going to change much.

GSL doesn't have the ability to develop NGC/NGMV or compete with more established shipyards. That's why the nomination for Talwars. They will gain the capability after they are done with the Talwars.

 

[Ashwin]

INS Tushil commissioned into the Indian Navy by Defence Minister

 

[Speedster1]

She's probably fitted with Russian GTs. No way Ukraine's Zorya is sending any engines to Russia while the bombs still fall. Since the war started, I'd imagined India would tow the ships to Mazagon or GRSE for fitting out or that the deal would be scrapped but apparently not. More Russian-built hulls while private yards like L&T Kattupalli have proven they can churn out similar ships ahead of schedule. Great use of taxpayers money.

 

[Ashwin]

She's probably fitted with Russian GTs. No way Ukraine's Zorya is sending any engines to Russia while the bombs still fall. Since the war started, I'd imagined India would tow the ships to Mazagon or GRSE for fitting out or that the deal would be scrapped but apparently not. More Russian-built hulls while private yards like L&T Kattupalli have proven they can churn out similar ships ahead of schedule. Great use of taxpayers money.

Nope, Zorya-Mashproyekt shipped the engine to India then we transferred to Yantar Shipyard.

 

[marich01]

The commissioning ceremony of the INS Tushil frigate to the Indian Navy took place at the Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea.
Interestingly, the ship was originally intended to operate under the Russian flag.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1866115493444432128

India Commissions 7th Project 11356 frigate - INS Tushil - Naval News

The commissioning ceremony of the INS Tushil frigate to the Indian Navy took place at the Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Adm_Kenobi]

GSL doesn't have the ability to develop NGC/NGMV or compete with more established shipyards. That's why the nomination for Talwars. They will gain the capability after they are done with the Talwars

GRSE didn't have the capability to build ships like Nilgiri when it was nominated, it received assistance from MDL. We need not build some foreign ships to build capability.

 

[randomradio]

GRSE didn't have the capability to build ships like Nilgiri when it was nominated, it received assistance from MDL. We need not build some foreign ships to build capability.

GRSE has a long history of building corvettes and landing ships. Their experience cannot be compared to GSL's. Their move to a frigate was just a one-step jump, but GSL had to do it all from scratch since the last corvette they built was a generation ago, in the 90s.

Plus the IN needed the ships and GSL was the only available shipyard at the time. Or the initial plan was to directly import even the 2 ships they built. Parrikar also wanted a win for Goa.

 

[Speedster1]

GRSE has a long history of building corvettes and landing ships. Their experience cannot be compared to GSL's. Their move to a frigate was just a one-step jump, but GSL had to do it all from scratch since the last corvette they built was a generation ago, in the 90s

GSL designed and built 4 2000T+ Saryu class OPVs for the IN starting 2009. Building frigate class ships wouldn't have been much of a problem for them. For assistance with combat system integration, it would've been much easier for them to reach out to neighboring MDL than Yantar.

 

[Ashwin]

GSL designed and built 4 2000T+ Saryu class OPVs for the IN starting 2009. Building frigate class ships wouldn't have been much of a problem for them. For assistance with combat system integration, it would've been much easier for them to reach out to neighboring MDL than Yantar.

GSL only got the contract because the navy wanted the Talwar follow-on ships to be built in India, not the other way around. Original plan was 3 direct import.

 

[Speedster1]

GSL only got the contract because the navy wanted the Talwar follow-on ships to be built in India, not the other way around. Original plan was 3 direct import.

GRSE has a long history of building corvettes and landing ships. Their experience cannot be compared to GSL's. Their move to a frigate was just a one-step jump, but GSL had to do it all from scratch since the last corvette they built was a generation ago, in the 90s.

I get that. My point was GSL is no novice when it comes to building frigate-class ships. Had the MCMV deal with the Koreans panned out, perhaps this lame idea (of license producing a 1990s-era design over more modern, even if slightly expensive local ones at exorbitant cost) wouldn't have come to pass. Batch 1 Talwars are due for MLU anytime now. They'll be followed soon after by Batch-2.

I can't imagine we'd keep these brand new Batch-3 ships around for 15 years without replacing their antique radars which have blind spots as recent reports confirm. Ditto with the A-190M gun. The only saving grace is that the single arm SAM launcher is finally gone. End of rant.

 

[randomradio]

GSL designed and built 4 2000T+ Saryu class OPVs for the IN starting 2009. Building frigate class ships wouldn't have been much of a problem for them. For assistance with combat system integration, it would've been much easier for them to reach out to neighboring MDL than Yantar.

Neither MDL nor GRSE had the capacity to take on new projects. And they had their eyes set on bigger programs, which we know today to be P-17B.

And an OPV doesn't meet the criteria for a frigate-ready shipyard. Corvettes are much closer to that standard. Patrol boats and OPVs are the starter kit.

I get that. My point was GSL is no novice when it comes to building frigate-class ships. Had the MCMV deal with the Koreans panned out, perhaps this lame idea (of license producing a 1990s-era design over more modern, even if slightly expensive local ones at exorbitant cost) wouldn't have come to pass. Batch 1 Talwars are due for MLU anytime now. They'll be followed soon after by Batch-2.

I can't imagine we'd keep these brand new Batch-3 ships around for 15 years without replacing their antique radars which have blind spots as recent reports confirm. Ditto with the A-190M gun. The only saving grace is that the single arm SAM launcher is finally gone. End of rant.

Neither MCMVs nor OPVs are strictly combat ships like corvettes and higher. They are not designed to sustain battle damage to the same extent. You need to have certain experience with integrating sensors and weapons too.

 

[Ashwin]

My point was GSL is no novice when it comes to building frigate-class ships.

Actually, until recently, GSL didn't have the capability to build larger tonnage ships. I believe they still do not have a Goliath Crane for fully modular shipbuilding.

Also, you can't just assume the complexity of shipbuilding based on the tonnage alone.