Shivalik Class (Project 17 A/B) & Talwar Class Frigates

There's a global trend towards modular trainable launchers capable of firing everything from decoys, point defence missiles, etc. In our case, we could probably squeeze in ASW rockets as a replacement for RBU-6000 imo. Don't know if this comes with below deck magazine for reloads though.

Naval Group MPLS launcher
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It's not about the size of the ship, it's about production processes, quality assurance and standardisation. Replicating existing processes is easier than creating new ones from scratch. And creating a new one while building up on what you have experience with is much easier.



The new Talwars have VLS.


The ship has all the capabilities we need.
The production process, quality assurance, and standardisation could have been learned through building NGMV/NGC, Talwar is an expensive platform which isn't worth the effort.
NGC will supercede Talwar in every way possible, at a cheaper rate. 4 extra Talwar at 21k crore isn't going to change much.
 
The production process, quality assurance, and standardisation could have been learned through building NGMV/NGC, Talwar is an expensive platform which isn't worth the effort.
NGC will supercede Talwar in every way possible, at a cheaper rate. 4 extra Talwar at 21k crore isn't going to change much.

GSL doesn't have the ability to develop NGC/NGMV or compete with more established shipyards. That's why the nomination for Talwars. They will gain the capability after they are done with the Talwars.
 
She's probably fitted with Russian GTs. No way Ukraine's Zorya is sending any engines to Russia while the bombs still fall. Since the war started, I'd imagined India would tow the ships to Mazagon or GRSE for fitting out or that the deal would be scrapped but apparently not. More Russian-built hulls while private yards like L&T Kattupalli have proven they can churn out similar ships ahead of schedule. Great use of taxpayers money.
 
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She's probably fitted with Russian GTs. No way Ukraine's Zorya is sending any engines to Russia while the bombs still fall. Since the war started, I'd imagined India would tow the ships to Mazagon or GRSE for fitting out or that the deal would be scrapped but apparently not. More Russian-built hulls while private yards like L&T Kattupalli have proven they can churn out similar ships ahead of schedule. Great use of taxpayers money.
Nope, Zorya-Mashproyekt shipped the engine to India then we transferred to Yantar Shipyard.
 
The commissioning ceremony of the INS Tushil frigate to the Indian Navy took place at the Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea.
Interestingly, the ship was originally intended to operate under the Russian flag.


 
GSL doesn't have the ability to develop NGC/NGMV or compete with more established shipyards. That's why the nomination for Talwars. They will gain the capability after they are done with the Talwars
GRSE didn't have the capability to build ships like Nilgiri when it was nominated, it received assistance from MDL. We need not build some foreign ships to build capability.
 
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GRSE didn't have the capability to build ships like Nilgiri when it was nominated, it received assistance from MDL. We need not build some foreign ships to build capability.

GRSE has a long history of building corvettes and landing ships. Their experience cannot be compared to GSL's. Their move to a frigate was just a one-step jump, but GSL had to do it all from scratch since the last corvette they built was a generation ago, in the 90s.

Plus the IN needed the ships and GSL was the only available shipyard at the time. Or the initial plan was to directly import even the 2 ships they built. Parrikar also wanted a win for Goa.
 
GRSE has a long history of building corvettes and landing ships. Their experience cannot be compared to GSL's. Their move to a frigate was just a one-step jump, but GSL had to do it all from scratch since the last corvette they built was a generation ago, in the 90s
GSL designed and built 4 2000T+ Saryu class OPVs for the IN starting 2009. Building frigate class ships wouldn't have been much of a problem for them. For assistance with combat system integration, it would've been much easier for them to reach out to neighboring MDL than Yantar.
 
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GSL designed and built 4 2000T+ Saryu class OPVs for the IN starting 2009. Building frigate class ships wouldn't have been much of a problem for them. For assistance with combat system integration, it would've been much easier for them to reach out to neighboring MDL than Yantar.
GSL only got the contract because the navy wanted the Talwar follow-on ships to be built in India, not the other way around. Original plan was 3 direct import.
 
GSL only got the contract because the navy wanted the Talwar follow-on ships to be built in India, not the other way around. Original plan was 3 direct import.

GRSE has a long history of building corvettes and landing ships. Their experience cannot be compared to GSL's. Their move to a frigate was just a one-step jump, but GSL had to do it all from scratch since the last corvette they built was a generation ago, in the 90s.

I get that. My point was GSL is no novice when it comes to building frigate-class ships. Had the MCMV deal with the Koreans panned out, perhaps this lame idea (of license producing a 1990s-era design over more modern, even if slightly expensive local ones at exorbitant cost) wouldn't have come to pass. Batch 1 Talwars are due for MLU anytime now. They'll be followed soon after by Batch-2.

I can't imagine we'd keep these brand new Batch-3 ships around for 15 years without replacing their antique radars which have blind spots as recent reports confirm. Ditto with the A-190M gun. The only saving grace is that the single arm SAM launcher is finally gone. End of rant.
 
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GSL designed and built 4 2000T+ Saryu class OPVs for the IN starting 2009. Building frigate class ships wouldn't have been much of a problem for them. For assistance with combat system integration, it would've been much easier for them to reach out to neighboring MDL than Yantar.

Neither MDL nor GRSE had the capacity to take on new projects. And they had their eyes set on bigger programs, which we know today to be P-17B.

And an OPV doesn't meet the criteria for a frigate-ready shipyard. Corvettes are much closer to that standard. Patrol boats and OPVs are the starter kit.

I get that. My point was GSL is no novice when it comes to building frigate-class ships. Had the MCMV deal with the Koreans panned out, perhaps this lame idea (of license producing a 1990s-era design over more modern, even if slightly expensive local ones at exorbitant cost) wouldn't have come to pass. Batch 1 Talwars are due for MLU anytime now. They'll be followed soon after by Batch-2.

I can't imagine we'd keep these brand new Batch-3 ships around for 15 years without replacing their antique radars which have blind spots as recent reports confirm. Ditto with the A-190M gun. The only saving grace is that the single arm SAM launcher is finally gone. End of rant.

Neither MCMVs nor OPVs are strictly combat ships like corvettes and higher. They are not designed to sustain battle damage to the same extent. You need to have certain experience with integrating sensors and weapons too.
 
My point was GSL is no novice when it comes to building frigate-class ships.
Actually, until recently, GSL didn't have the capability to build larger tonnage ships. I believe they still do not have a Goliath Crane for fully modular shipbuilding.

Also, you can't just assume the complexity of shipbuilding based on the tonnage alone.
 

YARD 12707 (SURAT) AND YARD 12651 (NILGIRI) DELIVERED TO INDIAN NAVY​

Posted On: 20 DEC 2024 9:01PM by PIB Delhi


In a historic milestone for the country's Aatmanirbharta, journey, two warships, a destroyer (Surat) and a frigate (Nilgiri) were delivered to the Indian Navy on 20 Dec 24. The ships have been designed and constructed indigenously by the Warship Design Bureau of Indian Navy and M/s MDL, respectively. This is in keeping with the thrust, given by Government of India and the Indian Navy, on nation building through self-reliance. Simultaneous induction of two state-of-the-art men of war will significantly enhance the operational capabilities and combat readiness of the Indian Navy.

Yard 12707 (Surat), the fourth and final Project 15B stealth guided missile destroyer, follows in the wake of her predecessors IN Ships Visakhapatnam, Mormugao and Imphal commissioned in the past three years. The delivery of Surat culminates the iconic indigenous destroyer building project of the Indian Navy, which began with the Project 15 (three Delhi class, 1997-2001), followed by Project 15A (three Kolkata class, 2014-2016) and Project 15B (four Visakhapatnam class, 2021-2024). Being a guided missile destroyer with a displacement of 7,400 tons and an overall length of 164 meters, Surat is a potent and versatile platform equipped with state-of-the-art weapons and sensors, including surface-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles and torpedoes. Powered by a Combined Gas and Gas (COGAG) propulsion set, comprising four gas turbines, she has achieved speeds in excess of 30 knots (56 km/h) during her sea trials. It is also poised to be IN’s first Al enabled warship utilising indigenously developed Al solutions which would enhance its operational efficiency manifolds.

Yard 12651 (Nilgiri), the first Project 17A stealth frigate is a follow-on of the Shivalik class (Project 17) frigates active in service. Nilgiri is first among the seven P17A frigates under construction and MDL, Mumbai and GRSE, Kolkata. These multi-mission frigates are capable of operating in a ‘blue water’ environment dealing with both conventional and non-conventional threats in the area of India’s Maritime Interests. The newly designed ships are also being built using ‘Integrated Construction’ philosophy, which involves extensive pre-outfitting at the Block stages to reduce the overall build periods. The ships are powered by two Combined Diesel or Gas (CODOG) main propulsion plants, each comprising a Diesel Engine and Gas Turbine, driving a Controllable Pitch Propeller (CPP). The ships also have state- of-the-art Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS). The ships are fitted with supersonic surface-to-surface missile system, Medium Range Surface-to-Air Missiles system, 76 mm Upgraded Gun, and a combination of rapid-fire close-in weapon systems.

The delivery of the vessels showcases the nation's design, ship construction, engineering prowess and industrial know-how. The delivery also reinforces IN’s unrelenting focus on Aatmanirbharta in both ship design and shipbuilding. In keeping with the current thrust on nation building through self-reliance the vessels have 75% indigenisation content with orders on a myriad of indigenous firms including MSMEs (more than 200 in each shipyard). The projects have boosted self-reliance, economic development, employment generation, growth of MSMEs and ancillary ecosystem in the country.

The warships are fitted with major weapons and sensors sourced from indigenous OEMs, viz M/s BAPL, L&T, MTPF, M/s BEL, BHEL, Mahindra etc

Surat's keel was laid on 07 Nov 19 and was launched on 17 May 22. The ship has been delivered to the Indian Navy in 31 months from launch to delivery, making her the fastest indigenous destroyer ever built. The ship had commenced her Contractor Sea Trials on 15 Jun 24 and completed her Final Machinery Trials on 25 Nov 24, within an unprecedented record time of just six months.

Nilgiri’s keel was laid on 28 Dec 17 and the ship was launched into water on 28 Sep 19. The ship had sailed out for her maiden sea trials in Aug 24 and ever since, has undergone a comprehensive schedule of trials in harbour and at sea, leading up to its delivery now.

The balance six ships of the class are at various stages of construction at MDL, Mumbai and GRSE, Kolkata. These ships are expected to be delivered to IN in 2025 and 2026.