Small Arms & Tactical Equipment

[Ankit Kumar]

The supplementary procurement of SIG716 7.62x51 mm rifles had been abandoned following several "operational glitches" which had surfaced soon after they were issued to Indian Army units deployed along the Line of Control in Kashmir. https://t.co/onOe3fL25n

— The Wire (@thewire_in) May 4, 2022

2nd order cancelled.
According to industry officials, the “operational shortcomings” in the SIG716 rifles included “jamming” while firing locally produced 7.62 mm rounds, which were not as efficient as imported ammunition, of which limited amounts had initially been acquired but had since been expended.
fired, these local rounds reportedly, in many instances, tended to spawn “barrel bulges” that rendered many rifles inoperable. These bulges ensued after a round failed to exit the rifle upon firing and then the follow-on round built up tremendous pressure due to the constricted air inside the barrel, causing it, in turn, to either develop a bulge, cracks or even lead to it exploding altogether.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Good rifle + faulty 3rd grade ammo which African nations will not take in donation = problems

Solution: Cancel order for the good gun.

 

[R73 FTW]

Good rifle + faulty 3rd grade ammo which African nations will not take in donation = problems

Solution: Cancel order for the good gun.

Honestly this news doesn't make any goddamn sense to me. So they didn't had these problems earlier when it was test fired and then after which it was inducted even then no such problems were reported. I am sure if thewire's so-called "official" sources inform them about the problem now why they didn't do it a year back then? Honestly I always take any news coming out of thewire same as a smelly fart. I will wait for official confirmation

 

[KUNAL BISWAS]

Beretta also made such ridiculous claims, we all know how it ended, besides i have seen 9mm from carbines also M80 NATO fired by SIG without issues, keep in mind SLR and MMG use same round without any issues, SIG 716 during trail if ever happened is meant to use Indian ammo as other contenders did during trails in India..

 

[R73 FTW]

Beretta also made such ridiculous claims, we all know how it ended, besides i have seen 9mm from carbines also M80 NATO fired by SIG without issues, keep in mind SLR and MMG use same round without any issues, SIG 716 during trail if ever happened is meant to use Indian ammo as other contenders did during trails in India..

What was the case with Beretta?

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

We can use good old SLR and BREN LMGs

Or else buy new guns from SSS defence or the new 7.62 x 51 from OFB or NEGEV LMGs

OFB awaits Army nod for bulk production of 7.62x51mm assault rifles - The Statesman

The official added that “Board of Officers from the Ministry of Home Affairs had also conducted extensive trials of the assault rifle and termed it a reliable weapon which can be introduced with the paramilitary forces too.”

www.thestatesman.com

 

[R73 FTW]

The supplementary procurement of SIG716 7.62x51 mm rifles had been abandoned following several "operational glitches" which had surfaced soon after they were issued to Indian Army units deployed along the Line of Control in Kashmir. https://t.co/onOe3fL25n

— The Wire (@thewire_in) May 4, 2022

2nd order cancelled.
According to industry officials, the “operational shortcomings” in the SIG716 rifles included “jamming” while firing locally produced 7.62 mm rounds, which were not as efficient as imported ammunition, of which limited amounts had initially been acquired but had since been expended.
fired, these local rounds reportedly, in many instances, tended to spawn “barrel bulges” that rendered many rifles inoperable. These bulges ensued after a round failed to exit the rifle upon firing and then the follow-on round built up tremendous pressure due to the constricted air inside the barrel, causing it, in turn, to either develop a bulge, cracks or even lead to it exploding altogether.

Bit unrelated but goes to show thewire's (un)credibility

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Bit unrelated but goes to show thewire's (un)credibility View attachment 23682

Typo error

Navy has MARCOS
IAF has GARUDS

 

[vstol Jockey]

This whole debate about faulty ammo is bullshit. NATO countries have given repeat orders for India made ammo for 5.56x45 and that too in millions. If there was an issue with our locally made ammo, even those rifles in NATO countries should have faced same problem. But we got repeat orders. Does this not prove that the issue is with rifle and not with ammo.

 

[KUNAL BISWAS]

What was the case with Beretta?

You can also find detail about SIG..

 

[R73 FTW]

This whole debate about faulty ammo is bullshit. NATO countries have given repeat orders for India made ammo for 5.56x45 and that too in millions. If there was an issue with our locally made ammo, even those rifles in NATO countries should have faced same problem. But we got repeat orders. Does this not prove that the issue is with rifle and not with ammo.

I don't think there is any issue with either of them. We have seen numerous pics of IA troops carrying the weapon on LAC and LOC and that too with optical sights available to an entire fireteam. This article is just fake news unless MOD confirms the order is cancelled. But even then I wouldn't point out there's fault in either of them if the MOD doesn't state why they cancelled the order

 

[Aditya b7777]

This whole debate about faulty ammo is bullshit. NATO countries have given repeat orders for India made ammo for 5.56x45 and that too in millions. If there was an issue with our locally made ammo, even those rifles in NATO countries should have faced same problem. But we got repeat orders. Does this not prove that the issue is with rifle and not with ammo.

These orders for the US Civil market used Belgian gun powder for the ammunition exported. Retired PARA SF member Major Avinash Sahani on DFI(D F I) said that PARA SF used imported 5.56 NATO ammunition for their Tavors and M4s as the OFB made M193 ammunition was just unreliable and caused a lot of fouling in the guns.

Site Disclaimer

DS Arms is a quality firearms manufacturer specializing in the FAL Rifle, AR15 Rifle and RPD Rifle and latest parts & accessories

www.dsarms.com

 

[KUNAL BISWAS]

These orders for the US Civil market used Belgian gun powder for the ammunition exported. Retired PARA SF member Major Avinash Sahani on Other Forum(D F I) said that PARA SF used imported 5.56 NATO ammunition for their Tavors and M4s as the OFB made M193 ammunition was just unreliable and caused a lot of fouling in the guns.
View attachment 23685

Site Disclaimer

DS Arms is a quality firearms manufacturer specializing in the FAL Rifle, AR15 Rifle and RPD Rifle and latest parts & accessories

www.dsarms.com

Only during earlier days, i belive latter OFB ammunition was in use..

We imported ton of 5.56mm ammunition from Isreal along TAR21s..

 

[Hydra]

This whole debate about faulty ammo is bullshit. NATO countries have given repeat orders for India made ammo for 5.56x45 and that too in millions. If there was an issue with our locally made ammo, even those rifles in NATO countries should have faced same problem. But we got repeat orders. Does this not prove that the issue is with rifle and not with ammo.

If i am not wrong, that particular order is placed for civilian market.

 

[Lolwa]

Good rifle + faulty 3rd grade ammo which African nations will not take in donation = problems

Solution: Cancel order for the good gun.

Literal failed state behaviour. And ofb will continue to suck the blood of our soldiers and tax-payers.

If i am not wrong, that particular order is placed for civilian market.

The 5.56 uses belgian powder. The 7.62x51 uses ofb made powder. And ofb ammo is known to be overgassed and overpowdered with bad machining. Not surprising a delicate system like DI couldn't stand the absolut pos ammo produced by ofb.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

True level playing field to pvt sector can solve a few problems imo.

Literal failed state behaviour. And ofb will continue to suck the blood of our soldiers and tax-payers.

The 5.56 uses belgian powder. The 7.62x51 uses ofb made powder. And ofb ammo is known to be overgassed and overpowdered with bad machining. Not surprising a delicate system like DI couldn't stand the absolut pos ammo produced by ofb.

 

[Lolwa]

View attachment 23683

You can also find detail about SIG..

Berreta is a known offender. And there's a huge Italian lobby thanks to Mrs. maino

 

[Lolwa]

True level playing field to pvt sector can solve a few problems imo.

The Pvt sector can easily replace the ofb and will offer hardware at a cheaper price with far better quality. Ofb is just a subsidy program for the poor and reservation class.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

The Pvt sector can easily replace the ofb and will offer hardware at a cheaper price with far better quality. Ofb is just a subsidy program for the poor and reservation class.

Like if the forces wanted a 7.62x39 rifle, before awarding it to a government entity , maybe it would have been a better idea to run it by pvt cos first.

Even if the local solution wasn't good, who knows maybe a locally produced IWI 7.62x39 platform would have won ?

 

[Lolwa]

Like if the forces wanted a 7.62x39 rifle, before awarding it to a government entity , maybe it would have been a better idea to run it by pvt cos first.

Even if the local solution wasn't good, who knows maybe a locally produced IWI 7.62x39 platform would have won ?

Going for the ak 203 wasn't a bad idea. You can't make a better ak than the Russians and we never had proper tooling to make ak's unlike the Chinese who got it in the 50's. But atleast for carbine and battle rifle a local solution could have been easily offered. That's the biggest blunder.