South Korea offers Australia new subs to close Collins gap

BMD

BMD

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There are going to be a lot of stories
What conventional sub gap? The last Collins LOTE will be in the water till 2048 and some hulls may get a second LOTE.

Then there are other weapon systems
Vice Adm. Johnston: ..the first around the general capability of Defence
and the ADF in particular. Of course we have continued to enhance each of the capabilities that are available in the naval force, the air elements and the land capability. All of those continue to be improved. There are large projects, like the nuclear submarine—the Hunter class—that will come to further enhance the force. But the capability delivery of the current force is not static. The Anzac frigates are a good example of platforms that have continued to be enhanced. The Collins class submarine similarly has continued to be enhanced. The Joint Strike Fighters are entering the force—

There is no certainty that there is any capability gap, so it depends on the time frame for delivery of the submarine— and all the other enhancements that are entering into the force: the type of capability that submarines deliver; intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; the strike capabilities.

All of those are also being enhanced in other parts of the Defence Force that provide additional capability. It's that we have other capabilities and we are bringing the nuclear submarine into service as early as possible.
Vice Adm. Johnston: Nor does it mean that there is a capability gap.
 
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Optimist said:
There are going to be a lot of stories
What conventional sub gap? The last Collins LOTE will be in the water till 2048 and some hulls may get a second LOTE.

Then there are other weapon systems
Vice Adm. Johnston: ..the first around the general capability of Defence
and the ADF in particular. Of course we have continued to enhance each of the capabilities that are available in the naval force, the air elements and the land capability. All of those continue to be improved. There are large projects, like the nuclear submarine—the Hunter class—that will come to further enhance the force. But the capability delivery of the current force is not static. The Anzac frigates are a good example of platforms that have continued to be enhanced. The Collins class submarine similarly has continued to be enhanced. The Joint Strike Fighters are entering the force—

There is no certainty that there is any capability gap, so it depends on the time frame for delivery of the submarine— and all the other enhancements that are entering into the force: the type of capability that submarines deliver; intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; the strike capabilities.

All of those are also being enhanced in other parts of the Defence Force that provide additional capability. It's that we have other capabilities and we are bringing the nuclear submarine into service as early as possible.
Vice Adm. Johnston: Nor does it mean that there is a capability gap.
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A capability gap is formed when a potential adversary is climbing in numbers and technology while others stagnate. Pushing the life of the Collins serves just one-half of the purpose, the other half is technology, and that's not something the Collins can necessarily provide.
 
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So you accept that you know nothing. That is a start. The Aussies know the Collins and decided a LOTE would be better. Even though they are a similar cost.
 
Optimist said:
So you accept that you know nothing. That is a start. The Aussies know the Collins and decided a LOTE would be better. Even though they are a similar cost.
Click to expand...

But we are not discussing my opinion, we are discussing the Korean govt's opinion.
 
Who cares about conventional sub offers from other countries? Australia doesn't and if we did, we would have continued with the french sub.

Regardless of the articles, ADF say there isn't a capability gap, as stated in an above post. Who do you want to believe?
 
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Optimist said:
Who cares about conventional sub offers from other countries? Australia doesn't and if we did, we would have continued with the french sub.
Click to expand...

I suppose the problem is "French" rather than "SSK". America doesn't like their allies buying French stuff.

Optimist said:
Regardless of the articles, ADF say there isn't a capability gap, as stated in an above post. Who do you want to believe?
Click to expand...

As long as it goes through, the first LOTE delivery is expected in 2028, with life extended to 2038. The last sub will exit in 2048. Which means, by 2042, 3 subs will be gone, ie, an interval of every 2 years. And that means you need to start planning its replacement today.

There's no guarantee you will get your first SSN by then. Even if you did, it will still require years to actually operate at the level necessary. So the hole the Collins' retirement will create will still have to be filled in by another sub.

So, the way it goes, if you decide to go for Korean SSKs and produce them at home, you will need 2-3 years for a contract, then about 10 years to get the first sub commissioned. That's 2035. Then you get 2-3 years before you get the sub ready, basically FOC, by which time you would have taken delivery of the second sub. So, by 2038-40, while the first 2 Collins are gone, you will have replacements operational already.

You can make do with 3-4 new Korean subs to replace 3-4 LOTE Collins. Post which SSNs will start coming in to give you the numbers necessary.

You also have to consider the risks involved, like the SSN program could fail.

Australia needs both SSKs and SSNs. Frankly, Australia needs a real navy. Australia needs the ability to match at least one of China's three main fleets. So you can imagine the kind of numbers necessary.
 
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randomradio said:
I suppose the problem is "French" rather than "SSK". America doesn't like their allies buying French stuff.
Click to expand...
Nonsense, that was just a French excuse. You hear the same after they lose a fighter comp or any other comp for that matter..It is their standard response, except if they win, then it's because it was a fair comp and chose the best:)
randomradio said:
As long as it goes through, the first LOTE delivery is expected in 2028, with life extended to 2038. The last sub will exit in 2048. Which means, by 2042, 3 subs will be gone, ie, an interval of every 2 years. And that means you need to start planning its replacement today.

There's no guarantee you will get your first SSN by then. Even if you did, it will still require years to actually operate at the level necessary. So the hole the Collins' retirement will create will still have to be filled in by another sub.

So, the way it goes, if you decide to go for Korean SSKs and produce them at home, you will need 2-3 years for a contract, then about 10 years to get the first sub commissioned. That's 2035. Then you get 2-3 years before you get the sub ready, basically FOC, by which time you would have taken delivery of the second sub. So, by 2038-40, while the first 2 Collins are gone, you will have replacements operational already.

You can make do with 3-4 new Korean subs to replace 3-4 LOTE Collins. Post which SSNs will start coming in to give you the numbers necessary.

You also have to consider the risks involved, like the SSN program could fail.

Australia needs both SSKs and SSNs. Frankly, Australia needs a real navy. Australia needs the ability to match at least one of China's three main fleets. So you can imagine the kind of numbers necessary
Click to expand...
As I said there may be a second LOTE for some hulls. You also may misunderstand how many subs are active and how many are in refit after an active deployment. There can be one or two active and the others in refit.

We will not get any Korean or any other, time for a new story from you. Tell me more about what we need to do to match china. I didn't realise that was our goal.
 
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Optimist said:
Nonsense, that was just a French excuse. You hear the same after they lose a fighter comp or any other comp for that matter..It is their standard response, except if they win, then it's because it was a fair comp and chose the best:)
Click to expand...

No, the US has a history of actively sabotaging French deals.

Optimist said:
As I said there may be a second LOTE for some hulls. You also may misunderstand how many subs are active and how many are in refit after an active deployment. There can be one or two active and the others in refit.
Click to expand...

A second LOTE? Good luck with that. Just so you know, the current LOTE alone will push the lead sub past 40 years.

Optimist said:
We will not get any Korean or any other, time for a new story from you. Tell me more about what we need to do to match china. I didn't realise that was our goal.
Click to expand...

Forget a matching fleet, the Australian Navy actually wanted to believe that they could fight China with their existing fleet, the US had to bring them down to earth again.

I had pointed this out in an earlier thread, but if the Americans believe Australia can be abandoned for the purpose of the bigger picture, it will be done. So you're going to have to create a force structure that caters to such an eventuality. Basically make yourself important so the US is willing to go out of its way to protect Australia even when they are at a disadvantage. Dead weights will be abandoned.
 
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randomradio said:
@Amarante

There you go. Would be a good idea.
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🙏

It will never be as quiet as if it was pump-jet propelled.

But i have good ideas too: if i was the RAN, i’d ask for some spec. improvements:

- The LM combat system integration

- Those conventional Hyunmoo IV-4 slbm are for k-pop queers. Real bushmen use Trident II

- Subs made in Adelaide

And because the aussies worth it:
- SLAMs!


Anyway, they can choose any sub they want: je m’en bats les steaks (is french for “i don’t care anymore” *).

—
* words. thx for the “ping”.
 
BMD said:
www.abc.net.au

Australia prepares to unveil AUKUS nuclear submarine plans in the United States

Anthony Albanese is expected to detail Australia's preferred nuclear submarine option on American soil next month, alongside US President Joe Biden and his British counterpart Rishi Sunak – raising the prospect of a potential new boat design involving all three allies.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
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What's this bit of news doing in this thread Paddy ? As usual drunk at 6 in the evening taking Guinness instead of tea , aren't we ?
 
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