India is too big to ever be moved from the path it will take. Naturally.
It can and has been shaken from time to time.
But eventually it swallows.
Woh gatak jaati hai ...
Cheers, Doc
News The 15th Finance Commission May Split Open Demographic Fault Lines Between South and North India
- Thread starter Infowarrior
- Start date
India is too big to ever be moved from the path it will take. Naturally.
It can and has been shaken from time to time.
But eventually it swallows.
Woh gatak jaati hai ...
Cheers, Doc
One school of historians has it that the communal element in modern India, as distinct from mediaeval India, was re-ignited by the British, perhaps inadvertently, due to their sheer ignorance of Indian society, and their concurrent need to find out how to administer this society.
Whether it was William Carey at the Fort William College, charging into vernacular languages with the help of Brahmin scholars learned in Sanskrit, or William Wilson Hunter, writing his definitive but tragically flawed "The Indian Musalmans: Are They Bound In Conscience To Rebel Against The Queen?", or H. H. Risley, writing the monumental "The Tribes and Castes of Bengal", one reads their work with divided feelings: one is in the presence of a Titan, and simultaneously, one realises with a thrill of horror the injection into Indian society of the viral strains that cause most of the diseases of society today.
There is nothing that I know of William Carey's work that is readable today, other than for very narrow-band research, but his dependence on Brahmins for defining, codifying and conducting etymological studies into, for instance, Bengali created a massive split within the community. It has been argued that the increasing influence of Arabic and right-to-left scripts on Bengali as it originally was, or the neglect of the 'puthi', or the complete dependence on the Nadia dialect for a template for standard Bengali disenfranchised the bulk of the Bengali-speaking people, a condition that is being reversed in Bangladesh, but naturally does not fill a West Bengali's heart with much joy. This by itself is a complex subject and would with minimal effort yield an MPhil at the least; with some serious effort, a PhD or ten.
I read Hunter when I was naive (even more than I am today) only conscious of standing in the presence of a significant trans-cultural personality. Reading him after 30 years, the damage that he did, and that other British administrator-scholars did to Indian society is starkly visible. If you like, this was the genesis of Pakistan. If you can get your hands on it, read the book. It is scary, but instructive.
Risley's book was the love of my life in my teens. We had two of his four volumes at home, and it was SUCH FUN to memorise the matching algorithms for Kayasthas to be paired for marriage; it took specialists and covered eight or ten pages in his book, perhaps more; I forget. It defined who could marry whom, down to the seventh son and seventh daughter, and including Kulin Kayasthas, those of superior descent compared to others, normally a category linked to Brahmins, and also a category that led to hundreds of child brides being murdered by enforced suttee.
At the time, it was fun. But reading about his methods of race-classification through physical anthropometry brought the awful realisation that this was a racist of a high degree of sophistication. I hate to mention this, but his wife, an 'erudite German', is an obvious suspect. Nobody may have maimed Indian social analysis as gravely as Risley. His classification of Indians into 'races', his use of the nasal index to determine 'race', his absurd sample sizes, useful only to the extent that they yielded data to support his theoretical architecture, his interpretations of the Census, that made them the subjects of avid study by scholars throughout the world - there is a succession of grenades with the pins taken out in his work.
By the time that Jinnah and Nehru and our own muddle-headed Mahatma came on the scene, the bulk of the intellectual damage had been done. British colonial thinking, therefore responses to this thinking, therefore the nationalist movement, in some respects formed as a pure anti-thesis to the theses of the British and their thinking, were all implacably in place, and are being pried loose only in the last few decades.
You might look at your post once again, and track how what you said reflects a reality so heavily influenced by these almost unknown scholars and administrators. I am referring to an ideological reality.
Heh.
Sorry but your analysis is inaccurate because of insufficient information, insufficient data. Look up the freight equalisation policy.
In all ages and times, we tend to extrapolate our current state of being to times past.
Partially correct.
The ideological centre (since when did you become a Yank?) always was Maharashtra. But the presence of the Maratha lobby and their dominance of the countryside through their control of the sugar cooperatives made it difficult for the RSS to penetrate the countryside. If you notice, the RSS strongholds in Maharashtra are in Nagpur, Pune and to some extent, as permitted, in Mumbai. If you look at Gujarat, they have been indoctrinated for three generations, the Congress has gradually withered away, and lost the major power-base of the patidar community years before, trusting the elusive coalition that they created, and that is why Gujarat is the first fascist state in the country.
There will be more. Fairly soon.
Worry about Bengal, Comrade Joe.
I think I'd stop engaging you anymore for the simple reason that I've my hands full with my brain dead underlings . I just wanted to prove you're similar to my employees . You helped me do that , Mr Yoni . I can't handle fools on two fronts . All the best to you Mr. Yoni . Toodles.
Maratha are very clear in their minds Joe.
Very clear.
There is going to be some serious a.ss kicking very soon. Especially after the unnecessary finger pointing in Bhima Koregaon.
As you would know, there has always been a difference between those who fight, and those who skulk.
And who they fight and what they fight for.
Cheers, Doc
stop splitting Indians as Muslim or Hindu or North or South - the union govt is trying to give equitable distribution for every India. period.
I do accept it. British left India with 4 metros. Every state had some reasons to grow. GoI invested in Bangalore in 60's and 70's seeing Madras was saturated then. When I say TN state is getting destroyed by ADMK for last 5-6 years I can blame only Tamilians. We deserve it for electing those jokers. If TN becomes poor tomo then its us for to blame. not any other state or central government.
Even if I accept to ur proposal, there should be a deadline for free money. Why should we fund them for a money for which we or Central government have no say? If they can spend as per their wish then y should rich states fund them?
C'mon sis. Even Kanchi and Madurai in South was a centre of learning, got destroyed by the Khiljis. Its the failure of their people and respective corrupt state governments. We had only Madras as a city in South during British times. Later Bangalore, Hyd, Cochin, Thiruvandram, Coimbatore, Mysore has emerged. Infact the new cities have surpassed Kolkata, Lucknow etc.
I am not saying breaking up of Union of India. That much I dont have even 0.1% of thoughts. My nation and my brothers are supreme. But internally there must be a much better way to govern money. And punishing good performing states is not the way to promote good governance.
Some people conveniently forget the massacres that happens under communists rule. Fair enough reports about Stalin and Lenin came about only in the end stages of USSR. And trophies in Commies cupboards in WB are dust cleaned and discussed showing their barbarity for 30 years in Indian context.
He wont be there, rest assured.
The only ones to worry is You and Me and our Next generation.
These people made it uninhabitable for rest of us Hindus, and still talk about Sickularism,? Bravo!
'Numai Tovarishchi Bongobashi, toate este si la fel de pui pentru Communiste'( Only Comrade Bongobashi is what matters, rest of Bengali Hindus are chicken for slaughter on the altar of Communism)
What will this guy suggest is for rest of HIndus to bow and not fight back,die , Remember, he gets upset when you talk about other religions,get my point.
That is the problem with team work. The team is only as strong as the weakest link.
So for the Team to succeed, the weakest link will always get more time and effort when compared to stronger players.
As far as I know states like UP, WB were richer than TN, Kerala, Ktka n AP in 1960's and early 70's. TN had Madras a developed city. Fine. The other states didnt. Now its not the fault of SI or the central government some states grew poor. Its cos of the poor management and poor people selected by the respective states.
Now how are we supposed to be responsible when states elect inept leaders. Have seen some people making fun SI elect film stars. Fine, but they have delivered.
The weakest link till now get more funds from strongest link. The question is how long it should continue. Nor have we got any say in how the weakest links spends its money.
However if the central govt compensates by starting its industries, starting industrial corridors more here then its fine. It does do. But population based commission will reduce our quota of money for TN people's development purpose.
The north which bore the brunt of the Islamic invasion and British induced famine was neither richer than the south, nor more educated nor did it have any institutions worth its name. So they did whatever they had to, to survive.
Who are you to grudge them their decisions ?
India has chosen the parliamentary system of governance and we all suffer and gain under that system. Propose a better model and then we can talk. Otherwise its pointless to complain.
Population is one of the most important criteria for spending money and in a joint family if someone has more than one child, then naturally they will end more food than someone with one child. Again how can someone with a conscious grudge them that child ?
You do not address the real issue of incentivising incompetent behaviour.
Please address that. It is a fair complaint.
In a family when you have children who behave badly or adults who behave badly, how do you correct it ? By behaving well and setting an example for others to follow.
One can also set ground rules for social behavior, but for correcting personal behavior, that can only come through self enlightenment and balance which comes with time.
Societies need a critical mass to break free to destructive behavior. This is a combination of education, law and order, ease of living, social fairness etc. Once this is reached, the society will move up the trajectory faster than before. I am confident that such a critical mass has been achieved by Indian society on the whole.
To put it bluntly, there is no substitute for Nobel thought and behavior. Alternative is the bitch and whine.
I disagree. There is a need to incentivise states to show improvement. Your family example, irrelevant for federal government, also does not have enough data. No family gives more money to a drunkard, but surely to someone who is unwell. Thats being noble in thought as well as behaviour. There has to be clear distinction between genuine needs and entitled wasteful behaviour. Those checks and balances should be built into the system.
Seeking accountability and a progressive system is our duty, not bitching and whining.
There is checks and balance in the system and also accountability if the system is implemented without bias.
There is a Law called "Fiscal Responsibility and Budget Management Act, 2003 (FRBMA)" that regulates revenue deficit by setting annual targets for reduction, reduction of annual fiscal deficit and targets for assuming contingent liabilities in the form of guarantees and the total liabilities as a percentage of the GDP.
Moreover 5 states - Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala, Uttar Pradesh and Punjab had already adopted the Fiscal Responsibility Legislation (FRL) ahead of the Centre’s law.
After the law was passed, we can see that the fiscal deficits fell by almost half: from an average of 4.1 per cent of GSDP to 2.4 per cent of GSDP.
TN themselves have gone against the Supreme court guidelines that limits state prepoll sops by implementing the Amma Two-Wheeler Scheme (50% rebate on the price of two wheeler for women working in TN).
AP under CBN has to set aside money for unemployment doles and is now begging the Center for More money.
In fact the 14th Finance Commission REMOVED the 17.5% Fiscal discipline criteria from the Revenue share formula because it was impractical and did not allow for flexibility in dealing with state problems.
Finally to compare a democratically elected responsible govt. and a responsible bureaucracy to a "drunkard" reduces any discussion Farcical.
No one have been more sympathetic to the North bearing brunt to Invasions and no is disagreeing there. The last islamic rule in north was in 1730's. That's 300 odd years. When the British left India they left high and dry. There was no distinction btw South and North in that. Famine was induced in Bengal. Infact present day Bangladesh bore more brunt than present day Gangetic plains.
The question is how long states will give those useless complaints and excuses. The current MP ratio was based on 1 mp per million and was frozen in 1971. TN for ex has 39 or 39m population in 1971. WB had 42m. UP had 80m. Now lets compare the population ratio.
TN has 75m, UP has 220m and WB 95m. Mulayam and Lalu want to increase parliament size so such states can have better representations. That's another issue. Second UP, Bihar, WB has Ganga running through them. Its a perennial river for God's sake. Why do the govt need to waive loans? Cos they didnt provide adequate infrastructure for storing, transportation and collecting grains. Who is to blame? FYI SI has provided better infrastructure and no water.
Third even if I accept to ur arguement, rich brothers helping others in a family, even my own brother wont help me for eternity. When he gets married he has his family, kids to take care off. He cant destroy his life for the sake of his over-age brother. As I said, good performing states cannot be penalised for bad performing states. If you want to still give money for bad performing states, then other states should have a say on how that money is being spent by one particular state. Its not my problem if the people in the north dont elect good leaders. Its the people's wish they had elected inaptitudes like Mulayam (my blood boils when people call him Nethaji) and Lalu.
Not to say BJP leaders have been particularly wow. UP is fine till now. Its the people to blame. Southern states have been sharing the burden for the last 20 years now. So how long u think one continue?