The Truth Hurts, Says Indian Navy’s 1st Dhruv Flight Commander

The analogy doesn't work in aerospace systems. If for example Tomorrow, India doesn't have a single indigenous manufacturer of automobiles but has practically all foreign majors set up shop here to design, assemble, manufacture, etc - preferably all three, it'd be a strategic setback to us on a different magnitude.

What you are suggesting in this case is trial & error. That's what the GoI had in mind when it threw open the defense production ecosystem to pvt entities. The dilemma it faces are two fold. How do we reduce dependance on imports & get out of the vice like grip of the DPSU's without compromising our strategic autonomy? The pvt sector welcomed this move by looking at the low hanging fruits essentially JVs with foreign OEMs to assemble in India with some token nods to MII. I suspect there wasn't any more to the moves by such pvt entities which is why the GoI is caught on the horns of a dilemma. Indigenization would mean what Bharat Forget has undertaken. They've spent money from their own pocket to support acquisitions of OEMs besides developing products on their own without any commitment from the armed forces which raises another important question - to what extent does one subsidise such efforts & more importantly how does one qualify such entities for such support? The policies regarding this are again fluid with not much scope for clarity or solidity at the moment. You've also the example of L& T at their shipyard at Katupally which is yet to break even though they've given a good account of themselves. Another example is L&T's JV for Vajra. Once the quota for production of the howitzers ends, they'd have to shut shop.

We can't afford to take the same path in aerospace manufacturing without having a working indigenous aerosystem ecosystem alternative to HAL . How does one develop it is the crux of the debate? There are no easy answers or solutions.
How can you maintain strategic autonomy by producing LCA, LCH and Arjun when every critical subsystem is an outright import. If today U.S.A. stops GE or France to dafrane to stop the sale of engines to HAL , whole Indegenous manufacturing of HAL will vanish within a year. Even after spending huge sum for importing subsystems, the product is inferior to what available in international market.
Do you seriously think PSUs can help us develop industries ? Any example to support such claim?
Btw Designing and developing modern automobiles is not a small feat. And things like tanks and APC are not much high tech products.
Can any PSU have capability to design and develop something like Tata Nexon or Harrier or Hornbill ??
Not so long ago even tractors weee considered strategic asset. That’s why only HMT was licences to built Zetor (chezko Slovakian)Copies at exhorbitent price in the name of indigenous manufacturing.
Its only after Mahindra started licence producing International Harvester models, that braught India into the tractor manufacturing Industry.
Same is true for Tata with its licence production of Mercedes lorries.
Its how most of the industries develop.
Nothing special about any defence industry.
Just compare the progress of HMT with that of Mahindra and Tata. All start in same fashion. HMT continued to produce same crap until 2000 when Govt has decided enough is enough and shut the shop. Meanwhile M&M and Tata built on what they have and we have two truly international industry (Tractor and CVs)
 
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How can you maintain strategic autonomy by producing LCA, LCH and Arjun when every critical subsystem is an outright import. If today U.S.A. stops GE or France to dafrane to stop the sale of engines to HAL , whole Indegenous manufacturing of HAL will vanish within a year. Even after spending huge sum for importing subsystems, the product is inferior to what available in international market.
Do you seriously think PSUs can help us develop industries ? Any example to support such claim?
Btw Designing and developing modern automobiles is not a small feat. And things like tanks and APC are not much high tech products.
Can any PSU have capability to design and develop something like Tata Nexon or Harrier or Hornbill ??
Not so long ago even tractors weee considered strategic asset. That’s why only HMT was licences to built Zetor (chezko Slovakian)Copies at exhorbitent price in the name of indigenous manufacturing.
Its only after Mahindra started licence producing International Harvester models, that braught India into the tractor manufacturing Industry.
Same is true for Tata with its licence production of Mercedes lorries.
Its how most of the industries develop.
Nothing special about any defence industry.
Just compare the progress of HMT with that of Mahindra and Tata. All start in same fashion. HMT continued to produce same crap until 2000 when Govt has decided enough is enough and shut the shop. Meanwhile M&M and Tata built on what they have and we have two truly international industry (Tractor and CVs)
I don't think you've understood what I wanted to convey.

My response was primarily against calls to shut down HAL & the dilemmas the GoI is facing w.r.t a moribund DPSU ecosystem that it doesn't like but has to persist with & on the other hand the import lobby that it can't survive with as opposed to can't survive without in the long term.

Between the devil & the deep blue sea is the alternative of the SP of which the GoI isn't sure of delivering in the long term & emerging as a robust alternative to the existing DPSU ecosystem irrespective of what it delivers in the short term at least as far as cutting edge systems like the aerospace industry goes.
 
I don't think you've understood what I wanted to convey.

My response was primarily against calls to shut down HAL & the dilemmas the GoI is facing w.r.t a moribund DPSU ecosystem that it doesn't like but has to persist with & on the other hand the import lobby that it can't survive with as opposed to can't survive without in the long term.

Between the devil & the deep blue sea is the alternative of the SP of which the GoI isn't sure of delivering in the long term & emerging as a robust alternative to the existing DPSU ecosystem irrespective of what it delivers in the short term at least as far as cutting edge systems like the aerospace industry goes.
You cant put PSUs on life support for too long. Eventually you have to pull the plug.

They are too diseased to survive for long. In case on non critical industries like Air India BSNL and HMT keeping them alive was costly only in terms of finance but in defence Industry it can cost us much more. War with China and pakistan are around the corner. And DPSUs are our weakest link. In any conflict PSUs start strikes and let us down at very critical times.
BTW I agree with you to the point that it cant be done suddenly. We have to nurture alternate Pvt companies before doing divestment in PSUs. But I seriously think Govt should shut down the OFBs first.
HAL is still doing ok. Maybe something like partial divestment can do better in case of HAL.
 
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You cant put PSUs on life support for too long. Eventually you have to pull the plug.

They are too diseased to survive for long. In case on non critical industries like Air India BSNL and HMT keeping them alive was costly only in terms of finance but in defence Industry it can cost us much more. War with China and pakistan are around the corner. And DPSUs are our weakest link. In any conflict PSUs start strikes and let us down at very critical times.
Your previous argument on what's the point of developing the LCA, Arjun etc is pretty vacuous to say the least when most of its components or vital sub systems if not principal systems are all imported. These are the kind of arguments we often see in PDF & if this is the line of thinking why bother with having an indigenous industry? Let's invite all & sundry to make weapons in India, permit them 100% ownership after due investments , insist on them being export driven much like our auto industry, do away with Technical set offs & content ourselves with the fact that technical knowledge & know how notwithstanding all these items are MII & eventually if there's a potential pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in that if a few Indian companies manage to get some traction thru such JVs & end up setting up their own indigenous manufacturing plants churning out fully indigenous designed & developed products, we can consider our li'l experiment successful.
 
Your previous argument on what's the point of developing the LCA, Arjun etc is pretty vacuous to say the least when most of its components or vital sub systems if not principal systems are all imported. These are the kind of arguments we often see in PDF & if this is the line of thinking why bother with having an indigenous industry? Let's invite all & sundry to make weapons in India, permit them 100% ownership after due investments , insist on them being export driven much like our auto industry, do away with Technical set offs & content ourselves with the fact that technical knowledge & know how notwithstanding all these items are MII & eventually if there's a potential pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in that if a few Indian companies manage to get some traction thru such JVs & end up setting up their own indigenous manufacturing plants churning out fully indigenous designed & developed products, we can consider our li'l experiment successful.
We were talking about “strategic autonomy”. Don’t divert the topic. And I’m just telling you the realities. What some Degenerates think doesn’t bothers me.
The DPSU model has failed India.


That’s why I said its hard to tell which is more indegenpus a HMT tractor (poor Zetor copy made in Indian PSU) or a New Holland (made entirely in India)

IMHO the Auto sector Model looked better to me. We need not just Aviation industry but a Competent Aviation Industry which can adapt to chanding demands of civil and military customers.
 
We were talking about “strategic autonomy”. Don’t divert the topic. And I’m just telling you the realities. What some Degenerates think doesn’t bothers me.
The DPSU model has failed India.


That’s why I said its hard to tell which is more indegenpus a HMT tractor (poor Zetor copy made in Indian PSU) or a New Holland (made entirely in India)

IMHO the Auto sector Model looked better to me. We need not just Aviation industry but a Competent Aviation Industry which can adapt to chanding demands of civil and military customers.
Pls define strategic autonomy then. At least we'd know if we're on the same page or our definitions differ & if it's the latter to see the degree to which it differs for if it's a gulf then there's no point discussing it.
 
What happens to strategic autonomy? Have any of you given a thought to that? The aviation industry is unlike the auto industry irrespective of the analogy being offered in the OP. If Dassault sets up a factory in India in partnership with Reliance to manufacture Falcon or the Rafale in part or in full, who does the IPR rest with?
Tomm, one can extend this example to LM- Tata, Mahindra Airbus, etc. What we will have are world class quality products made in India, perhaps even designed in India, in part or full, but does India or by extension an Indian company control the IPR to these products? What does that do for our strategic autonomy.In seeking a solution, You've merely replaced one bad problem for another.


Those advocating winding up HAL are throwing the baby along with the bathwater. Like the OFB, HAL & other DPSU's needs reform - autonomy, corporatisation, divestment, privatisation - not necessarily sold to a pvt company, but an organization like the NTPC which is a fully autonomous , professional organization capable of standing on its own & competing with the world's best in the biz & a navratna.

The trained manpower can be used elsewhere. Right now, our private sector only has the ability to do subcontracted work. They do not yet have the expertise to build an entire aircraft.

Foreign companies will bring in production expertise, which in turn can be used in indigenous programs. For example, DRAL will train Reliance's manpower to build aircraft, and then Reliance can use that experience to compete for the production rights for AMCA in the future. AMCA will be built elsewhere, without Dassault's involvement.

Only an experienced manufacturer can work with an experienced designer to make aircraft. Now, we have an experienced designer in the form of ADA, but the only choice for an experienced manufacturer today is HAL, since only they have the manpower with the capability to build an entire aircraft. In time, we will get more experienced manufacturers in the form of TATA, Reliance, Mahindra, Dynamatics, Bharat Forge etc. But they need to get started with license production first, just like how HAL did it.

70% of LCA Mk1A will be manufactured by the private industry. So a huge chunk of the capability expected from the manufacturers already exists. Now they need experience in integration, factory testing, acceptance etc.

The IPR issue is moot, we have the ability to create our own IPR already.
 
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I don’t have a clue what to call indigenous and what’s foreign. Even design of LCH was with the help of foreign firm. Not to mention all the critical equipments like engine, avionics,munitions etc.
LCA and Arjun too are similar cases.

Its better go too much into it.

Yes we need autonomy. But we need to develop an Industry first. Indian PSU failed to do do. And we need to break the monopoly of PSUs.

The airframe and flight controls are indigenous. And the OP's article mainly highlight design deficiencies in the airframe and flight controls.
 
ADA would own it. It'd still remain in India.
ADA will own Rafale IPR ? 🤷‍♂️ Do they hold Su-30 IPR also? Are you assuming screwdriver giri comes with IPR?

Are you suggesting development of the ATAGS to be on par with the development of say an LCA or an AMCA along with the entire ecosystem to go with it.
ADA already suggested it. They want AMCA TD to build inhouse.
It primarily means you don't have to depend on critical items on anybody ever. That involves the development of all such items in house failing which you diversify your imports such that you aren't dependant on any one entity's whims & fancies.
Nicely rephrased. Then what was your point on 'strategic autonomy' again?
 
ADA will own Rafale IPR ? 🤷‍♂️ Do they hold Su-30 IPR also? Are you assuming screwdriver giri comes with IPR?

Was referring to LCA, AMCA, etc.

ADA already suggested it. They want AMCA TD to build inhouse.
AMCA TD to be built in house as in? Convert ADA from a design bureau into a full fledged OEM with manufacturing as part of it.

Nicely rephrased. Then what was your point on 'strategic autonomy' again?

Instead of being impertinent, come up with something constructive.
 
The trained manpower can be used elsewhere. Right now, our private sector only has the ability to do subcontracted work. They do not yet have the expertise to build an entire aircraft.
Finally the answer I was looking for. I was half scared that most folk here aren't either aware of the salience of indigenization / self reliance / strategic autonomy or perhaps I wasn't able to articulate it well.


Foreign companies will bring in production expertise, which in turn can be used in indigenous programs. For example, DRAL will train Reliance's manpower to build aircraft, and then Reliance can use that experience to compete for the production rights for AMCA in the future. AMCA will be built elsewhere, without Dassault's involvement.

Precisely my point. That was the intention of the GoI behind keeping HAL out of prospective JV to manufacture Rafale under MMRCA - 2.0 if it came down to that.However You're assuming that DRAL wlll be awarded the MMRCA -2.0 & that would entail manufacturing here. What if it's imported in tranches? Our present economic crisis is certainly going to hamper capital acquisitions throughout the next decade. Not that pre Chinese virus era economy was ruddy, hale & hearty.

Besides why is it assumed that AMCA will be awarded to Reliance with or without the expertise it gains as part of DRAL. We've seen no indications for the road map as you lay it.


Only an experienced manufacturer can work with an experienced designer to make aircraft. Now, we have an experienced designer in the form of ADA, but the only choice for an experienced manufacturer today is HAL, since only they have the manpower with the capability to build an entire aircraft. In time, we will get more experienced manufacturers in the form of TATA, Reliance, Mahindra, Dynamatics, Bharat Forge etc. But they need to get started with license production first, just like how HAL did it.
Or we could well be stuck with a pvt version of HAL. There's also a real danger of that happening. Alternatively, get ADA to set up a manufacturing unit as another option.

Besides AMCA is set to take off in a few years. Even if we were to go by your DRAL experiment, there isn't enough time for the MMRCA -2. 0 to materialize, Reliance to gain the requisite experience & translate that into becoming a system integrator for AMCA all within the next decade.

I fear whichever way you're looking at it, HAL will have to be accommodated for AMCA by default. Which means the entire project for creation of capacities within the pvt sector as a counter balance to HAL for the moment will go kaput.


70% of LCA Mk1A will be manufactured by the private industry. So a huge chunk of the capability expected from the manufacturers already exists. Now they need experience in integration, factory testing, acceptance etc.
Agree with you here. Fortunately our Tier -2 & 3 suppliers do exist thanks to the ecosystem we've managed to create due to the LCA. The only lacunae here minus HAL is of a full fledged system integrator.

The IPR issue is moot, we have the ability to create our own IPR already.

Yes. Agree with this part too.
 
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Precisely my point. That was the intention of the GoI behind keeping HAL out of prospective JV to manufacture Rafale under MMRCA - 2.0 if it came down to that.However You're assuming that DRAL wlll be awarded the MMRCA -2.0 & that would entail manufacturing here. What if it's imported in tranches? Our present economic crisis is certainly going to hamper capital acquisitions throughout the next decade. Not that pre Chinese virus era economy was ruddy, hale & hearty.

If MMRCA 2.0 goes ahead, DRAL will manufacture most of them in India. If anyone else manufactures any other jet, then only a small portion of the 114 jets will be manufactured in India, with the rest coming in from the vendor country in kits. So Rafales are the best bet for the benefit of the industry. Obviously Dassault will create a full subcontracting ecosystem for the Rafale. The same thing is already being done for Falcon, the first cockpit deliveries happened a year ago.

The only way the Rafales will come in, in batches is if MoD cancels MMRCA and goes in for GTG.

Besides why is it assumed that AMCA will be awarded to Reliance with or without the expertise it gains as part of DRAL. We've seen no indications for the road map as you lay it.

I gave DRAL as an example. AMCA is not set to begin production until many years later. By then, many private companies would have set up factories for business jets and will compete with DRAL. Falcon will come out of DRAL in 2022. That's just 6 years after the Rafale deal was signed, which is pretty impressive.

Or we could well be stuck with a pvt version of HAL. There's also a real danger of that happening. Alternatively, get ADA to set up a manufacturing unit as another option.

It's impossible for a private version of HAL to survive, and it will still have to compete with HAL.

Besides AMCA is set to take off in a few years. Even if we were to go by your DRAL experiment, there isn't enough time for the MMRCA -2. 0 to materialize, Reliance to gain the requisite experience & translate that into becoming a system integrator for AMCA all within the next decade.

For Reliance specifically, DRAL will begin assembly of Falcons pretty soon. The first jet will fly in 2022, and they plan to make 24 per year in India.

1-30.jpg



I threw DRAL into the picture as an example, since they are the first now among all the private sector companies in terms of assembly of an entire jet. There's the TATA-Airbus JV coming up as well.

To put things in perspective, in the US alone business jets are sold in the thousands every year, almost 2000 last year. During its peak, before 2008, the highest it reached was 4000+ per year. So you can see the market you can get in India as it transitions into a middle income country.

DRAL is currently the Maruti-Suzuki of India's aviation market. And TATA-Airbus may follow.

I fear whichever way you're looking at it, HAL will have to be accommodated for AMCA by default. Which means the entire project for creation of capacities within the pvt sector as a counter balance to HAL for the moment will go kaput.

ADA is already looking for a private partner for the manufacture of TDs and prototypes. And they want to do it without HAL, and in an IAF facility in Coimbatore under the supervision of both the IAF and ADA. They have had enough of HAL.

In fact, the IAF is so frustrated by HAL that they wanted to become the lead integrator of MMRCA and AMCA on their own, and later backed out due to the challenges involved.

Agree with you here. Fortunately our Tier -2 & 3 suppliers do exist thanks to the ecosystem we've managed to create due to the LCA. The only lacunae here minus HAL is of a full fledged system integrator.

Weirdly, it was foreign aircraft that helped create that ecosystem, which the Mk1A is benefitting from.
 
Was referring to LCA, AMCA, etc.
Where you?
The aviation industry is unlike the auto industry irrespective of the analogy being offered in the OP. If Dassault sets up a factory in India in partnership with Reliance to manufacture Falcon or the Rafale in part or in full, who does the IPR rest with?

AMCA TD to be built in house as in? Convert ADA from a design bureau into a full fledged OEM with manufacturing as part of it.
Yes, DRDO is doing it for last 30 years.

Instead of being impertinent, come up with something constructive.
I was asking for clarification on this.
Tomm, one can extend this example to LM- Tata, Mahindra Airbus, etc. What we will have are world class quality products made in India, perhaps even designed in India, in part or full, but does India or by extension an Indian company control the IPR to these products? What does that do for our strategic autonomy.In seeking a solution, You've merely replaced one bad problem for another.
 
Where you?
Here (I )am.

Yes, DRDO is doing it for last 30 years.
By that token the DRDO should get into production then.

I was asking for clarification on this.
So what kind of clarification do you require on that? It's self explanatory. Irrespective of whether we import those aircrafts or manufacture them in a JV with a local partner, in the worst case scenario if we're sanctioned, we won't have the freedom to use this aircraft as we please. Now whether you term it lack of strategic autonomy / indigenization, poor planning, failure of diplomacy - you can pick your choice, it basically translates to the fact that product isn't owned by us That's the crux of the issue.

We're assuming that in lieu of a JV, the local partners here will imbibe best Manufacturing practises - something that'd go a long way in creating another system integrator as a competition or a counter balance to HAL . That's what @randomradio is arguing. While I do agree with his points & the larger gameplan of the GoI, my experience in life says that in India things rarely go according to plans especially well intentioned ones.
 
By that token the DRDO should get into production then.
Why?
So what kind of clarification do you require on that?
Stratagic autonamy. 🇷🇺
So what kind of clarification do you require on that? It's self explanatory. Irrespective of whether we import those aircrafts or manufacture them in a JV with a local partner, in the worst case scenario if we're sanctioned, we won't have the freedom to use this aircraft as we please. That's the crux of the issue.

We're assuming that in lieu of a JV, the local partners here will imbibe best Manufacturing practises - something that'd go a long way in creating another system integrator as a competition or a counter balance to HAL . That's what @randomradio is arguing. While I do agree with his points & the larger gameplan of the GoI, my experience in life says that in India things rarely go according to plans especially well intentioned ones.
They will be system integrators. MSMEs will cater to both.

Experience in India is solely based on DPSUs. Its time to change the benchmark.
 
Yes a failed , corrupt businessman bankrupt company and its investors being kept afloat by corrupt dispensation will change the the benchmark lol.
 
What do you mean why? When I asked you if you envisaged the ADA as some sort of an OEM for the future, you retorted with DRDO has been undertaking such activities for some 30 years. Which is why I posted what I did.

Stratagic autonamy. 🇷🇺
Autonomy. Neither did HAL have the strategic vision to set up an in-house R&D facility nor did the MoD. That's what's landed HAL in this mess. As far as poor SOP's, bad manufacturing practises & neglecting QA processes, whom do you blame this on, considering you've cryptically posted the Russian flag here.

They will be system integrators. MSMEs will cater to both.

Experience in India is solely based on DPSUs. Its time to change the benchmark.


Nobody's denying it. But the road map isn't clear nor is anything a given. We're in the midst of a huge transition & like all transitions one expect things to not follow plan either partially or in full & go awry. It's the latter we must guard against.

Have since updated my previous post which you've quoted.
 
What do you mean why? When I asked you if you envisaged the ADA as some sort of an OEM for the future, you retorted with DRDO has been undertaking such activities for some 30 years. Which is why I posted what I did.
They are R&D divisions. It's normal to have some kind of integration apparatus inhouse. Industry including HAL are be helping them. Think about ISRO.

Autonomy. Neither did HAL have the strategic vision to set up an in-house R&D facility nor did the MoD. That's what's landed HAL in this mess.
What are you talking about?

Ever Heard of ARDC, AERDC, SLRDC, ASERDC or RWRDC ? :cautious:

The Rotary Wing Research & Design Centre (RWRDC) developed ALH, LCH and LUH in-house.
 

The senior test pilot who authored the piece is a brilliant TP and colleague whom I have known for over 20 years. We toiled through the flight test course (FTC) together and have shared cockpit in many sorties. He makes a fair point at the outset that “problems do occur but they are not because the men behind the machines did not do their jobs; there are limits to knowledge and one learns from experience“. I fully agree with this observation and politely request him to extend the same generosity to the customers too.


He further states: “none of the naval pilots have flown or assessed the current generation ALH. It’s sad that with 16 ALH in the pipeline, the Naval Project Team at HAL does not have a Test Pilot or a Test Engineer on its strength. The last Test Crew was posted to the project team some 6-8 years back and that too with no mandate to participate in the ongoing ALH flight trials“.


The last test pilot at NPO incidentally was me! I have some amazing experiences from those days!


HAL test crew and me undertook the maiden afloat trials of ALH Mk-3 DW151 in 2014 with a “clear mandate” for spot checks of Mk-3 systems and dynamic interface prior shipping it to Maldives. I have flown all marks of the ALH in my capacity as project test pilot appointed to Naval Project Office (NPO) at HAL. Naval pilots have been flying the ALH Mk-3 for over six years now; and continue to do so to this day. An ALH Mk-3 is still with Maldives, flown by naval pilots. What generation-change or quantum jump took place in six years, I am keen to know. The latest Mk-3 on offer to navy reportedly comes with additional sensors and customisation. I will be keen to report on this bird, given an opportunity.


If navy did miss something, it is the inability to field test crew to NPO at HAL since 2014. Instead, the navy has raised a centre of excellence for naval flight testing – the Naval Flight Test Squadron (NFTS) at Goa. HAL has regularly been in touch with NFTS. I am also informed that there is significant synergy between HAL and NFTS. Test crew from both sides are in regular touch.


The navy is a small service with limited means. Test crew are premium even in the IAF and anywhere else in the world. Given the present low-throughput of indigenous aerospace manufacturing, the nation or industry may hardly value or require test crew. But from my experience, test crew contribution is valued not by numbers but by effect.


To that end, whenever any crucial naval ALH trial is conducted, services of naval test crew are always enlisted. NPO (ALH) sits across the road inside the Rotary Wing Research and Design Centre (RWRDC). Moving that office into the flight operations complex of HAL is simply an organisational or real estate problem. It can be fixed if both sides give or take a little.


Keeping an eye on future naval projects, HAL could easily consider offering few retiring naval test crew a second career in their organisation. Every country with such capability does. There’s nothing many self-respecting test crew would love doing more than flight testing. The latest discourse creates an imaginary shortage where none exists. Test pilots who have aced hundreds of prototype sorties face uncertain careers in airline industry today. That’s a pot of gold industry and services can tap into for bridging voids in customer requirements and product development.


Another point the senior TP makes runs contrary to the very purpose of navy setting up the NPO back in late 80s:


On the naval side, the role of the project team is reduced only to following up on the aircraft that come here for maintenance. There is no one to advise NHQ on what exactly HAL’s current capability is and how it has improved over the years. So, most of what you get is hearsay”.


While I understand where this complaint comes from, the role of NPO is not “following up on aircraft that come here (Bengaluru) for maintenance“. That is the role and charter of Naval Liaison Cell (NLC), Bengaluru – a completely separate entity. If today, NPO lacks a naval test pilot, so does HAL. If indeed the NPO has turned insignificant, navy needs to worry.


I took up duties at IHQ MoD (Navy) / DNAS at a point where the file for returning all eight naval ALH back to HAL was in process. I take some credit – along with many naviators who wished well for this bird – for having played a role in reversing this decision. An increasingly frustrated navy, left holding ALH that couldn’t sustain even a fair-weather embarkation, did a Williamson’s Turn to order 16 more ALH, albeit for a shore-based role.


I have not flown the ALH in operational roles. My first brush with ALH was at NPO which was also my last assignment before taking premature retirement from navy. I did not belong to any exclusive “members-only” club when I took office in NPO. My experience was thus not coloured by cognitive or selection bias. It came from a purely flight test background, having already flown about 18 types in India and abroad; with NHQ experience to boot. My paper on ‘Improving the Operational Utility of Naval ALH’ penned sometime in 2010-11 can be found in the dusty cupboards of NHQ or Western Naval Command.


Slowly, a momentum was generated. Maldives was the first beneficiary – not because ALH out-performed any competitition, but because it was an indigenous product that met a strategic purpose. That’s the signalling power of indigenisation. Today, HAL has orders for 16-each ALH Mk-3 from IN and Indian Coast Guard. See how far we have come!


Rest of the commentary by the senior TP highlights poor experience of IN with LSP aircraft and the inability to meet NSQRs. He writes emphatically “the Navy continues to hold only the Mk I (LSP) variants, hence the poor experience.”


While I do understand the difference between Limited Series Production (LSP) and Series Production (SP), fact remains that Indian Navy today has eight ALH – of which two are LSP and balance six are from SP. I am sure the 16 ALH Mk-3 will provide both sides an opportunity to fly and evaluate the improvements and updates. In fact, I see a golden opportunity for HAL to develop the 2-segmented blade and demonstrate a workable blade folding solution on one of the 16 Mk-3s.


This line from his post sums it up nicely and aligns with recent comments from other high-ranking officials of HAL: “ALH was specifically designed for high altitude and some intensive manoeuvring which are exactly opposite to what the Indian Navy needed.” If true, one wonders why HAL should persist with offering ALH back to the navy with no major change. Maybe I am missing something.


A question posed towards the end makes for interesting reading: “What is HAL asking? I suppose a level playing field. Allow ALH to compete and allow HAL the same margins that are given for development and integration of systems to foreign vendors. Don’t make a QR which keeps ALH out. Allow it to compete on its own merit rather than forcing it out by making a skewed qualitative requirement.” A Defence PSU asking for ‘level playing field’ is like Sachin Tendulkar asking for one while playing street cricket with the local boys! :ROFLMAO:


Foreign vendors only care about the gains that they will make, they do not want a self-reliant India. They want an India which they can continue to milk for years“, he writes. Fair point; but maybe the same holds true for DPSUs too. Strategic Partnership has approval of Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS). If the very premise of SP is being challenged, it is for the CCS to decide.


I completely endorse his closing remarks that “the Indian Navy and HAL can work together and resolve their differences. Both institutions owe this to the nation.” YES we can, and we SHOULD! It’s been 35 years since ALH NSQRs were released. During this period, Sub Lieutenants became Admirals and retired. In services, where “you have to move if you want to go places”, it is impossible, in my opinion, to foment or sustain any perceived “anti-indigenisation” agenda. The Indian Navy has always been “pro-indigenisation”. But they are admittedly a tough customer. There’s a goldmine waiting to be tapped here for OEMs. Go ahead and satisfy your best critic. The best brand ambassador for any product is a satisfied customer.


Your sharpest critic is not your enemy; just as a sycophant is not your best friend

Let’s do this together!


Somewhere down the line, this “us versus them” should be turned into “us and them together”. Rhetoric must make way for a deeper understanding of customer requirements. Together, everyone achieves more.


India is oozing with talent. But the entry barriers for people wanting to work with PSUs are huge. Having seen both sides of the fence, I feel, private sector can leapfrog processes that take years in state-owned entities if there is serious business to be transacted. All around me, I see bright sparks so well read; straining at the leash to work towards ‘atma nirbharta‘ (self-reliance). Some of them amaze me with their knowledge and energy. Some I had the good fortune to mentor left this country for foreign shores just because nobody around here gave them a chance to contribute.


Much talent and resources can be found within five miles from the hub of aviation design and development here in Bangalore if only we turn this debate away from “individuals” to “issues”, turn negative discourse to “positive engagement”, develop healthy professional attitude & eschew parochialism.