Trump Offers F-35 Jet to India in Push for More Defense Deals

Picdelamirand-oil said:
Even if it's only R&D cost, it's 1/3 of F-35 R&D cost.... it's the cost of F1 Rafale R&D
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Based on what's been said to date, a lot of money has already been spent on creating the TD, engine, and associated avionics.

While Rafale cost a lot, as did the F-35, the R&D cost itself was spread out across a very long duration, 15+ years, almost 25 years for the F-35. F-47's $20B is for just 5+ years of work before deliveries begin. It very likely doesn't cover all the work that happened between 2014 and 2025. And NGAP's history begins in the late 90s.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
The F-35 was designed as a structural integration tool in the US military, much more than a stand-alone fighter. It only works fully with the US C4ISR architecture and requires ongoing technical support from Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon.

Until now, this dependence was seen as an advantage: it guaranteed buyers direct access to American military power. But this logic assumed that the United States would remain a reliable and constant ally. Now, with Trump 2.0 and his even more unpredictable entourage, that assumption is collapsing.

The countries that bought the F-35 never envisaged operating on their own. They accepted a form of vassalage because it guaranteed protection in exchange for the loss of autonomy. But today, the risk is that this dependence could become a trap:
  • If Trump decides not to defend certain allies, their F-35s will be unusable in critical situations.
  • If Trump imposes restrictions on use, buyers will find themselves bound hand and foot (cf. the ban on sending F-16s to Ukraine in the first place).
  • If the United States turns in on itself, the F-35-dependent nations will have to review their entire strategic posture.
Greenland is a good example. If Trump seriously considers annexing it (or at least making it a US-controlled territory), Denmark will lose all autonomy over its defence. Its F-35s will only be usable if Washington gives the go-ahead.

The same problem applies to Poland. If a conflict breaks out in the Baltic States, the Polish F-35 cannot be used without a green light from the US. Trump has already implied that NATO is a conditional protection.

The irony is that those who relied on the F-35 to guarantee their security are the most exposed today. And those who avoided the trap (France with its Rafale, Germany with its Eurofighter, even Sweden with its Gripen) find themselves paradoxically in a better position.

The current realisation is late in coming, but inevitable. Europe will not be able to back down easily on the F-35, but the question of real strategic military autonomy is becoming more pressing than ever.
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May be... India should buy a squadron or two of F-35s from those european nations looking to dump them. At a discount and with American blessings ofcourse! Good for morale, comparison of capability and reverse engineering some critical technologies like radar, engine and network capabilities.

It can serve a good reference for comparing for AMCA.
 
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Saaho said:
May be... India should buy a squadron or two of F-35s from those european nations looking to dump them. At a discount and with American blessings ofcourse! Good for morale, comparison of capability and reverse engineering some critical technologies like radar, engine and network capabilities.

It can serve a good reference for comparing for AMCA.
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The article's explaining why the Europeans want to dump the F-35s and why it's a worse idea for India.
 
randomradio said:
Of course. But the only version that would meet our needs is the F-35I.
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The only real solution to IAF need is AMCA.

But, to be honest, the way things are going, ANY fifth gen fighter in interim will do. It will also speed up AMCA development in more than one way.
 
Saaho said:
The only real solution to IAF need is AMCA.

But, to be honest, the way things are going, ANY fifth gen fighter in interim will do. It will also speed up AMCA development in more than one way.
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Unfortunately, no import can speed up AMCA. There won't be any relation between the two.

Sure, it can function as a stopgap, but that's what MRFA is for in the first place.
 
Saaho said:
The only real solution to IAF need is AMCA.
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The only real solution is a 5th Gen platform available to IAF / India that can be sustained long term via robust supply chain of every LRU. It is up to the Govt to decide the how, whether and when part of it.
Right from the early 1960s till this day the Govt side mandate has always been to sustain minimal military force by import route. This is a self-conscious choice and it is unlikely to change anytime soon. The import military gear has always been end of the line stuff rather than at the beginning and always country specific heavy modification applied to it. Basically a high volume limited production of custom made systems sourced from different countries put together, hence the end platform/system is highly boutique version in nature.

Bottom line being, just because today common people have social media and want the country to join cutting end arms race without understanding the real world industrial capability of the country, it is and will remain pipe dream.
 
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randomradio said:
There, the first casualty of this dead dream.

Germany will keep their F-35s.

armyrecognition.com

Focus: Germany Reaffirms Commitment to US F-35 Fighter Jet Procurement Despite Trump’s Criticism of Europe

Focus: Germany Reaffirms Commitment to US F-35 Fighter Jet Procurement Despite Trump’s Criticism of Europe
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com
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Pourtgal and Canada are cancelling or reducing their orders.. Thats enough to make place for India. Just 72 jets are enough for now. Dont go for any stupid customization or any such delays, just get the jet and missiles.
 
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Saaho said:
Pourtgal and Canada are cancelling or reducing their orders.. Thats enough to make place for India. Just 72 jets are enough for now. Dont go for any stupid customization or any such delays, just get the jet and missiles.
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If modi is wise, he should grab that F35 offer, the last opportunity to open door to superior US weapons to get an edge over China & Pakistan. We are no longer in opposite to US and our scientists s*cks when comes creativity & lethality just like currunt Russians, so grab this offer.
 
Hydra said:
If modi is wise, he should grab that F35 offer, the last opportunity to open door to superior US weapons to get an edge over China & Pakistan. We are no longer in opposite to US and our scientists s*cks when comes creativity & lethality just like currunt Russians, so grab this offer.
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If Modi is wise, he should say "perhaps" and not close the door to any solution until the choice so that any solution stay open. AT the very end India is a competitor to the US and being a competitor as Europe means a lot if US is no longer demacratic.
 
Herciv said:
If Modi is wise, he should say "perhaps" and not close the door to any solution until the choice so that any solution stay open. AT the very end India is a competitor to the US and being a competitor as Europe means a lot if US is no longer demacratic.
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Naaah. US weapons are for two purposes. One is obviously to fight a possible war. Other is to learn from them and implement our platforms.
 
Saaho said:
Pourtgal and Canada are cancelling or reducing their orders.. Thats enough to make place for India. Just 72 jets are enough for now. Dont go for any stupid customization or any such delays, just get the jet and missiles.
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Portugal has no contract. The only ones considering it are Canada, Germany, and Switzerland.

Canada and Germany should be viewed through the lens of elections. And neither are likely to back out. The Swiss are unlikely to change their minds either.

Anyway, the standard F-35 is useless to India. We need more than the Israely-style modifications. This is 'cause of that ecosystem bit you brought up, it's not the NGAD.
 
Saaho said:
Naaah. US weapons are for two purposes. One is obviously to fight a possible war. Other is to learn from them and implement our platforms.
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Ironically, the F-35 provides us with neither.

MRFA will give us better avionics and accompanying drones will provide better stealth than what's on the F-35. And MRFA will come with ToT, whereas if the F-35 is bought, it won't go beyond assisting the IAF in creating some new anti-stealth tactics, which will also be outdated by the time it's delivered.

Any new jet after MRFA has to be 6th gen.
 
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We will make our own weapons. No need to buy it from strangers especially looters. And how cant even make own weapons? I mean we had the best military in history others used to buy our stuff like war elephants and now we can make a good plane? We have all the resources. Russia is willing to do tech transfer and we have manpower and materials. What is stopping the govt?
 
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