It's another circus act. Trump is being used as an excuse by the EU to take away more freedom from the European people. The end result will still be higher defense spending, which suits Trump just fine.
Trump Offers F-35 Jet to India in Push for More Defense Deals
- Thread starter Ginvincible
- Start date
It's another circus act. Trump is being used as an excuse by the EU to take away more freedom from the European people. The end result will still be higher defense spending, which suits Trump just fine.
ANd now Germany :
www.n-tv.de
Germany has ordered 35 F-35 fighter jets in the USA. The treaties give the US side unusually far-reaching rights.
As a replacement for the tornado of the Bundeswehr, the Federal Government has ordered 35 F-35 Lightning II viper jets in the USA. However, the Treaties contain disturbing clauses.
The contracts for the procurement of new F-35 fighter jets for the Bundeswehr were granted to the USA numerous previously unknown special rights. This is what the "Stern" reports in its current issue, citing under which the magazine was able to see.
After that, US President Donald Trump could stop the delivery of the jet at any time if it is in the "national interest" of the US. The Jet 2027, which was produced by the manufacturer Lockheed Martin, will come to Germany as a regular basis and ensure so-called nuclear sharing from 2029.
According to security experts, all German mission plans must be submitted to the US government for approval in advance. There are no guarantees or securities for the Bundeswehr due to impending contractual penalties.
Instead, the US side regulates the entire treaty for the so-called "Foreign Military Sales" program (FMS). This is an armament programme provided with its own regulations, conditions and threshold clauses. For example, the US government reserves the right to "cancel or suspend the provision of services in whole or in part" at the F-35.
In addition, the FMS regulations state that the delivery room and the quantity of aircraft, currently 35 pieces, can be changed at any time by a one-sided declaration of the US side. And: "The legal process is excluded from FMS contracts." Any conflicts would have to be resolved in negotiation between the Federal Republic of Germany and the US government.
"With all contracts and delivery items, there is the possibility that the delivery time room and the delivery volume change by means of a unilateral declaration on the U.S. item," says German documents, a regulation that raises concerns among the participants, especially against the background of the political uncertainties in the White House. Security experts ask why the Bundeswehr has accepted such conditions, despite the far-reaching power granted to the US government.
F-35-Verträge bieten USA bislang unbekannte Sonderrechte
Als Ersatz für den Tornado der Bundeswehr hat die Bundesregierung in den USA 35 Tarnkappen-Kampfjets vom Typ F-35 Lightning II bestellt. In den Verträgen finden sich allerdings beunruhigende Klauseln.
www.n-tv.de
F-35 contracts offer USA previously unknown special rights
Germany has ordered 35 F-35 fighter jets in the USA. The treaties give the US side unusually far-reaching rights.
As a replacement for the tornado of the Bundeswehr, the Federal Government has ordered 35 F-35 Lightning II viper jets in the USA. However, the Treaties contain disturbing clauses.
The contracts for the procurement of new F-35 fighter jets for the Bundeswehr were granted to the USA numerous previously unknown special rights. This is what the "Stern" reports in its current issue, citing under which the magazine was able to see.
After that, US President Donald Trump could stop the delivery of the jet at any time if it is in the "national interest" of the US. The Jet 2027, which was produced by the manufacturer Lockheed Martin, will come to Germany as a regular basis and ensure so-called nuclear sharing from 2029.
According to security experts, all German mission plans must be submitted to the US government for approval in advance. There are no guarantees or securities for the Bundeswehr due to impending contractual penalties.
Instead, the US side regulates the entire treaty for the so-called "Foreign Military Sales" program (FMS). This is an armament programme provided with its own regulations, conditions and threshold clauses. For example, the US government reserves the right to "cancel or suspend the provision of services in whole or in part" at the F-35.
In addition, the FMS regulations state that the delivery room and the quantity of aircraft, currently 35 pieces, can be changed at any time by a one-sided declaration of the US side. And: "The legal process is excluded from FMS contracts." Any conflicts would have to be resolved in negotiation between the Federal Republic of Germany and the US government.
"With all contracts and delivery items, there is the possibility that the delivery time room and the delivery volume change by means of a unilateral declaration on the U.S. item," says German documents, a regulation that raises concerns among the participants, especially against the background of the political uncertainties in the White House. Security experts ask why the Bundeswehr has accepted such conditions, despite the far-reaching power granted to the US government.
All of this is just playing to the gallery. The top 3 US defence companies, Boeing, LM and NG were among the biggest sources of election funding for Trump.
They will pressurize him to back down if they see European F-35 orders in jeopardy.
Otoh, Europe has no alternative to the F-35 with GCAP 10 years away from production and with no way to recoup the billions of $ already invested in the F-35.
Barring France, every other European country worth its name has bought the F-35. Assuming they could replace the F-35A, what options do they have with regard to the F-35B which is operational on everything from UK QE class carriers to the new Italian Trieste LPH?
There are no STOVL aircraft under development anywhere in the world, except perhaps China.
They will pressurize him to back down if they see European F-35 orders in jeopardy.
Otoh, Europe has no alternative to the F-35 with GCAP 10 years away from production and with no way to recoup the billions of $ already invested in the F-35.
Barring France, every other European country worth its name has bought the F-35. Assuming they could replace the F-35A, what options do they have with regard to the F-35B which is operational on everything from UK QE class carriers to the new Italian Trieste LPH?
There are no STOVL aircraft under development anywhere in the world, except perhaps China.
Zero chance for those that have already signed. Backing out now would result in penalties far more than just what's for the F-35 cancelation. The cost will go into trade deals too.
Germany's biggest export to the US is cars, $24.3B, cars that the US does not need, and Trump can drop that to zero.
Canada's biggest exports are crude oil ($97B) and cars ($34B).
All replaceable.
Trade war isn't any more a risk, it's a fact. More than that all european countries are now thinking that Trump can ally with russia and become an enemy. Then for most european countries the problem is much deeper than a trade war, worst for Canada.
Wegen Trump: Pistorius ruft Bundeswehr-Generäle zum Krisengespräch
Verteidigungsminister Pistorius berät mit Generälen über die Zuverlässigkeit der US-Waffensysteme. Die Suche nach alternativen europäischen Rüstungsprojekten läuft.
www.t-online.de
Pistorius calls for Bundeswehr generals to a crisis meeting
Defense Secretary Pistorius consults with generals on the reliability of US gun systems. The search for alternative European arms projects is underway.
In view of the doubts about the reliability of US President Donald Trump, Federal Defense Secretary Boris Pistorius (SPD) is reportingly planning a crisis consultation on US weapons systems. As the "Süddeutsche Zeitung" (SZ) reported on Thursday, there will be security issues relating to weapon systems that the Bundeswehr has already used or ordered. Representatives from the Union and the SPD, meanwhile, spoke out in favour of arms purchases in Europe instead of in the USA.
According to the "SZ", the minister plans a confidential round with high-ranking generals, ministry experts and representatives of the procurement office. It will also be about the reliability of F-35 fighter aircraft, of which the Bundeswehr wants to buy at least 35 jets. A spokesman for the ministry did not want to express himself on internal meetings at the request of the newspaper.
On the question of possible secret shutdown functions in the event of a conflict, the spokesperson said, "The F-35 cannot be easily switched off from a distance." However, details about the operation of weapon systems, the supply and data connection are usually classified, i.e. secret. At the same time, the ministry pointed out that the F-35 programme, as a joint development of eight nations, was not a bilateral, but a multinational arms project. There are significant parts that are manufactured exclusively outside the USA.
"Trump changed sides"
The background to considerations is a debate about the purchase of US weapons systems that increase Germany's dependence on the US. There is concern that the US is increasingly becoming a geopolitical opponent under Trump. US weapons systems could be useless in the worst case."Trump has changed sides," said the German military expert Carlo Masala, Professor of International Politics at the Bundeswehr University of Applied Sciences in Munich, the "Rheinische Post" on Washington's current Russia policy. The US president wants good relations with Russia, that is why Trump has adopted the Russian narratives. For him, Ukraine is a disturbing factor.
Carlo Masala: He warns the Europeans. (Source: Sven Hoppe)
On the subject of F-35, Masala told the "SZ", nobody knows if there was a shutdown function in the fight jet, but he would not suspect it. The problem is rather the data transmission and the question of spare parts. "If that fails, the F-35 does not have a large number of its functions."
The solution is intended for experts in the procurement of European defence equipment. "In the future, care must be taken to buy in Germany or Europe, even if we do not reach 100 percent of the American capabilities," said SPD defence householder Andreas Schwarz on Thursday's newspapers of the Bavarian media group. "Dear 80 percent, who work instead of 100 percent, which is not available because Trump is pulling the plug."
Heusgen: 'Europe's urgent and needy rearmament
The CSU member and defence policymaker Reinhard Brandl is also relying on more contracts for European arms companies. "We need to become more confident along the entire value chain in the area of security and defence, and thus increasingly award contracts to national and European main contractors," he told the newspapers. In addition, Brandl called for better involvement of European companies if they needed to be bought abroad.Green leader Franziska Brantner also spoke out in favour of a stronger focus on Europe: "I hope that we will not only buy American 'off the shelf', even if we have no alternative in some areas," she said. "We need to think 'defense' at European level, get it better and faster, invest together in new technologies and create new European consortia, as Airbus once showed."
- The former chairman of the Munich Security Conference, Christoph Heusgen, hopes for an early strong European leadership with Germany, France, Great Britain and Poland. At the Munich Security Conference, he "still tried to bring the so-called Weimar Triangle to the stage," he told Phoenix. He did not succeed in doing so, but he was optimistic that in the face of the current challenges it will now be successful. The population must also be taken away by making it clear "how urgent and necessary this rearmament of Europe is".
I'm afraid we're looking at a situation involving China + Russia + USA on the one hand, and a yet-to-be-defined alliance on the other, including most EU countries. It's not Russia alone that our European leaders are preparing against, but a Russia/US alliance.
I didn't understand the BoC's move yesterday to support the dollar, and now I'm considering a hypothesis I don't like. The Indians are going to have to be very careful concerning US and China
I didn't understand the BoC's move yesterday to support the dollar, and now I'm considering a hypothesis I don't like. The Indians are going to have to be very careful concerning US and China
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You are coming to a conclusion that I had pointed out nearly a decade ago.
Russia is a natural partner for the US against China, and it would have always made sense for the US + EU to team up with Russia to deal with China, because Russia was never the EU's enemy. We can see that through the limited military capabilities they had deployed in the first place, before Ukraine. And I had also pointed out that if the Europeans do not have an antagonistic relationship with China, the Americans will find an alternative, and the Europeans will not like it.
Furthermore, it's no longer country vs country, but one ideology vs another. So it's globalists vs nationalists now. And the Republicans, BJP, and Kremlin represent the nationalists, while the Democrats, Indian Congress, leftists in Europe like Merz, Starmer, Macron etc represent the globalists. And in Europe, Orban, Weidel, Farage etc represent the nationalists. That's why you see the silent support of the right wing in Europe for Putin.
Germany's acting up because Trump and Musk have directly endorsed AfD in Germany.
So, if you look at the long term, if the Republicans stay in power and the nationalists gain power in Europe over the next 5 years, the Kremlin will naturally become an ally of convenience for the West against China. The same kinda flip-flop China has done since Khrushchev during the Cold War. Similarly if China is suppressed and India becomes the next threat, then relations will change again, with China gaining importance, and Russia becoming an enemy of the West.
But if the globalists take over in the EU, the US and Russia will become natural enemies of the EU. Trump is being used as the excuse to consolidate more power towards themselves.
Supporting the dollar weakens the yuan. It's an anti-American move.
Trump giving China cause to cut rates, weaken the yuan - Asia Times
Life is getting more and more challenging for officials at the People’s Bank of China. Governor Pan Gongsheng already faced a daunting list of dilemmas
asiatimes.com
Ironically, the globalists created modern China, and Xi hates them. Trump's win led to Xi normalizing relations with India. So there will be a pretty big trade war between the US and China.
India won't be negatively affected by the trade war. In fact, if the govt makes the right decisions, we could benefit from it.
Nope I think that US, Russia, and China could ally to part the world in a second Yalta conference perhaps including Israël or any non democratic country. I think that this scenerio is now more or less taken into account by european leaders.
All that looks like unrealistic levels of fearmongering. Politically, right now, all three don't like each other. Yalta Conference saw 3 allies having talks, but the US, Russia, and China having talks at that level is quite impossible.
Trump being close to Putin is just propaganda. His approach to the war is also quite naive, like stopping a war is an opinion that's easily made. It's just that Russia wasn't on top of the Republicans' sh!tlist. But China was and still is. So this Putin-Trump exchange is not going to go in Trump's way. Putin still has a war to win.
And the trade war between China and the US began quite some time ago. It's gonna go into overdrive within the next 2 weeks.
4 or even 8 years of this trade war is very likely to affect China's trade surplus negatively. Trump can then use his 60% tariff to push for manufacturing reforms within the US, while also diversifying suppliers from non-Chinese sources.
With Putin continuing his war, and China and the US in a major trade war, history's biggest apparently, I don't see how a Yalta type deal will work out in the middle of all that.
You can tell that the Democrats have a much softer position on China than the Republicans do.
@Herciv
This is one good thing coming out of the spat.
www.twz.com
Both the US and UK out.
Finally a more independent Europe. With the US cutting and running out of Europe towards China, we will see the beginnings of a real multipolar world.
A 5-10 year dependency will still remain though. Longer for Eastern Europe and the Nordic countries.
This is one good thing coming out of the spat.
New European Union Plan To Boost Local Arms Production Would Freeze U.S. Out Of Billions
Canada, angered by Trump's tariffs and rhetoric, may also join this new initiative as concerns over reliance on U.S. weapons grow.
www.twz.com
Both the US and UK out.
Finally a more independent Europe. With the US cutting and running out of Europe towards China, we will see the beginnings of a real multipolar world.
A 5-10 year dependency will still remain though. Longer for Eastern Europe and the Nordic countries.
With F47 announcement, i want to know how man of these so called EU nation will back off from F35.
@randomradio Trump has offered F35. If i am the PM, will tell "take my money and send F35" and will ensure F47 will be delivered in future.
@randomradio Trump has offered F35. If i am the PM, will tell "take my money and send F35" and will ensure F47 will be delivered in future.
The F-35 has issues that cannot be fixed until the beginning of the next decade. So it won't be in consideration until MRFA is in production.
If we are to buy a strategic asset from the US, it's going to have to be under the Republicans, first of all. And secondly, it has to be something we cannot develop or procure on our own. So F-47 or bust.
The Europeans are looking at tempest, that's why they we're eagerly looking for partners for the program hence the call to india for joining the tempest program, now the Europe see USA as unreliable partner they are going to double down the 6th gen program so does Japan, The USA will be unreliable partner be it the democratics or republicans, it's better to pour money in your own project rather than being hostage of the USA, how Hard it may seems to be, if our military leadership and political leaders weren't incompetent in decision making we might not be even looking for f-35 today, USA weapons are gold plated apart from the USA nobody has money to operate them at large scale,
What's the point of having a Jet when you can't fire Astra mk3 from it,
Also the akus deal is literally scam, also it's the eye opener such things can happen with anyone,
It is possible that the US will slow down its purchases of the F-35, and several recent signals point in this direction:
With the announcement of Boeing's F-47 for the NGAD programme, the US is showing that it is already preparing for the post-F-35 era. Although the NGAD will not directly replace the F-35, it could affect the pace of purchases.
Between TR-3 delays, maintenance costs and engine limitations, the US Air Force and Navy could slow orders to avoid accumulating too many hard-to-maintain aircraft.
The US defence budget remains substantial, but the ramp-up of the NGAD and other costly programmes (such as the modernisation of the nuclear triad and new-generation UAVs) could force the Pentagon to arbitrate between several priorities.
If the United States considers that the F-35 is less relevant to a confrontation with China than a stealthier and more autonomous NGAD, it could limit its acquisition and reallocate funds to other projects (combat drones, hypersonics, naval superiority, etc.).
Trump could review the Pentagon's priorities, especially if he wants to favour Boeing over Lockheed Martin. He could also seek to reduce foreign commitments, which would make the need for a massive F-35 fleet less urgent.
If a slowdown is confirmed, this would have major consequences: an increase in the unit cost of the F-35 for the allies, pressure on the countries committed to the programme (Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc.), and perhaps a return to favour of the F-15EX or other alternatives.
With the announcement of Boeing's F-47 for the NGAD programme, the US is showing that it is already preparing for the post-F-35 era. Although the NGAD will not directly replace the F-35, it could affect the pace of purchases.
Between TR-3 delays, maintenance costs and engine limitations, the US Air Force and Navy could slow orders to avoid accumulating too many hard-to-maintain aircraft.
The US defence budget remains substantial, but the ramp-up of the NGAD and other costly programmes (such as the modernisation of the nuclear triad and new-generation UAVs) could force the Pentagon to arbitrate between several priorities.
If the United States considers that the F-35 is less relevant to a confrontation with China than a stealthier and more autonomous NGAD, it could limit its acquisition and reallocate funds to other projects (combat drones, hypersonics, naval superiority, etc.).
Trump could review the Pentagon's priorities, especially if he wants to favour Boeing over Lockheed Martin. He could also seek to reduce foreign commitments, which would make the need for a massive F-35 fleet less urgent.
If a slowdown is confirmed, this would have major consequences: an increase in the unit cost of the F-35 for the allies, pressure on the countries committed to the programme (Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc.), and perhaps a return to favour of the F-15EX or other alternatives.
That's already public information. Instead of 72 pa by 2037, the USAF is now gonna buy 48 pa until 2044.
Only 25 next year.
If NGAD is $300M, it cannot replace the F-35's mass requirement.
The Pentagon wants an optimum 130 fighter squadrons. So the numbers will go up one way or another.
50 combat + 26 ANG + 11 reserve + 16 training squadrons. That's 103 today. And that includes 12 junk A-10 squadrons and 7 F-15C/D squadrons. So that's just 84 squadrons.
There are 35 F-16 squadrons, so if we assume at least 25 are gonna be replaced by the F-35, they will need 71 new squadrons. That's 1700 jets. Assuming 250 are NGAD and 150+ are F-15EX, we are still gonna see 1200 new F-35s. The remaining 10 F-16s could get replaced by another SE design meant for low risk ops like insurgencies. And there are still 9 more F-15E squadrons remaining, we can assume they won't make it to 130 so these can be eliminated.
1200 new ones are quite close to their total 1763 planned order.
The US will have to find a way to fund their modernization.
The largest European countries were always going to have their own jet programs regardless of how relations were with the US. France and UK would always lead one each. And Sweden may keep at it for this generation at the very minimum.
The issue is the one-type operators who chose the F-35 or the multi-types that are stuck entirely with American IPR, like the Polish.
It's not a big deal though.
You think AUKUS is bad? The entire dollar industry is dying 'cause of the sanctions on Russia.
Single sourcing of supplies has always been a bad bet. That's why the Koreans and even the Taiwanese focus on indigenization. Anybody seriously expecting to get into a fight require multiple sources.
Eyeing China threat, Trump announces Boeing wins contract for secretive future fighter jet
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump announced Friday that Boeing will build the Air Force’s future fighter jet, which the Pentagon says will have stealth and penetration capabilities that far exceed those of its current fleet and is essential in a potential conflict with China.Known as Next Generation Air Dominance, or NGAD, the manned jet will serve as quarterback to a fleet of future drone aircraft designed to be able to penetrate the air defenses of China and any other potential foes. The initial contract to proceed with production on a version for the Air Force is worth an estimated $20 billion. ( seems to me very cheap)
The 47th president, who announced the award at the White House with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and Air Force leadership, said with a grin that the new fighter would be named the F-47.
Gen. David Allvin, chief of staff of the Air Force, said, “We’re going to write the next generation of modern aerial warfare with this.” And Hegseth said the future fleet “sends a very clear, direct message to our allies that we’re not going anywhere.”
Critics have questioned the cost and the necessity of the program as the Pentagon is still struggling to fully produce its current most advanced jet, the F-35, which is expected to cost taxpayers more than $1.7 trillion over its lifespan. In addition, the Pentagon’s future stealth bomber, the B-21 Raider, will have many of the same cutting edge technologies in advanced materials, AI, propulsion and stealth.
Mostly R&D cost. $300M can be the unit cost if a TEF is chosen.
Compared to the F-22, the F-47 will cost less and be more adaptable to future threats – and we will have more of the F-47s in our inventory. The F-47 will have significantly longer range, more advanced stealth, be more sustainable, supportable, and have higher availability than our fifth-generation fighters. This platform is designed with a “built to adapt” mindset and will take significantly less manpower and infrastructure to deploy.
Could either point towards an SEF or LCC. I think the latter makes more sense.
Even if it's only R&D cost, it's 1/3 of F-35 R&D cost.... it's the cost of F1 Rafale R&D