Ukraine - Russia Conflict
- Thread starter randomradio
- Start date
The difference of course is the Russians negotiated a deal to take over Eastern Poland, Baltics, Finland etc.
Yeah the allies sold the Czechs down a river, but it wasn't with any intention other than misguided peace.
Russia's deal with the Nazis? Gave them all the resources needed to sustain a war for 4 years.
Surely, you can understand the difference between Molotov and Munich right?
German–Soviet Axis talks - Wikipedia
1940 Proposal to join the Axis.
Yes , it's called capitalising on an existing situation . What was routine work for all the colonial powers of Europe in the rest of the world but not in Europe , something which countries with no proper colonies or colonies abutting their homeland with no means of expanding in other parts of the world chose to exercise in Europe.
Sure.
Gave whom the resources ?
Maybe you ought to reorient your thinking to understand that the Nazis were mortal enemies of the communists & there was none Stalin feared more than Hitler. The Munich Pact was Stalin's worst nightmare come true as he was desperately reaching out to the west for a mutual security pact .
The west didn't want one with him as they saw the communists & the fascists as two sides of the same coin. The conclusion of the Munich Pact was also a tacit signal to the Nazis , without saying as much , to undertake their long delayed campaign in the east as the western front "was now sorted out ."
A sort of let the Nazis & commies finish each other off & we'd deal with the survivors later.
Once the pact was concluded Stalin knew his days were numbered so he did what he thought was best suited for this situation namely to satiate Hitler's appetite for land & in the bargain increase his own territorial holdings.
But you can continue with the narrative - the west were the real heroes in this war here , the good guys , the golden boy as it were just as in the current conflict.
After all recognising the colour grey requires one not to be color blind. One often mistakes it for a shade of black even otherwise.
German–Soviet Commercial Agreement (1940) - Wikipedia
The trade pact helped Germany to surmount the British blockade.
- 1,500,000 metric tons (1,700,000 short tons; 1,500,000 long tons) of grains
- 820,000 metric tons (900,000 short tons; 810,000 long tons) of oil
- 180,000 metric tons (200,000 short tons; 180,000 long tons) of cotton
- 130,000 metric tons (140,000 short tons; 130,000 long tons) of manganese
- 180,000 metric tons (200,000 short tons; 180,000 long tons) of phosphates
- 18,000 metric tons (20,000 short tons; 18,000 long tons) of chrome ore
- 16,000 metric tons (18,000 short tons; 16,000 long tons) of rubber
- 91,000 metric tons (100,000 short tons; 90,000 long tons) of soybeans
- 450,000 metric tons (500,000 short tons; 440,000 long tons) of iron ores
- 270,000 metric tons (300,000 short tons; 270,000 long tons) of scrap metal and pig iron
- 200,000 kilograms (440,000 lb) of platinum
That list probably looks pretty close to some of the stuff Russia is exporting to China today
Facts are stubborn things.
Also, on the realpoltik analysis of WW2, I would say the Molotov pack was a shrewd bet to have Germany attack France and both sides get exhausted with Soviets on cleanup. The failure was from France dying quickly from the Nazi attack, not a years long attrition battle.
If the Nazis were really his fear, he could have just not signed the aggression pact and Germany would have struggled hard, and never had the resources to attack France.
Fun fact, the German invasion of Poland was well executed, but what broke the camel's back was the Soviets also invading later.
No need for war just keep your troops in defensive posture and Germany is screwed. Hard to believe mortal enemies.
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And all in spite of the fact that Communism was supposed to stand for equality, the opposite of Nazism. Which just shows that they've never actually stood for anything, just lies.
GMLRS rocket production to increase by 40% in 2024 and double in 2 years.
Why It’s Hard to Double GMLRS Production
Ukraine could use more of the devastating artillery rockets, but Lockheed says tooling, labor, and supply-chain problems prevent big leaps in production.
www.defenseone.com
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German–Soviet Commercial Agreement (1940) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The trade pact helped Germany to surmount the British blockade.
Could Hitler have invaded France without this support? Nope. Could they have contested UK in the air without the Soviets? nope. Could they have invaded the USSR? Nope. Would they have collapsed really early on the war without Soviet aid literally crossing the border June 21 1941?
- 1,500,000 metric tons (1,700,000 short tons; 1,500,000 long tons) of grains
- 820,000 metric tons (900,000 short tons; 810,000 long tons) of oil
- 180,000 metric tons (200,000 short tons; 180,000 long tons) of cotton
- 130,000 metric tons (140,000 short tons; 130,000 long tons) of manganese
- 180,000 metric tons (200,000 short tons; 180,000 long tons) of phosphates
- 18,000 metric tons (20,000 short tons; 18,000 long tons) of chrome ore
- 16,000 metric tons (18,000 short tons; 16,000 long tons) of rubber
- 91,000 metric tons (100,000 short tons; 90,000 long tons) of soybeans
- 450,000 metric tons (500,000 short tons; 440,000 long tons) of iron ores
- 270,000 metric tons (300,000 short tons; 270,000 long tons) of scrap metal and pig iron
- 200,000 kilograms (440,000 lb) of platinum
Well, all the West had to do was sign a pact of mutual security with the Soviets like the informal alliance they had in WW-1. After all they were partners in that war. By spurning the Soviets, they essentially told the former to go it their own way.
That Hitler didn't go by the script the West & the Soviets expected him to , double crossing both is what brought both of them together. Let's face it . There weren't any heroes then or now, just everyone trying to protect their own backsides at the cost of someone else.
That list probably looks pretty close to some of the stuff Russia is exporting to China today
Facts are stubborn things.
Same mistake the West made vis a vis the Soviets in WW-2 which'd come back to haunt them & since we're in the same goddamned boat as you are, thanks to the Chinese, it'd haunt us too for no fault of ours.
You win some, you lose some . Just as the West which would've been expecting Germany to launch their invasion of the SU anytime in the first half of 1939 would've been stunned by the coup Stalin & Molotov pulled off, France may have equally disappointed the SU & the world by capitulating so quickly.
You're speaking with the benefit of hindsight. Back then if the situation was do clear, events would've unfolded differently.
Poland was supposed to have been partitioned between the two. That was the agreement.
For perspective see how the Nazis battled communist gangs in the Weimar Republic immediately after WW-1 when the former was desperately trying to establish it's fledgling political presence.
The communists were of course funded motivated & ideologically mentored by the Soviet funded & founded Comintern.
Check out Rosa Luxembourg & her story for how far the Communists travelled in the immediate aftermath of WW-1.
Life's unfair Paddy as you may have discovered in the MENSA vs RoI discussions we had not very long ago. It's almost never a choice between good & bad as you've been raised to believe & which you did till you landed up here, it's also not always a choice between bad & worse but more often than not between the lesser of 2 evils. Glad realization dawned upon you even if it's too late in the day.
At least you get to croak wiser from your interactions here which had you been spending your evenings at O'Shea's you'd never have realised. BTW - belated greetings of St Paddy's Day. Hope this year's celebrations weren't as raucous & raunchy as compared to last year's.
every one in europe was trying to aggrandize & appropriate the territory of others but we only see the russians. cherry picking at the best.
They prefer to, yes - all NATO countries are democracies. They have relations outside of that, but that's not the same as backing a continental invasion, or a person from a democracy supporting a dictatorship to invade a country with an elected leader.
God damnit, you are such a truce twister. The UK agreement was designed to keep Hitler in check and limit his aggression, Stalin's Pact was to split Europe with Hitler. Pact means alliance in Russian, e.g. Warsaw Pact. Russia invaded Poland and several other countries in Europe as the Nazis did. The UK did not, France did not.
Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact - Wikipedia
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Sort of completely explains the 1971 war to liberate Bangladesh where the champions of democracy US & their poodle UK disregarded the election results in Pakistan where the newly elected PM of United Pakistan was thrown behind bars by the military dictator who in turn launched a genocide of his own countrymen in what's now Bangladesh due to which we got flooded by in excess of 10 million refugees when we were dirt poor ourselves.They prefer to, yes - all NATO countries are democracies. They have relations outside of that, but that's not the same as backing a continental invasion, or a person from a democracy supporting a dictatorship to invade a country with an elected leader.
When we decided to take matters in our own hands & launched a war to stop the genocide & liberate Bangladesh , guess who sent their aircraft carriers in our seas & who sent SSNs to persuade those AC fleets to back down ? Who were the democracies here & who were the dictatorships in this motley bunch , Paddy ?
God damnit, you are such a truce twister. The UK agreement was designed to keep Hitler in check and limit his aggression, Stalin's Pact was to split Europe with Hitler. Pact means alliance in Russian, e.g. Warsaw Pact. Russia invaded Poland and several other countries in Europe as the Nazis did. The UK did not, France did not.
Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact - Wikipedia
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Look at it as two sets of colonial powers Paddy. One set which carried out all their despicable activities outside Europe , the other set which carried the same out in Europe. See those events in this light & everything will be clear to you viz : Russia's pan Eurasian Empire , ze Germans Lebensraum , the British Pimpire , the French Colonial Enterprise , etc .
I'm simplifying things aka dumbing them down aka Paddyfying things for your easy understanding Paddy .
Meanwhile India is extremely appreciative of the UK for the valuable lessons in hypocrisy it taught us over a span of nearly 2 centuries & more ( since independence ) .
We remain eternally grateful for all those lessons , the learnings of which we're deploying for the benefit & upliftment of our people.
Uncharitable folks like the Britshits here would accuse us of hunting with the hounds & running with the hares but what do they know ? Thank you once more.
We remain eternally grateful for all those lessons , the learnings of which we're deploying for the benefit & upliftment of our people.
Uncharitable folks like the Britshits here would accuse us of hunting with the hounds & running with the hares but what do they know ? Thank you once more.