Ukraine - Russia Conflict

Dude, I can look at the J-20 vs Su-57 along with Russia's performance in Ukraine and tell you that Russia is not the number two military in the world anymore. That's from a relatively neutral perspective, in that I dislike both the regimes.

Form of government influences politics, trying to separate the two is beyond naive.

Well no, because there are no lunatics truck bombing civilians everyday in Ukraine. One must ask where those militant groups (Sunni-, Shia, Al-Quaeda) were receiving all their weapons and explosives from, and what their motives were. Because the seemed mainly intent on killing civilians, it was almost like an outside influence was trying to dump a load of civilian casualties on NATO for PR purposes in retrospect. In whose interest would that be?

Er... Okay.

Not necessarily. The US has supported and still supports monarchies and dictatorships around the world. Most of them are protected by the US.

Although Islamic terrorism took root post the creation of Israel, basically started off as a rebellion, it evolved to its current form under US patronage in Pakistan, which was used first against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and later India. Basically, the US played a very instrumental role in creating modern Islamic terrorism.

I'm saying that when you start saying that democracy vs dictatorship is irrelevant in moral arguments and politics, you have lost the debate and the plot.


I don't think you are able to understand the difference between right and wrong, or maybe you can but you are conveniently denying reality altogether.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
Er... Okay.

Not necessarily. The US has supported and still supports monarchies and dictatorships around the world. Most of them are protected by the US.

Although Islamic terrorism took root post the creation of Israel, basically started off as a rebellion, it evolved to its current form under US patronage in Pakistan, which was used first against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and later India. Basically, the US played a very instrumental role in creating modern Islamic terrorism.



:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
It does in situations where it has no choice but it prefers to work with democracies as evidenced by the fact that all NATO members are democracies and they only accept democracies. Turkey is not a dictatorship, it isn't a perfect democracy either, but painting it the same colour as China and the DPRK is garbage. This map is better, it has qualitative scores for various aspect of democracy.


Islamic fundamentalism actually started off in the early 20th century as a response to European colonialism. Watch 'The Bitter Lake' documentary. Various people have exploited it, but who was sponsoring the blind killing of civilians in Iraq by Jihadis? That's very different to using it against the Soviet military.

Serious comment, you have blurred the lines to fit your narrative lately.
 
Russian troops launched a double missile strike with cruise missiles on military targets in Nikolaev in Ukraine



The Ukrainian army shot down its helicopter. The Ukrainian military said they shot down a Russian helicopter. But the authors of the video did not take into account that only the Ukrainian Air Force has white Mi-24s; they were used in UN humanitarian missions in the Congo. Zooming in on the camera, you can clearly see that the color of the helicopter that is shot down is white, Russian Mi-24 and Mi-35M helicopters are not painted white.

 
It does in situations where it has no choice but it prefers to work with democracies as evidenced by the fact that all NATO members are democracies and they only accept democracies. Turkey is not a dictatorship, it isn't a perfect democracy either, but painting it the same colour as China and the DPRK is garbage. This map is better, it has qualitative scores for various aspect of democracy.


Islamic fundamentalism actually started off in the early 20th century as a response to European colonialism. Watch 'The Bitter Lake' documentary. Various people have exploited it, but who was sponsoring the blind killing of civilians in Iraq by Jihadis? That's very different to using it against the Soviet military.

Serious comment, you have blurred the lines to fit your narrative lately.

US prefers to work with dictatorships when nation building isn't the priority in those countries because they are easier to control. But countries like India are more important to build alliances with.

Islamic fundamentalism morphed from rebellion to terrorism due to the Americans and Pakistanis. It was only after America did it that the Iranians followed. Hezbollah was created in 1982 and Hamas in 1987. Al Queda in 1988. The US set the precedent.

My PoV is from the perspective of the Third World, so it supports neither the West nor Russia/China combine. To the TW, Russia is important due to their ability to control prices of oil and their significant domination of the food industry, including the supply of potash and fertilisers. And for a few more, their cheaper military equipment is also important. For India, there's the technology angle as well. Whereas the US is financially important to the TW, for both civilian tech and market access. So, if both fight, it hurts the TW. Isolating Russia financially is a bigger blow to the TW than to Russia itself. Because the Russians will still sell their stuff, but their stuff will end up pricier as it transitions through other markets, like China or India, to the TW.

This war likely has already killed more people in the TW by now than in Ukraine. The issue is the West doesn't give two sh!ts about the TW. We could die in the millions and it won't change anything for them. If Americans are complaining about gas prices, then you can imagine how bad it is elsewhere. And it gets worse then the West forces the TW to implement their Russian policies while ignoring the severe detriment to their own economies. It's already very bad post-pandemic, the West has made it worse with their antics in Ukraine, and now and they want to make it even worse than it already is. So, to the TW, the West is now the bad guys. We are basically no different from minor dependents being abused by adults.
 
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Iranians followed. Hezbollah was created in 1982 and Hamas in 1987. Al Queda in 1988. The US set the precedent.
guess who brought down a democratically elected govt and installed the shah ? 30 years later they installed another monster who was in exile in france . now the very own monster they created is fighting them.

south america is even worse, america created a exclusive group of dictators like g6. :ROFLMAO:
The infamous description "banana republic" for a country is an US gift to smaller south american countries.
 
But countries like India are more important to build alliances with.
Its only that US cannot install a puppet govt in India they try to create a master slave relation loosely calling it an alliance then intimidate them all dirty tricks like human rights, democracy...etc to toe their line. When every thing fails they throw a tantrum.

US has toppled govts in most countries around the world , some of them have back fired like Iran and others like India , china which had no success have become irritants where they try to pit one against another by acting as if they are helping them..
 

US prefers to work with dictatorships when nation building isn't the priority in those countries because they are easier to control. But countries like India are more important to build alliances with.

Islamic fundamentalism morphed from rebellion to terrorism due to the Americans and Pakistanis. It was only after America did it that the Iranians followed. Hezbollah was created in 1982 and Hamas in 1987. Al Queda in 1988. The US set the precedent.

My PoV is from the perspective of the Third World, so it supports neither the West nor Russia/China combine. To the TW, Russia is important due to their ability to control prices of oil and their significant domination of the food industry, including the supply of potash and fertilisers. And for a few more, their cheaper military equipment is also important. For India, there's the technology angle as well. Whereas the US is financially important to the TW, for both civilian tech and market access. So, if both fight, it hurts the TW. Isolating Russia financially is a bigger blow to the TW than to Russia itself. Because the Russians will still sell their stuff, but their stuff will end up pricier as it transitions through other markets, like China or India, to the TW.

This war likely has already killed more people in the TW by now than in Ukraine. The issue is the West doesn't give two sh!ts about the TW. We could die in the millions and it won't change anything for them. If Americans are complaining about gas prices, then you can imagine how bad it is elsewhere. And it gets worse then the West forces the TW to implement their Russian policies while ignoring the severe detriment to their own economies. It's already very bad post-pandemic, the West has made it worse with their antics in Ukraine, and now and they want to make it even worse than it already is. So, to the TW, the West is now the bad guys. We are basically no different from minor dependents being abused by adults.
Nope, it always prefers to work with democracies. The proof of that is in the makeup of their allies relative to those of Russia.

19th century is when it started.

In the Soviet-Afghan War they were never encouraged to kill civilians as that would have been pointless. Post WWII, Shias were the first to use suicide bombings against civilians.

TW? There are no good effects from this war but sanctions and support for Ukraine are the only option that doesn't risk a nuclear war. Doing nothing is not an option. Russia has already annexed one too many territories.

I doubt that. We're well into 6 figures between Russian and Ukrainian death and civilian death. US gas prices are low, they just got used to having it cheaper too much, it's still halve the price that it is in Europe. The alternative is a nuclear winter which kills over 1 billion via famine. So the current option is relatively mild.
 
guess who brought down a democratically elected govt and installed the shah ? 30 years later they installed another monster who was in exile in france . now the very own monster they created is fighting them.

south america is even worse, america created a exclusive group of dictators like g6. :ROFLMAO:
The infamous description "banana republic" for a country is an US gift to smaller south american countries.
The USSR was highly active in all those that you mentioned, it was also responsible for the spread of Communist dictatorships throughout Asia, ruining the lives of billions. CCP in China (Mao), DPRK (Kim), Vietnam (Le Duan), Cambodia (Pol Pot). It also installed a socialist system in Afghnaistan in 1973, which led to endless tribal warring. Anything the US did to prevent that happening elsewhere was well worth it.

The problem with Communism is that it always sounded good but it never was. You halve found that out for yourselves with your original socialist economic model, luckily you retained democracy and were able to change. Elsewhere socialist democracies turned into dictatorships when people started to realise that it was shit, and then it turns from a mistake in pencil to a mistake in a permanent marker.

Who do you think backed the Islamic revolution in Iran?
 
Russian losses in last 24 hours - 200 dead, 9 MBTs, 10 APCs, 17 supply trucks, 5 howitzers, 1 jet, 1 air defence system, 1 ship.

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Gunners of the 81st Brigade of the DShV destroyed one tank and two infantry fighting vehicles of the Russian invaders. The video shows the successful work of artillery soldiers of the 81st separate airmobile brigade of the DShV of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, who destroy the equipment and manpower of the racists from the British field trailer howitzers of 155 mm M777 caliber. In particular, one tank and two infantry fighting vehicles of the Russian occupiers together with their crews were turned into scrap metal.
 
However they maintained & still continue to maintain their hold on Asian territory in comparison to other European colonialists who either lost or left due to dire circumstances back home.
In the Soviet Union rebels either got shot or gulag'd throughout the 20th century, that's how they retained their grip. And today you get prison for protesting the war, or even calling it 'a war'. The punishment for that is more severe than it is for arson, which explains a lot when you think about it. :unsure:
 

But speaking at the annual St Petersburg International Economic Forum, President Putin claimed the EU could lose more than $400bn (£326bn) because of its sanctions against Russia.

However, Mr Putin's own officials have warned that the Russian economy is suffering serious damage from the sanctions. Central Bank Governor Elvira Nabiullina said on Thursday that "15% of the country's GDP" was threatened by the international response.
<2% vs 15%.
 
In the Soviet Union rebels either got shot or gulag'd throughout the 20th century, that's how they retained their grip. And today you get prison for protesting the war, or even calling it 'a war'. The punishment for that is more severe than it is for arson, which explains a lot when you think about it. :unsure:
Whatever be the reason, current situation is simply because of historical wrongs done and not corrected. I remember reading through the historical facts and one of them was the US forceful resolve to get Asian and African countries independence from European colonialists. Now I don't say US is the reason for the current geographical position directly, however in my opinion it didn't push Russia enough to get those lands independent, reasons beyond my knowledge. If British Empire, US at its Zenith didn't get Russia to within its historical region before these lands were populated by Russia, there is no reason to believe they can pull that now. Aside US and Canada for better lack of words were themselves a product of colonialism, hence what impact they could make in those times is bit hard to understand. My personal opinion, open to correction by everybody...
 
Whatever be the reason, current situation is simply because of historical wrongs done and not corrected. I remember reading through the historical facts and one of them was the US forceful resolve to get Asian and African countries independence from European colonialists. Now I don't say US is the reason for the current geographical position directly, however in my opinion it didn't push Russia enough to get those lands independent, reasons beyond my knowledge. If British Empire, US at its Zenith didn't get Russia to within its historical region before these lands were populated by Russia, there is no reason to believe they can pull that now. Aside US and Canada for better lack of words were themselves a product of colonialism, hence what impact they could make in those times is bit hard to understand. My personal opinion, open to correction by everybody...
Well Russia hung on to its own colonialist territories brutally, while harping on about European colonialism to help spread Communist dictatorships throughout Asia from 1945-1991. Then they will harp on about Western hypocrisy, and the brainwashed will join them.