Will POTUS Trump move to recognize Jerusalem as Capital of Israel and shift US Embassy lead to new chaos in Middle East?

[Soumya]

At best they will start 3rd Intifeda and will kill few jews and in retaliation Israel will bomb them and kill them till they enter into some kind of agreement.

Like most of the recent confilcts in middle east, muslims will kill more muslims in the process of killing the infidels.

This was a clear middle finger to Iran which is trying to corner Israel on the north via Syria, Iraq and Lebanese Hezbollah.

Other Arab members may cry river but they will do little .

 

[A Person]

1. Says who? The Bible. Ashkenazi have lived in Europe for two millennia before the ideology of Zionism (return to the Biblical homeland) was invented.

2. They have never stopped building settlements. The Israeli military controls all the important positions of the West Bank, including the border with Jordan and the checkpoints. They do not want to give that up, therefore they want to keep occupying the West Bank. If you disagree that occupation is oppression, you should petition for India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh to return to being the British Raj.
The Arab Israeli don't want to be expelled from their home, how is that surprising? Because that's what the question really means.

3. The Haredi do have a disproportionate influence on politics (which is starting to cause problems in Israeli society); and they aren't the only fringe group that want more settlements no matter what. In fact, the "more settlements no matter what" policy isn't even fringe.

4. Yes, the Palestinian Authority is extremely corrupt. But this is unavoidable in an occupation regime. If you can find a regime living at the mercy of an occupying power that wasn't made of traitors and embezzlers, I want to hear about it. The only way to change that is, again, letting them form a sovereign country.

5. You're not talking about Palestinians, though. You're talking about those who do not have to live there. You're talking about those who would not benefit from finally having peace and freedom. You're talking about those who just use the Palestinians' fate as a way to justify their outrage against unrelated things; such as thugs attacking a synagogue in Europe. You're talking about those who live in religious or military dictatorships and where the government fosters hatred of Israel as a way to focus popular anger away from themselves.

I keep things separate. Palestinians, not Muslims. Israeli, not Jews. The real conflict is political rather than religious.

Giving freedom to Palestinians by ending occupation and letting them have a real sovereign state would bring peace to Israel and Palestine, and it would allow to finally end the exportation of that conflict through sectarian lines in other countries. But that does not benefit Israel, who doesn't need given that they are overwhelming powerful and prefer to continue winning the war; and that does not benefit Arabs outside of Palestine, who would just lose a Regime-Approved Target of Anger but whose lives would otherwise be unchanged.

 

[RATHORE]

1. Says who? The Bible. Ashkenazi have lived in Europe for two millennia before the ideology of Zionism (return to the Biblical homeland) was invented.

2. They have never stopped building settlements. The Israeli military controls all the important positions of the West Bank, including the border with Jordan and the checkpoints. They do not want to give that up, therefore they want to keep occupying the West Bank. If you disagree that occupation is oppression, you should petition for India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh to return to being the British Raj.
The Arab Israeli don't want to be expelled from their home, how is that surprising? Because that's what the question really means.

3. The Haredi do have a disproportionate influence on politics (which is starting to cause problems in Israeli society); and they aren't the only fringe group that want more settlements no matter what. In fact, the "more settlements no matter what" policy isn't even fringe.

4. Yes, the Palestinian Authority is extremely corrupt. But this is unavoidable in an occupation regime. If you can find a regime living at the mercy of an occupying power that wasn't made of traitors and embezzlers, I want to hear about it. The only way to change that is, again, letting them form a sovereign country.

5. You're not talking about Palestinians, though. You're talking about those who do not have to live there. You're talking about those who would not benefit from finally having peace and freedom. You're talking about those who just use the Palestinians' fate as a way to justify their outrage against unrelated things; such as thugs attacking a synagogue in Europe. You're talking about those who live in religious or military dictatorships and where the government fosters hatred of Israel as a way to focus popular anger away from themselves.

I keep things separate. Palestinians, not Muslims. Israeli, not Jews. The real conflict is political rather than religious.

Giving freedom to Palestinians by ending occupation and letting them have a real sovereign state would bring peace to Israel and Palestine, and it would allow to finally end the exportation of that conflict through sectarian lines in other countries. But that does not benefit Israel, who doesn't need given that they are overwhelming powerful and prefer to continue winning the war; and that does not benefit Arabs outside of Palestine, who would just lose a Regime-Approved Target of Anger but whose lives would otherwise be unchanged.

1. The point remains, they are the original inhabitants, and existed there before Christianity and Islam even existed. As for Jews living in Europe, that's irrelevant, the need of the Global Jewry to have its own homeland, free from the persecution they haved faced throughout the globe and throughout history was proven once more in Europe where the Holocaust, and other anti Jewish pogroms (i.e. USSR) occurred.

2. Again, yes they have, a simple google search would reveal as much. You are simply trying your best to smear the Israelis on this issue. In fact, the stopping and starting of settlements has been a key issue as well as a key point of leverage used in the negotiations b/w the Israelis and Palestinians. And it is a fact that in the past, the Israelis have stopped building as a unilateral gesture. The argument about the British Raj was weak and besides the point anyways, so I'm going to move on. And no, actually, in those surveys, these Arab Israelis were questioned on a wide range of issues, such as democracy and rights in Israel etc etc It wasn't just a one question survey about whether they wanted to stay in their homes or be kicked out.

3. And this is meeting a serious pushback in most of Israeli society. Israelis overall are not happy with this, and as a democratic state will fight to cap this influence. As compared to the Palestinians who have gotten more and more extreme and emboldened over time as a society as the world feeds their victim complex and makes excuses for their terrorism.

4. Yea right. You want to know how uncorrupt and fantastic a Palestinian state would be? Go ahead and take a look at any other Muslim or Arab country, you'll have your answer. It'll end up a corrupt, violent, intolerant shithole.

5. I'm talking about those who live in Palestine, those who live in the greater region of the Middle East, and those who live in regions disconnected from all this. When it comes to certain issues; Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, however you want to classify them, are easily manipulated and follow a very simple hive mentality. Including intelligent/educated ones.

But at this point we seem to have reached an impasse now, as a few of our points have become redundant. So I think I'm going to drop this here. And while we don't really see eye to eye on this issue at all, I do appreciate the fact that you're clearly knowledgeable and articulate, and perhaps most importantly, incredibly civil. So cheers to you, it was a stimulating debate.

 

[Parul]

Rocket sirens sounded in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon and Israeli communities north of the Gaza Strip on Thursday evening.

This is a developing story:


Rocket sirens sound in southern Israel near Gaza border

Here we Go:

https://twitter.com/x/status/938808732695322625

 

[Antiguy]

Iran going to fund Hamas. Hamas going to kill more Israelis. And then Israelis retaliate.

But I expect this time, as sole Muslim nuclear power, Pakistan also going to be involved in this matter.

Highly unlikely. They themselves are drowned in so much shit. They have a lot of other issues to take care of.

 

[Levina]

Will POTUS Trump move to recognize Jerusalem as Capital of Israel and shift US Embassy lead to new chaos in Middle East?

Please give your views for a fruitful discussion.

Not at all, infact there could not have been a better point in history than this to take make this move. I will call this a MASTER STROKE.
These are two main reasons why middle east will not be moved by the decision on ground, albeit verbal spats can be expected to keep the show going>>>


1. Al saud and Israel now share military inelligence, this is done to keep Iran under check. An enemy’s enemy is a friend. Iran is mos def a bigger enemy than Israel rigt now.

2. Who doesnt know of America’s involvement in crown prince MBS’s decisions against Qatar and arrest of 12 (rich) royals was backed by USA?
MBS is being effectively mentored by ppl who are pro-America.
So I dont think deep inside his heart MBS would have anything against this decision. But Jerusalem is an emotional topic to hundreds and thousands of muslims across the world so this decision would not see any vocal support from MBS.




Another light hearted comment would be>>>
Since most of the anti-Trump camp believes Trump is controlled by Russia, lets assume Russia wanted USA to loose its support in ME and ergo forced Trump to “recognise” Israel. Lol

Dont forget that this point was for those who believe in conspiracy theories.

 

[NRJ]

Trump transcript in full: Jerusalem is Israel's capital

Here is the transcript of that announcement, made in the Diplomatic Reception Room of the White House on Wednesday, December 6.

"When I came into office, I promised to look at the world's challenges with open eyes and very fresh thinking. We cannot solve our problems by making the same failed assumptions and repeating the same failed strategies of the past. Old challenges demand new approaches.

My announcement today marks the beginning of a new approach to conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

In 1995, Congress adopted the Jerusalem Embassy Act, urging the federal government to relocate the American embassy to Jerusalem and to recognise that that city - and so importantly - is Israel's capital. This act passed Congress by an overwhelming bipartisan majority and was reaffirmed by a unanimous vote of the Senate only six months ago.

Yet, for over 20 years, every previous American president has exercised the law's waiver, refusing to move the US embassy to Jerusalem or to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital city.

Presidents issued these waivers under the belief that delaying the recognition of Jerusalem would advance the cause of peace. Some say they lacked courage, but they made their best judgments based on facts as they understood them at the time. Nevertheless, the record is in. After more than two decades of waivers, we are no closer to a lasting peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. It would be folly to assume that repeating the exact same formula would now produce a different or better result.

Therefore, I have determined that it is time to officially recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

While previous presidents have made this a major campaign promise, they failed to deliver. Today, I am delivering.

I've judged this course of action to be in the best interests of the United States of America and the pursuit of peace between Israel and the Palestinians. This is a long-overdue step to advance the peace process and to work towards a lasting agreement.

Israel is a sovereign nation with the right like every other sovereign nation to determine its own capital. Acknowledging this as a fact is a necessary condition for achieving peace.

But today, we finally acknowledge the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel's capital. This is nothing more, or less, than a recognition of reality. It is also the right thing to do. It's something that has to be done. - US PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP​

It was 70 years ago that the United States, under President Truman, recognised the State of Israel. Ever since then, Israel has made its capital in the city of Jerusalem - the capital the Jewish people established in ancient times. Today, Jerusalem is the seat of the modern Israeli government. It is the home of the Israeli parliament, the Knesset, as well as the Israeli Supreme Court. It is the location of the official residence of the prime minister and the president. It is the headquarters of many government ministries.

For decades, visiting American presidents, secretaries of state, and military leaders have met their Israeli counterparts in Jerusalem, as I did on my trip to Israel earlier this year.

Jerusalem is not just the heart of three great religions, but it is now also the heart of one of the most successful democracies in the world. Over the past seven decades, the Israeli people have built a country where Jews, Muslims, and Christians, and people of all faiths are free to live and worship according to their conscience and according to their beliefs.

Jerusalem is today, and must remain, a place where Jews pray at the Western Wall, where Christians walk the Stations of the Cross, and where Muslims worship at al-Aqsa Mosque.

Palestinians burn Israeli and US flags during a protest against the US intention to move its embassy to Jerusalem and to recognise the city as the capital of Israel, in Gaza City [Mohammed Salem/Reuters]

However, through all of these years, presidents representing the United States have declined to officially recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital. In fact, we have declined to acknowledge any Israeli capital at all.

But today, we finally acknowledge the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel's capital. This is nothing more, or less, than a recognition of reality. It is also the right thing to do. It's something that has to be done.

That is why, consistent with the Jerusalem Embassy Act, I am also directing the State Department to begin preparation to move the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. This will immediately begin the process of hiring architects, engineers, and planners, so that a new embassy, when completed, will be a magnificent tribute to peace.

In making these announcements, I also want to make one point very clear: This decision is not intended, in any way, to reflect a departure from our strong commitment to facilitate a lasting peace agreement. We want an agreement that is a great deal for the Israelis and a great deal for the Palestinians. We are not taking a position on any final status issues, including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders. Those questions are up to the parties involved.

The United States remains deeply committed to helping facilitate a peace agreement that is acceptable to both sides. I intend to do everything in my power to help forge such an agreement. Without question, Jerusalem is one of the most sensitive issues in those talks. The United States would support a two-state solution if agreed to by both sides.

In the meantime, I call on all parties to maintain the status quo at Jerusalem's holy sites, including the Temple Mount, also known as Haram al-Sharif.

Above all, our greatest hope is for peace, the universal yearning in every human soul. With today's action, I reaffirm my administration's long-standing commitment to a future of peace and security for the region.

There will, of course, be disagreement and dissent regarding this announcement. But we are confident that ultimately, as we work through these disagreements, we will arrive at a peace and a place far greater in understanding and cooperation.

This sacred city should call forth the best in humanity, lifting our sights to what it is possible; not pulling us back and down to the old fights that have become so totally predictable. Peace is never beyond the grasp of those willing to reach.


So today, we call for calm, for moderation, and for the voices of tolerance to prevail over the purveyors of hate. Our children should inherit our love, not our conflicts.

I repeat the message I delivered at the historic and extraordinary summit in Saudi Arabia earlier this year: The Middle East is a region rich with culture, spirit, and history. Its people are brilliant, proud, and diverse, vibrant and strong. But the incredible future awaiting this region is held at bay by bloodshed, ignorance, and terror.

Vice President Pence will travel to the region in the coming days to reaffirm our commitment to work with partners throughout the Middle East to defeat radicalism that threatens the hopes and dreams of future generations.

It is time for the many who desire peace to expel the extremists from their midst. It is time for all civilized nations, and people, to respond to disagreement with reasoned debate - not violence.

And it is time for young and moderate voices all across the Middle East to claim for themselves a bright and beautiful future.

So today, let us rededicate ourselves to a path of mutual understanding and respect. Let us rethink old assumptions and open our hearts and minds to possible and possibilities. And finally, I ask the leaders of the region - political and religious; Israeli and Palestinian; Jewish and Christian and Muslim - to join us in the noble quest for lasting peace.

Thank you. God bless you. God bless Israel. God bless the Palestinians. And God bless the United States. Thank you very much. Thank you."

Source>>

 

[NRJ]

https://twitter.com/x/status/939069739271258113

 

[Parul]

Five reasons why Trump recognising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel won't destroy peace in the Middle East

Vandalised graffiti depicting the US President is Painted on Israel’s controversial separation barrier in the West Bank city of Bethlehem Getty
Amid the cacophony of reports, comments and tweets by Middle East analysts and world leaders on the US President’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, and plans to relocate the embassy to the holy city, one broad conclusion seems to be shared by most: that it will serve as a “death knell” for the peace process. The decision, so the thinking goes, not only sends a signal to the Palestinians that the US is no longer “an honest broker”, but also prevents the possibility of a compromise over Jerusalem, one of the more contentious issues within negotiations for a final peace agreement.

However, as with so much thinking within the echo chamber of the elite about “root causes” of the impasse between the two parties, the alarmist reaction to the announcement from Washington regarding the injurious impact on peace seems divorced from reality, and ignores facts which run counter to the conclusion.

Here are five reasons why you should treat such claims with scepticism:

It doesn’t impact potential Israeli concessions over Jerusalem

The President’s announcement noted that his administration was “not taking a position of any final status issues, including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem or the resolution of contested borders”.
Indeed, even Israeli leaders who use rhetoric about an “undivided Jerusalem” have, in reality, made painful concessions about the future status of the city.
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Donald Trump officially recognises Jerusalem as Israel’s capital
For instance, despite the fact that, in 2008, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmertdeclared Jerusalem the “undivided” capital of Israel, his peace offer to Mahmoud Abbas that same year included a Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem.

It does not change facts on the ground in Jerusalem

Though Israelis from across the political spectrum enthusiastically support the change in US policy, and view it as a mere recognition of reality (Jerusalem is where Israel’s legislature, Supreme Court and most government ministries are located), most realise that its value is largely symbolic.
Life in the city, for both Israelis and Palestinians, will go on as usual. Despite incendiary rhetoric from Palestinian leaders suggesting the decision is a “declaration of war”, the fact is that Muslim access to holy sites such as the Temple Mount, as Israel’s Prime Minister made clear in a video message today, will not change.

The embassy move is not inconsistent with Palestinian aspirations in Jerusalem

It seems virtually certain that the new US embassy, when it’s built a few years from now, will be located in west Jerusalem – in itself representing US recognition of Palestinian aspirations for a capital in east Jerusalem.

It may force Palestinians to engage in serious peace talks

A lot of Palestinian discourse denies not only Jews’ rights and history in the land of Israel, but erases the 3,000-year Jewish connection to Jerusalem.

Yasser Arafat, during peace talks in 2000, even reportedly denied that there was ever a Jewish temple in the city. Such deeply offensive and ahistorical claims sow serious doubts for Israelis that the Palestinians are genuinely committed to a peace that can only really be achieved through recognition of Jews’ inextricable connection to the land.

US affirmation of Jewish claims to their holiest city may help convince Palestinians that a campaign to rhetorically wipe Jerusalem off the Israeli map will not succeed, and that only by acknowledging Jews’ legitimate claims will they receive reciprocal Israeli recognition of their claims.

It may give Israelis more confidence about the peace process

Israelis have long viewed the denial of the right granted to every other nation to name their capital as not only a historic injustice, but an illustration of the international community’s systemic bias against the Jewish state.

Israelis soured on the peace process (though not on peace itself) in large part because of the Second Intifada, as well as the disastrous impact of territorial withdrawals, but also due to concerns that they’re always held to higher standards than the Palestinians.

Protests erupt after Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Whereas every new home built across the green line prompts outrage by the US, EU and UN, Israelis believe that Palestinians are granted a kind of moral impunity which allows them to escape rebuke for even the most egregiously irresponsible actions and rhetoric.
Contrary to oft-repeated media narratives, Israelis have not “moved right”; they have merely grown sceptical that peace can be achieved without a commitment by the West to impute moral agency to the Palestinians and demand that their leaders cease inculcating their people with propaganda denying Jewish history and Israel’s unreserved rights to the land.

Whatever one’s views of the intentions of the 45th president, the message sent yesterday from the White House represented hope for Israelis, much needed tough love for the Palestinians and a clean break from the conventional “wisdom” which has governed, and arguably doomed, the peace process for decades.
Adam Levick is the managing editor of UK Media Watch

Five reasons why Trump recognising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel won't destroy peace in the Middle East

 

[dray]

Pakistan launches international diplomatic campaign against US Jerusalem move, Russia China contacted
Posted By: News Deskon: December 08, 2017Tags: Jerusalem, Pakistan-Palestine

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Pakistan has decided to launch an international diplomatic campaign against the US decision, Tribune has reported. The issue will also be raised on all international forums, including the United Nations.
The government in Islamabad would convince the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) to announce a joint and coordinated strategy in its forthcoming meeting in Turkey against the US ‘controversial’ decision and increase pressure on Trump to withdraw his decision.

They said that Pakistan will extend its full support to the OIC in case of a decision of Muslim Ummah limiting or suspending diplomatic or trade relations with the United States.
Top authorities, while devising a strategy to raise the issue on international forums, have reviewed effects of the decision on the Ummah and the world at large.

The Foreign Office has already started contacting important countries – including China, Russia, Britain and France – and briefed them about the serious reservations and apprehensions of the Muslim world on the issue.

Sources also said Pakistan wants a coordinated strategy in the upcoming meeting of the UN Security Council. The UN should increase pressure on the Trump administration to withdraw the decision immediately, they added.

Pakistan is also contacting UN Secretary- General António Guterres and the Islamic countries.

Pakistan launches international diplomatic campaign against US Jerusalem move, Russia China contacted

 

[Parul]

https://twitter.com/x/status/939006911629869056

 

[Arbit]

When you are in a oven, a 100 degrees will kill ya and 150 degrees kill ya. After a point the number is a mere statistic. Same is the case here. Infact I believe it will settle things down as it will take another issue out of the simmering pot and things will settle down a couple years down the line to about the same level as now. A few spikes not withstanding.
This decision will strengthen Israel and provide the opposing sides with fait accompli. To resolve the dispute one must lose. One step in that direction. Not really a bad decision in my opinion.

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

This should have been done 22 years ago when US was in a much stronger position to squash anything that happened.

Perfect time for Palestine to come to the table but they won't and never will because the last 22 years has proven that peace can never come while one Jew is breathing.

This is not a healthy way of saying something.. Hope you will refrain from it in future.

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

This whole thing is not about changing the stand or coming out in open by usa nor it is just because of jew love of usa.

The reason in my opinion is quite simple and repetitive.. After downfall of ISIS... There is no more monsters to kill and save Middle East from it. Right now only our round and rigorously beautiful dictator in eastern asia is only important and media serious threat to the democracy and that's world away from Middle East.


The petrodoller dictate that USA should be in neighborhood and always act like bully who offers safety for your lunch money.

This act will create another terrorist organization who will cry death to umerica and the kings in thier palaces will tumble.

At the end it will be open season 46 in Middle East.

 

[randomradio]

There will be some rockets fired into Israel. Some protests will happen in Muslim countries. Then life will go on.

 

[A Person]

What this means is basically that the USA have one less carrot to entice the Israeli to commit to an actual peace plan.

 

[Parul]

This is not a healthy way of saying something.. Hope you will refrain from it in future.

That's the best I could do to Put the Brutal Fact. I try to contribute in healthier manner and if any of my Posts breaks forum's norms, feel free to take necessary action against it.

PS: You can start an IM and tell me how I could have put this in a healthier way.

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

That's the best I could do to Put the Brutal Fact. I try to contribute in healthier manner and if any of my Posts breaks forum's norms, feel free to take necessary action against it.

PS: You can start an IM and tell me how I could have put this in a healthier way.

If you remove the statement about a jew and his disagreement with peace all will be good.

 

[Parul]

If you remove the statement about a jew and his disagreement with peace all will be good.

I stand with what I said about Jew(s). I can post(s) 100's of Youtube Videos of the Prominent First World and Islamic Countries Imams/Muftis/Scholars to prove my Point or type it detail. However, it won't go well with forums Administrators, including you. I'd rather suggest you to visit any Madrasas near your place and learn what is thought about 'Jew(s), or Browse Youtube.

Do let me know if one has to be Politically correct like Politicians while debating here? I will refrain myself from engaging in such topics, including Indian Politics.

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

I stand with what I said about Jew(s). I can post(s) 100's of Youtube Videos of the Prominent First World and Islamic Countries Imams/Muftis/Scholars to prove my Point or type it detail. However, it won't go well with forums Administrators, including you. I'd rather suggest you to visit any Madrasas near your place and learn what is thought about 'Jew(s), or Browse Youtube.

Do let me know if one has to be Politically correct like Politicians while debating here? I will refrain myself from engaging in such topics, including Indian Politics.

You have your beliefs and i have mine.
Hate by one is not justified to use as reason to hate by others.

You can stand with what you say but that doesn't make it right.

Please don't express such negative opinions which comes closure to religious hate.

I sincerely believe that we can debate all that is under sun and beyond without passing out general statements and without insulting anyone.

Your contribution is welcome in all threads.. The only thing is we all should fallow rules.. It can make life interesting and debates forthcoming.