Zorawar: Light tank for Indian army

marich01 said:

L&T gets order to build prototype of light tank for Sino-India border,​



www.business-standard.com

L&T gets order to build prototype of light tank for Sino-India border

Defence Sector: To be optimised for extreme cold, high altitude of Ladakh, Arunachal Pradesh
www.business-standard.com www.business-standard.com
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Canon for Belgium, engine/transmission from Germany... God I am waiting for this 25 ton joke 🤣

If this is DRDO's offer. I can 100% say that Israeli light tank offer will win with higher indigenous content.

My mistake, so the whole turret will be imported it seems.

John Cockerill 105mm turret gave this pic upon Google search. 20230414_214035.jpg
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Protection level 5 means only 20-25mm Armour Piercing Rounds.

A single 125mm round, heck a single RPG and this multi million dollar toy will be Ash.
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It's meant to support infantry via sensors, mobility and firepower. But yeah, the Type 15 will kill it.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
Chinese infantry with RPG type weapons will kill it. A bmp2 will kill it.
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They will add ERA and add-on armour, perhaps even APS. The main threat will be a tank gun from the front.

In any case, the range of the gun will be high enough to defeat smaller threats with just firepower. A 30mm cannon from over 2Km won't be as effective. RPGs don't have range, getting close to tanks isn't easy. ATGMs will be the next big threat to it after tanks.
Ankit Kumar said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1646922532568862721

Sabrah Light Tank
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K21-105 is more likely to win. It has STANAG Level 5 in the front and Level 4 on the sides.

So I guess 45-50 DRDO+L&T tanks and 300+ of the K21s.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1646910230989791232
The same is used on Turkish Kaplan Light Tank (it's 35 tons)

View attachment 27375
View attachment 27376
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At least it got APS , which most of our tanks probably dont have yet ( there was news in 2021 about APS integration on 818 indian tanks ) .

That acoustic gun shot detection system i have heard twice before

First from CDAC a govt of india organization .


And then from gridbot technology , a indian defence company

https://twitter.com/x/status/1588439347103424512
 
randomradio said:
They will add ERA and add-on armour, perhaps even APS. The main threat will be a tank gun from the front.
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I am just wondering the rate of fire of typical 30+ mm canon. That's like 5 rounds per second right? Say the tank and the IFV of China spot each other at the same time, by the time Zorawar will fire a shell at it, it would have easily fired 15+ rounds.

Now I am wondering how many rounds do a typical APS carry? Definitely not enough to counter them I suppose....

randomradio said:
2Km
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What you basically are saying is that it's Indian equivalent to AMX 10. A big gun on a lightly protected platform.

Cannot do anything against tanks but is cheap and light and hopefully if we throw enough at China, we will exhaust their ammo???
 
Ankit Kumar said:
I am just wondering the rate of fire of typical 30+ mm canon. That's like 5 rounds per second right? Say the tank and the IFV of China spot each other at the same time, by the time Zorawar will fire a shell at it, it would have easily fired 15+ rounds.

Now I am wondering how many rounds do a typical APS carry? Definitely not enough to counter them I suppose....
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APS can't stop 30mm. But Zorawar will have first shot capability with its bigger gun.

Ankit Kumar said:
What you basically are saying is that it's Indian equivalent to AMX 10. A big gun on a lightly protected platform.

Cannot do anything against tanks but is cheap and light and hopefully if we throw enough at China, we will exhaust their ammo???
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The point is to kill the enemy before it can react. As a tank, you have bigger and better sensors along with a higher vantage point, perhaps including an ISR drone. Plus you are protected by other tanks, infantry and their vehicles, scout helicopters, forward spotters, drones etc. So you use those traits and that extra firepower to kill the enemy well before it can react to the tank.

There is a psychological aspect to it as well. Since a tank doesn't operate alone, it has other tanks protecting its flank, the enemy unit engaging the tank may see success against the main tank, but may lose to the flanks. You attacking the tank would also mean your death a moment later in the hands of another tank, so it's a very hard decision to make.

The more well-trained and professional a tank crew is, the harder it is for non-tank units to kill a tank.
 
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randomradio said:
APS can't stop 30mm. But Zorawar will have first shot capability with its bigger gun.



The point is to kill the enemy before it can react. As a tank, you have bigger and better sensors along with a higher vantage point, perhaps including an ISR drone. Plus you are protected by other tanks, infantry and their vehicles, scout helicopters, forward spotters, drones etc. So you use those traits and that extra firepower to kill the enemy well before it can react to the tank.

There is a psychological aspect to it as well. Since a tank doesn't operate alone, it has other tanks protecting its flank, the enemy unit engaging the tank may see success against the main tank, but may lose to the flanks. You attacking the tank would also mean your death a moment later in the hands of another tank, so it's a very hard decision to make.

The more well-trained and professional a tank crew is, the harder it is for non-tank units to kill a tank.
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You do realise that you do not need to defend every idiotic move by Army /MoD/PMO/DRDO/DPSUs?
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Canon for Belgium, engine/transmission from Germany... God I am waiting for this 25 ton joke 🤣

If this is DRDO's offer. I can 100% say that Israeli light tank offer will win with higher indigenous content.

My mistake, so the whole turret will be imported it seems.

John Cockerill 105mm turret gave this pic upon Google search. View attachment 27374
Click to expand...
This turret is the best available in the market.


You want to wait for engine and turret maturity by DRDO ?
 
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Ashwin said:
This turret is the best available in the market.


You want to wait for engine and turret maturity by DRDO ?
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MTU import isn't a problem, because that means German transmission too. Compact and reliable. But importing a whole turret?

120mm rifled gun is present in DRDO. We have successfully replicated a 125mm smoothbore system too. Why shouldn't we be self sufficient in making a turret capable to withstand a 25mm AP round with a 12.7mm RWS and TI for all?

Nothing against the Belgian turret. That's a proven system. But we are already half way and we are going in reverse. This is not done.
 
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randomradio said:
They will add ERA and add-on armour, perhaps even APS. The main threat will be a tank gun from the front.

In any case, the range of the gun will be high enough to defeat smaller threats with just firepower. A 30mm cannon from over 2Km won't be as effective. RPGs don't have range, getting close to tanks isn't easy. ATGMs will be the next big threat to it after tanks.


K21-105 is more likely to win. It has STANAG Level 5 in the front and Level 4 on the sides.

So I guess 45-50 DRDO+L&T tanks and 300+ of the K21s.
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If indigenous system is already available from drdo/l&t then what is the need of even considering foreign system.

Rest Every country give full commitment to their indigenous systems only here these dalal generals are running the shit show so that they can get commission.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
MTU import isn't a problem, because that means German transmission too. Compact and reliable. But importing a whole turret?

120mm rifled gun is present in DRDO. We have successfully replicated a 125mm smoothbore system too. Why shouldn't we be self sufficient in making a turret capable to withstand a 25mm AP round with a 12.7mm RWS and TI for all?

Nothing against the Belgian turret. That's a proven system. But we are already half way and we are going in reverse. This is not done.
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Indigenous alternative do not exist other than in drawings.

The main reason why every drdo project fail to miss deadlines or weight constraints is because they try to do everything from scratch. Appreciate the fact that they are trying to do something different with a private group for a change. Lets hope for the best.
 
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Ashwin said:
Indigenous alternative do not exist other than in drawings.

The main reason why every drdo project fail to miss deadlines or weight constraints is because they try to do everything from scratch. Appreciate the fact that they are trying to do something different with a private group for a change. Lets hope for the best.
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Everything is wrong with this project. The desired specifications, the method of working, the method of procurment, etc.

This method could have been implemented easily by Tata or mahindra alone too. Didn't called for association of DRDO.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
Everything is wrong with this project. The desired specifications, the method of working, the method of procurment, etc.

This method could have been implemented easily by Tata or mahindra alone too. Didn't called for association of DRDO.
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Desired 25ton will become the biggest handicap but thats on Army no one else.

Why do you think private player can do it alone? Have they done it before for ICV let alone light tank?. Also, who stopped them competing?
 
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randomradio said:
They will add ERA and add-on armour, perhaps even APS. The main threat will be a tank gun from the front.

In any case, the range of the gun will be high enough to defeat smaller threats with just firepower. A 30mm cannon from over 2Km won't be as effective. RPGs don't have range, getting close to tanks isn't easy. ATGMs will be the next big threat to it after tanks.
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Forget it all. A cheap drone with a bomb will make short work of this. China has way too many of them. Why waste man power when you have drones?

And MAN!!! Why Cann't HAL make a ITJ in 26 FOOKEN YEARS!

India is fighting 1940s battle in 2023.
 
Saaho said:
Forget it all. A cheap drone with a bomb will make short work of this. China has way too many of them. Why waste man power when you have drones?

And MAN!!! Why Cann't HAL make a ITJ in 26 FOOKEN YEARS!

India is fighting 1940s battle in 2023.
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If you are talking about rustam , archer etc those are DRDO project . HAL is working on some drone projects with a private company named new space and those ll come out with in few years . Their swarm drone was delivered recently . And tanks are not obsolete just because there are videos of them getting blown . People always see what was done to the tank , armoured vehicle , not what tank and armoured vehicle did . Regarding loiter munition , swarm drones india has many options available for LAC . Regarding male/hale drone , read about project cheetah . For hale drone , we are buying American drone .
 
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