Zorawar: Light tank for Indian army

[PhotonVish]

Lvl 5/6 frontal 60° arc, preferably lvl 4 sides, lvl 2 for non-imp stuff and preferably lvl 3B/4 blast.

Then also add optional ERA and other add-ons.

Nope, no active defence system can protect from 30mm apfsds except armour

Chinese use 2a42 30mm, but as time progress, the same 2a42 will have more lethal ammos

If a tank can not even survive an ifv bullets then its a shame in the name of tank, and yeah, there will be lots of light tank-ifv battle as IFV(Chinese) weight less than 20 tonnes.

ATGM and drones can be handled by APS, bot bullets.

T72 is around 40 tonnes, so with modern light armour, my below requirement can easily be met under 35 tonnes.

Here is my excerpt from other comment:
------------------->

-> My ideal himalyan tank would be the plateform which can:
1) defeat Any ground vehical
2) can not be defeated by any non-tank ammunition fired by any ground vehical in a dual

-> Hence this is my desired requirement:
1) can easily sustain 30×173 mm APFSDS rounds from front at any angle and distance
2) sides: stanag level 5/6
3) crew less turret for crew safety
4) automatic target tracking and engagement with IFF system
5) automatic traget neutralisation using HMG and active protection system ( for drones and ATGM )
6) ATGM with top attack mode

 

[Lolwa]

Nope, no active defence system can protect from 30mm apfsds except armour

Chinese use 2a42 30mm, but as time progress, the same 2a42 will have more lethal ammos

If a tank can not even survive an ifv bullets then its a shame in the name of tank, and yeah, there will be lots of light tank-ifv battle as IFV(Chinese) weight less than 20 tonnes.

ATGM and drones can be handled by APS, bot bullets.

T72 is around 40 tonnes, so with modern light armour, my below requirement can easily be met under 35 tonnes.

Here is my excerpt from other comment:
------------------->

-> My ideal himalyan tank would be the plateform which can:
1) defeat Any ground vehical
2) can not be defeated by any non-tank ammunition fired by any ground vehical in a dual

-> Hence this is my desired requirement:
1) can easily sustain 30×173 mm APFSDS rounds from front at any angle and distance
2) sides: stanag level 5/6
3) crew less turret for crew safety
4) automatic target tracking and engagement with IFF system
5) automatic traget neutralisation using HMG and active protection system ( for drones and ATGM )
6) ATGM with top attack mode

We have thousands of t-55 which are 35tons give or take, up engine, up gun them for fulfilling the requirement. Heck put in the Zorawar engine and the cockerill turret on the t-55 and cover it with Kontakt 5/NGERA and you have a light tank with stang level 6 protection on all sides except the roof.

 

[RandomGoober]

Uhhh...

Bro do you even know what STANAG 4569 levels are?

And where did I say APS defeating AP rounds???

Nope, no active defence system can protect from 30mm apfsds except armour

Chinese use 2a42 30mm, but as time progress, the same 2a42 will have more lethal ammos

If a tank can not even survive an ifv bullets then its a shame in the name of tank, and yeah, there will be lots of light tank-ifv battle as IFV(Chinese) weight less than 20 tonnes.

ATGM and drones can be handled by APS, bot bullets.

T72 is around 40 tonnes, so with modern light armour, my below requirement can easily be met under 35 tonnes.

Here is my excerpt from other comment:
------------------->

-> My ideal himalyan tank would be the plateform which can:
1) defeat Any ground vehical
2) can not be defeated by any non-tank ammunition fired by any ground vehical in a dual

-> Hence this is my desired requirement:
1) can easily sustain 30×173 mm APFSDS rounds from front at any angle and distance
2) sides: stanag level 5/6
3) crew less turret for crew safety
4) automatic target tracking and engagement with IFF system
5) automatic traget neutralisation using HMG and active protection system ( for drones and ATGM )
6) ATGM with top attack mode

 

[Speedster1]

Well, the silver lining is that Sprut-SD is DOA.

There's no way that miserable 18t hull could be up-armoured to meet the IAs latest demands. Unless they practically redesign the whole damn thing.

Afaik, the only other tracked LT on the int'l market is the Turkish Kaplan which wouldn't be available to us for obvious reasons.

Imo, unless CV90/BMP-3/ASCOD were offered with 105mm turrets, it's going to be a 2 horse race between Zorawar and whatever Kalyani comes up with.

 

[PhotonVish]

We have thousands of t-55 which are 35tons give or take, up engine, up gun them for fulfilling the requirement. Heck put in the Zorawar engine and the cockerill turret on the t-55 and cover it with Kontakt 5/NGERA and you have a light tank with stang level 6 protection on all sides except the roof.

Well there is called a term "vehical life span".

Advantage of my specs light tank over your modified T-55:
1) much less maintain cost
2) much much better availability
3) much much better reliability
4) proper integration(due to dedicated development path with such specs in mind) with IFF , Radars for drone and ATGM neutralisation
5) Indian IP and hence export potential
6) Dont need to beg to Russia for any parts
7) much better protection for same weight(due to advancement in armour tech)

Anyways, any sovit tank , even T-34 can be modified to the level of T-90, that does not mean its rational to do that, maintainance, reliability and availability. These 3 factors are more imp than the raw specs of any equipment which needed to be used in harsh environment

 

[PhotonVish]

Uhhh...

Bro do you even know what STANAG 4569 levels are?

And where did I say APS defeating AP rounds???
View attachment 52149

I guess u don't know about STANG 4569

STANG 4569 level is always defined at certain ranges and certain condition.

Again read my prev comment, i said, "can easily sustain 30×173 mm APFSDS rounds from front at any angle and distance"

I am not stupid to say that side armour should be STANAG 4569 level 5/6.
(Btw , even level 6 on side <side and front is very different> does not guarantee that it can stop APFSDS even in prescribed condition, STANAG 4569 is more that just a chart).

And for "APS defeating AP rounds" u did mentioned it implicitly when u mentioned that it dont need to be STANG 4569 level 6 for sides(and level 6 can only stop it in certain conditions).

 

[YoungWolf]

unless CV90/BMP-3/ASCOD were offered with 105mm turrets

CV90-105 comes with Cockerill XC-8 turret, features a 105mm gun and weighs around 22.5-25tons, depending on the armour config installed. Powered by a 1000hp engine from Scania. It's 120mm gun equipped variant weighs around 32-35tons (up to 40 tons with heavier armour and 200 extra hp to keep similar mobility as 90-105).

ASCOD-2 Sabrah comes with Elbit's 105mm gun (manned turret) and weights around 30-32 tons. Would be interesting to see if IA sends RfI to Sweden and Austria/Spain or keeps it in-house, like you mentioned, between L&T's Zorawar and Kalyani's LT.

 

[BoredBear]

CV90-105 comes with Cockerill XC-8 turret, features a 105mm gun and weighs around 22.5-25tons, depending on the armour config installed. Powered by a 1000hp engine from Scania. It's 120mm gun equipped variant weighs around 32-35tons (up to 40 tons with heavier armour and 200 extra hp to keep similar mobility as 90-105).

ASCOD-2 Sabrah comes with Elbit's 105mm gun (manned turret) and weights around 30-32 tons. Would be interesting to see if IA sends RfI to Sweden and Austria/Spain or keeps it in-house, like you mentioned, between L&T's Zorawar and Kalyani's LT.

What are the available armour configs on CV90-105?

 

[Lolwa]

Well there is called a term "vehical life span".

Advantage of my specs light tank over your modified T-55:
1) much less maintain cost
2) much much better availability
3) much much better reliability
4) proper integration(due to dedicated development path with such specs in mind) with IFF , Radars for drone and ATGM neutralisation
5) Indian IP and hence export potential
6) Dont need to beg to Russia for any parts
7) much better protection for same weight(due to advancement in armour tech)

Anyways, any sovit tank , even T-34 can be modified to the level of T-90, that does not mean its rational to do that, maintainance, reliability and availability. These 3 factors are more imp than the raw specs of any equipment which needed to be used in harsh environment

Why does everyone have such myopic view? The t-55 needs to be completely indigenised and a medium tank should be made using the t-55 as the base. Considering the Chinese have already upgraded their own t-55's and have used them in ladakh region. Giving the upgrade program to private industry so that they can get experience and we can get hardware that can be used in ladakh by the time Zorawar get ready on the side. It will help the industry too.

 

[BoredBear]

Idk how reliable war thunder is but this is what I got from there regarding CV-90 105mm variant..Is this accurate?

 

[Lolwa]

We have thousands of t-55 which are 35tons give or take, up engine, up gun them for fulfilling the requirement. Heck put in the Zorawar engine and the cockerill turret on the t-55 and cover it with Kontakt 5/NGERA and you have a light tank with stang level 6 protection on all sides except the roof.

For comparison the OG t-55's use a 580 hp engine. The Cummins is a 780-800 hp engine it will make t-55's super quick. Just need to refurbish them.

 

[RandomGoober]

I guess u don't know about STANG 4569

STANG 4569 level is always defined at certain ranges and certain condition.

Again read my prev comment, i said, "can easily sustain 30×173 mm APFSDS rounds from front at any angle and distance"

I am not stupid to say that side armour should be STANAG 4569 level 5/6.
(Btw , even level 6 on side <side and front is very different> does not guarantee that it can stop APFSDS even in prescribed condition, STANAG 4569 is more that just a chart).

And for "APS defeating AP rounds" u did mentioned it implicitly when u mentioned that it dont need to be STANG 4569 level 6 for sides(and level 6 can only stop it in certain conditions).

Yea sorry but these tralalero tralala goals are simply unattainable.

 

[YoungWolf]

What are the available armour configs on CV90-105?

That's a rather specific question, one I couldn't find a satisfactory answer for. CV90-105 is an export specific model, so armour config would ultimately depend on the level of protection the end user wants and how it fits within the operational requirements and weight desired of the platform, per the SQR.

 

[BoredBear]

That's a rather specific question, one I couldn't find a satisfactory answer for. CV90-105 is an export specific model, so armour config would ultimately depend on the level of protection the end user wants and how it fits within the operational requirements and weight desired of the platform, per the SQR.

I see thanks for the honest answer.
Do you what's the base armour config?

Will it still gonna be under 25 tons with the type of protection IA wants on Zorawar if we have to believe the Article by Manu Pubby?

 

[YoungWolf]

I see thanks for the honest answer.
Do you what's the base armour config?

Will it still gonna be under 25 tons with the type of protection IA wants on Zorawar if we have to believe the Article by Manu Pubby?

Well, if my memory serves me correctly, Zorawar/LT has a provision of roughly 10% margin for weight increase, so it's not too bad a situation I'd say. Too early to say, but weight increase is a given with increase in protection levels.