Attack Helicopters of IAF - LCH Prachand, AH-64E Apache : Updates & Discussions

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HAL main outreach has been in African region, a bit in latino region in SA.

 
marich01 said:
HAL main outreach has been in African region, a bit in latino region in SA.

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Strange that they'd buy three different types of AH. Heck, even the Pakistanis were trying to pull off something similar with the AH-1Z (stalled), T-129 (export denied due to US components) and Mi-35 recently.

You can't buy political leverage in Western capitals with helicopters like Qatar did with multiple 4.5G fighter purchases, can you? Tactical vs strategic, after all.
 
IAF has managed to recover the Apache that had to be landed north of Khardung La pass, at a height of 18,380 feet. The copter had carried out a precautionary landing during an operational sortie in April this year. The recovery was carried out by a team of specialist mountaineers and engineers.
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They essentially field stripped the helicopter & then loaded it on a truck. Apparently, the airframe has sustained some damage during landing. The helo will have to be sent to the Boeing facility in Hyderabad.
 
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Gautam said:
IAF has managed to recover the Apache that had to be landed north of Khardung La pass, at a height of 18,380 feet. The copter had carried out a precautionary landing during an operational sortie in April this year. The recovery was carried out by a team of specialist mountaineers and engineers.
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They essentially field stripped the helicopter & then loaded it on a truck. Apparently, the airframe has sustained some damage during landing. The helo will have to be sent to the Boeing facility in Hyderabad.
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What happened to the follow on purchase of Apaches? Heard that IA going to oreder a lucrative numbers of Apache.
 
Hydra said:
What happened to the follow on purchase of Apaches? Heard that IA going to oreder a lucrative numbers of Apache.
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They want a total of 39 apparently with 6 on order and another 22 with the IAF. So they might push for the remainder.

I'm hoping that as part of theaterisation, this wasteful duplication of resources where two services buy, operate and maintain the same damn platform separately comes to an end. The Army deal cost us some $800M for 6 birds iirc.

In fact, the CDS should put his foot down and transfer control of IAF Apaches to the Army or at least set up a Joint Helo Command (like Singapore or the UK) for common training and maintenance.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Exactly, that's a major question.

Self Protection Suites and ATGM certified?
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Quite a few years away, possibly around 2028 or so, to get basic numbers with full capabilities. Any cumulative effects will be felt only in the 2030s. The level of infrastucture necessary in the mountains will be crazy, the only good news being it uses quite a bit of the Dhruv/Rudra infra.

Right now we do not even know when the contract will be placed.
 
Speedster1 said:
They want a total of 39 apparently with 6 on order and another 22 with the IAF. So they might push for the remainder.

I'm hoping that as part of theaterisation, this wasteful duplication of resources where two services buy, operate and maintain the same damn platform separately comes to an end. The Army deal cost us some $800M for 6 birds iirc.

In fact, the CDS should put his foot down and transfer control of IAF Apaches to the Army or at least set up a Joint Helo Command (like Singapore or the UK) for common training and maintenance.
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The IAF Apaches shouldn't be touched, they are necessary for some important missions. No matter what number the IA finally ends up with, I'd still like to see the IAF getting their full complement of 2 squadrons. Hope it becomes an option as our financial muscle increases. After all, these are just rookie numbers when it comes to helicopters. We have barely scratched the surface.

While combining orders is a good thing, we are only doing it for domestic orders, like LCH. But we are attempting this with the Guardian drones. But these are only possible right now for direct purchase deals like FMS, not tenders, the preferable route for bulk purchases. The long term objective is to end imports anyway, so it doesn't matter.
 
randomradio said:
The IAF Apaches shouldn't be touched, they are necessary for some important missions
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IAF attack helos like the Mi-35 exist to support ground forces. They are flown by AF crew but under Army control. But turf battles mean that the IAF can refuse taskings from the Army like it happened during Kargil. The only role I imagine the IAF might need heavy AHs for is CSAR behind enemy lines.

randomradio said:
No matter what number the IA finally ends up with, I'd still like to see the IAF getting their full complement of 2 squadrons. Hope it becomes an option as our financial muscle increases
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The AH is a tactical asset meant to help ground forces advance. The IAF sees itself as a strategic force and not flying artillery by its own admission. So why not give up AH assets to the Army and focus on strategic ops? These inter-service turf wars have and continue to cost the nation big time.
I'm not convinced we need a large fleet of imported Apaches over upgrading the LCH. Those machines cost $50M apiece for crying out loud.
 
Speedster1 said:
IAF attack helos like the Mi-35 exist to support ground forces. They are flown by AF crew but under Army control. But turf battles mean that the IAF can refuse taskings from the Army like it happened during Kargil. The only role I imagine the IAF might need heavy AHs for is CSAR behind enemy lines.
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The IA plans on taking over that role from the IAF. The IAF choppers do other things too, related to SF and the anti-air mision. Assault choppers are great for taking out radars and missile launchers.

Speedster1 said:
The AH is a tactical asset meant to help ground forces advance. The IAF sees itself as a strategic force and not flying artillery by its own admission. So why not give up AH assets to the Army and focus on strategic ops? These inter-service turf wars have and continue to cost the nation big time.
I'm not convinced we need a large fleet of imported Apaches over upgrading the LCH. Those machines cost $50M apiece for crying out loud.
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LCH is not entirely suitable for all of the IAF's mission profiles. For example, 20mm vs 30mm gun. Smaller payload, particularly has to choose between AAMs and ATGMs. The Americans have also developed specialist weapons and avioncs that we civvies are not aware of.

HAL plans to develop an Apache-equivalent after the IMRH.

In any case, with 2 main fronts, they need 2 squadrons at the minimum.
 
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randomradio said:
Assault choppers are great for taking out radars and missile launchers.
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Bro, we need local air superiority before we can send in attack helos to take out radars; especially in our scenrios. The Russians lost dozens of Ka-52s and Mi-28s - legit heavy attack birds armed to the gills + fulll spec MAWS+ DIRCM fits) to Ukranian ground fire before introducing glide bombs. Ze Germans are apparently phasing out their Tigers (Japan too) and replacing them with loitering munition/armed drones learning from the experience.

randomradio said:
The Americans have also developed specialist weapons and avioncs that we civvies are not aware of
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American stuff while certainly state of the art is not something we can afford. The won't give us all the top-notch stuff- laser pods, latest optics, JAGM, etc. The cost is a big factor. In fact, the IAF has deferred/cancelled plans to uy more Chinooks because of their sky high operating costs. Clearly, Apache can't do high altitude missions despite what Boeing would like you to believe. That leaves only the Pakistani front where the Apache can really dominate.

What we need is a medium tech, nimble attack helo that can deliver a decent warload on target and make it back to base. The LCH isn't there yet. It's EW and weapon suite is still being integrated but in time, it will give us the mass we need to back up the new IBGs.
 
Speedster1 said:
Bro, we need local air superiority before we can send in attack helos to take out radars; especially in our scenrios. The Russians lost dozens of Ka-52s and Mi-28s - legit heavy attack birds armed to the gills + fulll spec MAWS+ DIRCM fits) to Ukranian ground fire before introducing glide bombs. Ze Germans are apparently phasing out their Tigers (Japan too) and replacing them with loitering munition/armed drones learning from the experience.
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Not necessarily. Helos operate below radar horizon, so they are quite stealthy in that respect. And the Americans use Apaches for SEAD/DEAD 'cause of that.

Speedster1 said:
American stuff while certainly state of the art is not something we can afford. The won't give us all the top-notch stuff- laser pods, latest optics, JAGM, etc. The cost is a big factor. In fact, the IAF has deferred/cancelled plans to uy more Chinooks because of their sky high operating costs. Clearly, Apache can't do high altitude missions despite what Boeing would like you to believe. That leaves only the Pakistani front where the Apache can really dominate.
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They will give us everything that they themselves operate. It's not a top level tech like advanced fighter jets. We have sufficient NATO-level clearance.

That Apache high altitude thing is fake. It completed Leh trials. The Apache is cleared to operate up to 6 km with enough payload. LCH is better, but Apache makes the cut. Welcome to the Russian import lobby.

Speedster1 said:
What we need is a medium tech, nimble attack helo that can deliver a decent warload on target and make it back to base. The LCH isn't there yet. It's EW and weapon suite is still being integrated but in time, it will give us the mass we need to back up the new IBGs.
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Sure. But Apaches are better at this role. Payload matters a lot when you're an attack helicopter, specially when you can carry sufficient ATGMs and AAMs at the same time.
 
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