Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan

Pakistan, India agree to
normalise troop levels by
May-end: officials
GOI 🤡



Days after US brokered ceasefire between the arch-rivals, nuclear-armed Pakistan and India finally agreed to move back their forces to the peacetime positions along the along the Line of Control (LoC) and international border by May 30, a positive move that would help defuse tensions in the region, according to senior officials familiar with the development.
Pakistani officials say that
 
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1971 - we helped Pak (yes we did) by taking out their cancerous part. Free of the Bengali problem they could focus better on Kashmir. We did absolutely no lasting damage on the west.
This is a very wrong reading. Winning a war sends message to other foes too. Why do you think Chinese remained well behaved till chola incidence in 80s?

Not to mention, You have no fukken idea how bad things could have been if an east pakistan was also causing insurgency like west pakistan. You cut one hood of a two hooded snake. With Yunus, I guess you will see that if he is not crushed fast.
 
It's too early, it takes time for information to go down the chain. Since official media is biased, we have to depend on social media. And social media depends on influencers who push the narrative. The narrative now is pro-India. This time the incident was too short and too small for most Western mangoes to focus on. But the next time, with a bigger incident, the mangoes will ask questions to their local enthusiasts who have kept up, and if enough people become curious enough to notice that this is Pak's third chance, knowing how soft we were the first two times, they are less likely to be pro-Pak.

Anyway, Western mangoes have become desensitized to air strikes. Had we seen a ground invasion, it would have received far more traction. We can't compete with Israel-Hamas and Russia-Ukraine in terms of TRP. :LOL:
I can guarentee you that no god damned goodwill will be achieved AT ALL. West is extremely anti India at this moment because India has not been toeing their line and for the first time they can not do a single shit about it. Their love for Pakistan is exactly for this reason. It is controllable. India and China are NOT.

Even Trump who keep on yapping trade trade is not able to get a real fix on India or China, both of whom are defiant right now. You will NOT get any kind of sentiment towards India even if a million Indian babies were killed in full public view while literal Pakistani general crying allhu ackbar. For simple reason, India is NOT a country they can control anymore.

I am sure that the language used by likes of Eisenhower is back in white house, if it even left.

And leaving west everyone else is opportunisitic on a very small time frame.

We will get deals but no alliances. There is not any scope of alliance left anymore. West is right now too busy in controlling its on turf than to come allie with you. Heck there is infighting among west.

But fear not. Sooner than the later, west will need India's help again due to one reason or the other. You can make US and Europe pay through their nose when that time comes.

This entire diplomatic effort is bound to fail because it is still born. About time India drops all the pretence and just do a transactional deals with the west like China. We will NOT get anything from west in strategic terms because they have lost their ability to control strategic path themself.
 
I can guarentee you that no god damned goodwill will be achieved AT ALL. West is extremely anti India at this moment because India has not been toeing their line and for the first time they can not do a single shit about it. Their love for Pakistan is exactly for this reason. It is controllable. India and China are NOT.

Even Trump who keep on yapping trade trade is not able to get a real fix on India or China, both of whom are defiant right now. You will NOT get any kind of sentiment towards India even if a million Indian babies were killed in full public view while literal Pakistani general crying allhu ackbar. For simple reason, India is NOT a country they can control anymore.

I am sure that the language used by likes of Eisenhower is back in white house, if it even left.

And leaving west everyone else is opportunisitic on a very small time frame.

We will get deals but no alliances. There is not any scope of alliance left anymore. West is right now too busy in controlling its on turf than to come allie with you. Heck there is infighting among west.

But fear not. Sooner than the later, west will need India's help again due to one reason or the other. You can make US and Europe pay through their nose when that time comes.

This entire diplomatic effort is bound to fail because it is still born. About time India drops all the pretence and just do a transactional deals with the west like China. We will NOT get anything from west in strategic terms because they have lost their ability to control strategic path themself.

The media is against us and so are most govts. But as long as people have divided opinions, it works out in our favor.

Dealing with any govt, whether democratic or authoritarian, is the same. But in a democratic society, people have a lot of say.

So what we need is people asking questions. And when they start asking questions around Pakistan's terrorism and get biased answers from the media or govt versus what they can verify from reality, it only serves to weaken their own country via division. When they realize they are being fed fake news, that will force them to turn towards our sources. And if we create good sources for international news, we get propaganda points. The closer to the truth we are, the more trusted we become. When we create a verifiable train of good traits, that's when we gain moral dominance. That forces the govts to take less drastic steps against India 'cause their own propaganda is less effective.
 
This is a very wrong reading. Winning a war sends message to other foes too. Why do you think Chinese remained well behaved till chola incidence in 80s?

Not to mention, You have no fukken idea how bad things could have been if an east pakistan was also causing insurgency like west pakistan. You cut one hood of a two hooded snake. With Yunus, I guess you will see that if he is not crushed fast.

And you have absolutely no clue what the issue is neither the depth to appreciate it.

If this insurgency was allowed to fester just below the tipping point, Bangladesh would have been delayed by atleast a decade.

It would have been almost like Chechnya for Pakistan. A bottomless pit for armies, funds and careers.

The same Pakistan after the debacle would have a military thoroughly shattered, a broken economy and a population that would be rabidly anti khaki.

The human rights issues would have been enough to deny Pak western weapons for a long time.

Nuclear cooperation that allowed AQ to steal tech would have been harder.

Sometimes the obvious answer has long term ramifications. But no one can predict the future. What we can do is learn from the past.

So I m of the view - let Pak die a slow painful death. Op Sindoor and the others that will follow it are welcome. The moment Pak gets out of line slap it silly. Keep eroding the state.

It worked for the US against the USSR. No nuclear war, a pliant Russia for 20 + years. Now when Putin bared his fangs, he is grinding away his armies, his economy and his legacy against a mirage.
 
In these 4 days of hostilities, India has shown an unprecedented level of tech capabilities which were unkown till date and also a military response which no one ever expected. Firstly, We destroyed targets inside Pakistan without entering their airspace in all the four days of this short conflict. Secondly, we hit targets inside Pakistan at our time and place and will. Thirdly we completely crippled their AD systems and rendered them incapable of interfering with our air assets which did these strikes. Thirdly, we have demonstrated capability to defend our long border with Pakistan with 100% ability to shoot down anything thrown at us by Pak. No nation till has been able to shoot down 100% of missiles/drones fired at them till date. India is the first one. When Iran Attacked Israel, USA, France, UK and Jorden came to the rescue of Israel. But India did it all alone. Israel is a small country so its AD systems were rather concentrated in a very small area, But India has a border of over 2500kms with Pak and yet we achieved 100% interception. By striking Kirana Hills in a very short response time when Pak opened its tunnel mouth, we have demonstrated our capability to strike using conventional weapons to neutralise nuke weapons. We have very deep penetrator bombs and firing multiple of them in TOT=Time over Target mode, we can completely collapse the entire Kirana hills structure by making all these bombs strik at the same precise time to completely destabilise the hill structure and cause it collapse. The entire hill can be made to collapse burying anything and everything in it. As a fighter pilot I have myself done such TOT strikes with aircraft taking off from different bases yet keeping time TOT.

We have demonstrated the ability to hit anywhere at will. Now what is the future? We have not entered anykind of ceasefire with Pak, we are on hot standby which means we have all systems operational and only firing has been stopped with lid on firing switch still put down. If Pak does anything funny, we might see IAF+IN+IA getting into the game to first strike all nuke storge sites including a massive strike on Kirana hills including all nuke sites of anykind, hardened Ac shelters, Hangers, command and control centres including deeply buried centres, oil dumps, important bridges, power stations and the complete Nuke Command Authority of Pakistan including its top leadership. Which will include their Army Chief and other Generals in direct strike. We will treat them as Israel treats Hamas and its leadership. AND all this will be done using TOT strike. within just 5 seconds, all our weapons of anykind and fired from any place and for any target in Pakistan will arrive over the target within 5 seconds. Pakistan will be gone in just 5 seconds.

We will keep alive their civil leadership for post war negotiations as part of exit strategy and closure of operations to create a lasting Ceasefire. I expect Pak army to just give up their weapons and will to fight once PAF is destroyed on ground or rendered unfit to fight. The mad guys of our strike corps who have a motto of hull down, skull down, bash on regardless will be unstoppable. We might have another Pant down ceremony exceeding 600k Pak soldiers..
Sir with all due respect while Pakistan is far weaker than us idt we can underestimate to this extent them because they have backing of China and now USA. They are a beach head in the subcontinent used by USA and China and Middle East to contain India. They must be taken very seriously. Fighting them now means covertly fighting most of the entire world imo. But I have no doubt if push comes to shove Bharat will completely obliterate them.
 
there is absolutely zero guarantees that the conflict can be controlled like those earlier. Also, I have been gauging the reaction from the opposition in India. Not a good picture to be honest. Same behaviour as that post 2016 etc. Your ability to wage war is also dependent on prevailing circumstances and effective diplomacy.
Do you really know what is Pakistan is? They are nothing but Indian with circumference pen!s. Theybare scared of long brawl as much as we are towards it. If you are not believing go back to Feb, the Pakistanis had conducted rallies to release Abhinandan.
 
What did they achieve?

1965 - Bhool chook maaf. status quo ante bellum restored

1971 - we helped Pak (yes we did) by taking out their cancerous part. Free of the Bengali problem they could focus better on Kashmir. We did absolutely no lasting damage on the west.

1999 - a royal disaster cleaned by the armed forces by paying an expensive price in blood. Any impact on Pak? It helped Mush come to power and we had a standoff till almost 2004 and then 26/11 later.

So what did these wars achieve in the context of solving the Pak problem?
Six months after,when Pak fixes the destroyed AD assets,fine tuned AD & strategy,new terror recruitment you will be asking us what we have achieved in operation sindoor. If we have captured Gilgit_Baltistan,thing would be slightly different.
 
And you have absolutely no clue what the issue is neither the depth to appreciate it.

If this insurgency was allowed to fester just below the tipping point, Bangladesh would have been delayed by atleast a decade.

It would have been almost like Chechnya for Pakistan. A bottomless pit for armies, funds and careers.

The same Pakistan after the debacle would have a military thoroughly shattered, a broken economy and a population that would be rabidly anti khaki.

The human rights issues would have been enough to deny Pak western weapons for a long time.

Nuclear cooperation that allowed AQ to steal tech would have been harder.

Sometimes the obvious answer has long term ramifications. But no one can predict the future. What we can do is learn from the past.

So I m of the view - let Pak die a slow painful death. Op Sindoor and the others that will follow it are welcome. The moment Pak gets out of line slap it silly. Keep eroding the state.

It worked for the US against the USSR. No nuclear war, a pliant Russia for 20 + years. Now when Putin bared his fangs, he is grinding away his armies, his economy and his legacy against a mirage.
West gives damn when genocide happens outside Europe , in a poor country. Less the number of Indians in world (modern day India,Pakistanis & Bangladeshis) ,that much lesser filth in this world for the west (crminals & filth are not same,we are filthy people to them not criminals). Pakistan wouldn't be denied weapon from west for atrocities they have committed. That's why dictator Saddam got a blind eye from west for prolonged period, but received the wrath of west after he screwed the wealthy Kuwait.

If BD was not created,we would have nuclear tips pointing towards us in west & NE. Pakistan could have easily chickened out us in such cases if india had spineless government. Ratio of BD was the best thing happened to us,yeas we made some mistakes like not widening Siliguri corridor in 1971,but it still not big mistake.
 
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Sir with all due respect while Pakistan is far weaker than us idt we can underestimate to this extent them because they have backing of China and now USA. They are a beach head in the subcontinent used by USA and China and Middle East to contain India. They must be taken very seriously. Fighting them now means covertly fighting most of the entire world imo. But I have no doubt if push comes to shove Bharat will completely obliterate them.
Once India decides to dismantle Pakistan, no one will be able to stop us.
 
Six months after,when Pak fixes the destroyed AD assets,fine tuned AD & strategy,new terror recruitment you will be asking us what we have achieved in operation sindoor. If we have captured Gilgit_Baltistan,thing would be slightly different.
Only lasting achievement - non differentiating between Pak military and terrorist going forward.

Any terror acts now mean bye bye Pak military
 
And you have absolutely no clue what the issue is neither the depth to appreciate it.

If this insurgency was allowed to fester just below the tipping point, Bangladesh would have been delayed by atleast a decade.

It would have been almost like Chechnya for Pakistan. A bottomless pit for armies, funds and careers.

The same Pakistan after the debacle would have a military thoroughly shattered, a broken economy and a population that would be rabidly anti khaki.

The human rights issues would have been enough to deny Pak western weapons for a long time.

Nuclear cooperation that allowed AQ to steal tech would have been harder.

Sometimes the obvious answer has long term ramifications. But no one can predict the future. What we can do is learn from the past.

So I m of the view - let Pak die a slow painful death. Op Sindoor and the others that will follow it are welcome. The moment Pak gets out of line slap it silly. Keep eroding the state.

It worked for the US against the USSR. No nuclear war, a pliant Russia for 20 + years. Now when Putin bared his fangs, he is grinding away his armies, his economy and his legacy against a mirage.

Pakistan would have begun militancy in the 1970s instead of 1989+, from two sides. Regional fallout of this insurgency would have been unpredictable. We were too poor to manage refugees and foreign aid to Pakistan would have significantly increased the threat to India in the long term.

Pakistan retaining sovereignty over BD due to fighting a sustained insurgency would have made it harder for India to intervene in the later years, when the situation would have become the new normal. In the meantime, they would have stolen BD's resources and used it to develop their own military faster than they actually did. They would have turned BD into a military fortress too, making it impossible for India to invade. Our invasion worked 'cause Pak were too weak in BD.

Human rights don't exist for Pakistan's enemies. We already see that in Balochistan and Pashtunistan today. Pakistan's importance to the West was so great that they would have turned a blind eye to whatever the Pakistanis did. And this was proven by the fact that Pak was not punished for their genocide in BD.

Furthermore, the SU wanted a win after the Sino-Soviet split and provided full backing. There was no guarantee this would have come after 10 years.

We couldn't afford maintaining 3 fronts. We wanted to deal with PoK after BD, but couldn't because we did not have the military strength to fight on two fronts simultaneously, and that's our fault. So this situation allowed us to completely eliminate one front, and it's stayed that way for 50 years, and will probably continue to stay that way for many more decades.

Did you really want to fight militancy in Kashmir, BD, Punjab, the Naxalites, and the NE insurgency at the same time? We were lucky to have 3 problems instead of 5. Removing ISI from BD, the NE, and the Maoist belt was the best thing that could happen to us.

Liberating BD dropped Pakistan's population and GDP by half, eliminated one front, allowed us to make money off of it while limiting the NE insurgency. And when the Naxalites gained power, ISI wasn't around to foment more trouble, they were busy in Punjab. Once Punjab ended, Kashmir began. In the meantime, we removed the communist power base in WB. Then we put down Kashmir. While Naxalites rose in power, we put down the NE insurgency. And now we are eliminating the Naxalite threat. All this 'cause BD was peaceful.

As for today's Pakistan, sure, we would like to see Pak die a slow death without significant cost to India. But there's always the possibility of foreign aid preventing that from happening. That $50B or $100B package can ruin things quickly. So a quick, guaranteed death is the best outcome. What comes next can be managed with a fly swatter or a hammer as the situation dictates. The US was clueless about the SU's demise, and it was impossible for anyone to save the SU, but Pak can be saved.

If BD stops being peaceful, at least we will not have to deal with Punjab, NE, and Naxalites simultaneously. Kashmir may have been put down, unless Pak wants to hasten its demise, so we have achieved a new normal here. Of course, any BD-sponsored attacks can also be linked to the ISI, and that can be dealt with militarily too.

Firepower is the answer against military threats, not time.
 
Gotta be realistic. For Su-57, the Ukraine war has to end, there's no two ways about this. Plenty of defense deals with them are on hold 'cause of it. The war's given Putin dictatorial powers, so it's unlikely that he will end it anytime soon. Without an unrealistic pro-Russian ceasefire, it could take until 2030 to end.

As for the F-35, it's underpowered. It needs the engine upgrade (2029+) just to operate adequately in plains, never mind mountains. Post-upgrade too, it will be adequate over Punjab but underpowered in the mountains.

Best case the Russians and Americans bring their jets to compete in MRFA, then we get to buy time due to the parallel nature of development and testing that's allowed under MRFA. We can skip the lengthy FMS process too.

Any such stop-gap purchase wouldn't suit our requirements to the T. It'll just have to be the closest possible thing.

Only thing that would match up perfectly (no matter what the requirement) would be our own designs. But they are far away. Gotta make do till then.

AMCA is not meant to compete with J-20B/C. It's meant to kill J-20, J-XX etc. Compete and kill are not the same things.

Same rules for LCA and MRFA too.

Swedish doctrine: Can the Gripen compete with a Flanker? No. Can the Gripen kill the Flanker? Yes.

That's what I meant by hold its own against J-20B/C.

We gotta wait and watch if the IAF plans to reassess MRFA or continue with it after Sindoor. If they continue, then they are not that concerned about J-20, J-35 etc.

Continuation can also be if it turns out that we've no real choice due to geopolitical reasons.

RCS is just one small aspect, like one of the fingers required to make a fist. The IAF has chosen to develop the other fingers first, starting with information.

Information is the real battlespace. Everything else is secondary to it. Information is what determines whether something is stealth or not.

Of course. However, the Chinese are developing their own networked battlespace & combat cloud as well. Given their resources, it's likely to be deployed in its fully operational capacity much sooner than our own. And cuz they achieved much higher levels of indigenization across the board, theirs is likely to work a lot more seamlessly - at least out of the box.

Ours might yet be dependent on getting a lot of foreign approvals & integration requests e.g. I'm surprised that Rafale still isn't using an SDR.
 
What Nato did with Ukraine is what's happening in Bangladesh to us.
Bloody Non elected dictator/ care taker is screwing with us.

Time to act , prove to the world our bottom line has been crossed. A country doing well has been screwed by foreign designs.

Where are the UN et all..
We need to be offensive in diplomatic Circles.

And reinforce Democracy in Bangladesh.

We ll see who is going to act against that

Time for India to raise to its responsibility.
 
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